EVs and In Gear Acceleration vs ICE
Discussion
fatjon said:
wormus said:
No, you should definitely keep the car that nobody’s interested in and keep reminding them how “really fast” it is. Women will want you, men will want to be you, just like Steve McQueen.
Thanks for the advice. Are you sure women are getting damp at the sight of your tyre smoking Steve McQueen impression farting its way down the road? Sorry to pee on your firework but I learned long ago that what they are really thinking is “look at that pillock in his penis extension” while laughing about what it’s making up for.Edited by wormus on Thursday 28th March 17:42
It's not that women don't like fast cars, I think they just don't like try hard 'look at me' fast cars. Unless the car in question is very obviously worth several hundred thousand pounds - which would strongly suggest you have the wealth to pay off their mortgage, which might be OK
wormus said:
SVR? That must be pretty terrifying?
No, just the “normal” Autobiography Dynamic.DMS changed the supercharger pulley and re-mapped it for under 2,000. It’s absolutely brilliant.
I probably ought to upgrade the brakes at some point though, they aren’t really up to stopping 2.5 tonnes from 189mph…
TheDeuce said:
eldar said:
Forgetting the 1000BHP super cars, bikes and track day cars, what about the vast majority?
Take the average 150BHP family car. Then take the equivalent EV version. For me, the instant and linear throttle response to the speed limit is a game changer. Other aspects like braking and handling pretty much the same in both.
Add on drive charging, full tank less than £3.00, and the average user is convinced.
This is progress, and improvements are continuous. Price equality is approaching rapidly.
I think price parity is already achieved - once running costs are factored in.Take the average 150BHP family car. Then take the equivalent EV version. For me, the instant and linear throttle response to the speed limit is a game changer. Other aspects like braking and handling pretty much the same in both.
Add on drive charging, full tank less than £3.00, and the average user is convinced.
This is progress, and improvements are continuous. Price equality is approaching rapidly.
I didn't agree that for the average driver who just wants 'a car' EV is already a great solution. The much talked about range and charging aspects actually won't even be factor for most drivers usage.
But there is a lot of misinformation around, which combined with suspicion of anything new will make it a long and slow process to get the masses to adopt. However, it's underway and happening at least as fast as it needs to.
I don’t really buy the cheaper thing. You can say get a ford
Puma for 300ish a month. Petrol £60 , then tax £150 . Insurance is most likely bad news either way. Not sure what ev would be pcp. at those sort of figures.
Agree if you want a bigger car or do big mileage then things swings in favour of evs.
Puma for 300ish a month. Petrol £60 , then tax £150 . Insurance is most likely bad news either way. Not sure what ev would be pcp. at those sort of figures.
Agree if you want a bigger car or do big mileage then things swings in favour of evs.
But it’s also that for a lot of people, EVs are just more pleasurable to drive.
I know that will be utter heresy to many on here, however while I still like my 911, my first though often when I het in it is ‘ for this thing is annoyingly noisy and a bit agricultural’ and I yearn for the seamless power and instant response of the EV.
We’ve become conditioned to accept flaws and imperfections as desirable traits and once you start thinking outside the box it’s not at all clear that petrol cars are even more engaging or rewarding to drive in my experience, they’re just different.
The psychology of desire is very odd, but you can be sure that within a generation, desire for petrol (let alone diesel) cars will have all but vanished.
I know that will be utter heresy to many on here, however while I still like my 911, my first though often when I het in it is ‘ for this thing is annoyingly noisy and a bit agricultural’ and I yearn for the seamless power and instant response of the EV.
We’ve become conditioned to accept flaws and imperfections as desirable traits and once you start thinking outside the box it’s not at all clear that petrol cars are even more engaging or rewarding to drive in my experience, they’re just different.
The psychology of desire is very odd, but you can be sure that within a generation, desire for petrol (let alone diesel) cars will have all but vanished.
To be fair if you buy a car specifically to enjoy the mechanical feel of driving a machine you probably wouldn't choose a 911 or pretty much any other 1.5+ tonne new car.
As for having an electric car for that purpose, you may as well save some cash and drive around on your Playstation. They're great A to B tools but about as much fun as going on a date with a toothbrush for a B road blast.
As for having an electric car for that purpose, you may as well save some cash and drive around on your Playstation. They're great A to B tools but about as much fun as going on a date with a toothbrush for a B road blast.
Forester1965 said:
To be fair if you buy a car specifically to enjoy the mechanical feel of driving a machine you probably wouldn't choose a 911 or pretty much any other 1.5+ tonne new car.
As for having an electric car for that purpose, you may as well save some cash and drive around on your Playstation. They're great A to B tools but about as much fun as going on a date with a toothbrush for a B road blast.
The current EVs on the market are not aimed at the small number of overwhelming male car enthusiasts. They are aimed at the 98% of the population that require a form of personal transportation that will shift them and there family to wherever they need to go to live their day to day lives. Blasting down a B road is an irrelevance in this regardAs for having an electric car for that purpose, you may as well save some cash and drive around on your Playstation. They're great A to B tools but about as much fun as going on a date with a toothbrush for a B road blast.
The first EVs were expensive and unaffordable for the many, natural for the adoption of a new technology. Now we have more affordable cars available but still not many at the really affordable end of the market. This is more of a priority than fun/toy cars. Nonetheless they will come within the next few years and by the time it really matters in another decade we can hope that battery technology will have advanced from where we are today.
Who knows maybe the Boxter of 2035 may not be too dissimilar in weight from the 1400kg version we have today.
The question maybe in another decade or so that the general public maybe less keen on tolerating people blasting down those B roads.
ashenfie said:
I don’t really buy the cheaper thing. You can say get a ford
Puma for 300ish a month. Petrol £60 , then tax £150 . Insurance is most likely bad news either way. Not sure what ev would be pcp. at those sort of figures.
Agree if you want a bigger car or do big mileage then things swings in favour of evs.
There is obviously a tipping point but our EV is about £550 a month including tax (£0 for now) insurance, tyres, maintenance etc. If you add maintenance and insurance to your figures, the costs are much closer than it seems and that is for a very good spec £60k+ car. Puma for 300ish a month. Petrol £60 , then tax £150 . Insurance is most likely bad news either way. Not sure what ev would be pcp. at those sort of figures.
Agree if you want a bigger car or do big mileage then things swings in favour of evs.
The higher the mileage, the more it favours the EV up to the point where more charging is done at public chargers. We ended up being almost the same monthly cost for a 6 year old diesel qashqai on PCP as we are now on the EV- not cheaper in our case but more car for the same money.
Nomme de Plum said:
The question maybe in another decade or so that the general public maybe less keen on tolerating people blasting down those B roads.
That's kind of the point. In a small, light sports car with hydraulic steering and a manual gearbox, you don't need a lot of power and you don't need to go quickly to have fun. Forester1965 said:
That's kind of the point. In a small, light sports car with hydraulic steering and a manual gearbox, you don't need a lot of power and you don't need to go quickly to have fun.
100% agree.However, there is also absolutely no reason we need tens of millions of these cars, nor any reason why they need to be new cars.
Forester1965 said:
Nomme de Plum said:
The question maybe in another decade or so that the general public maybe less keen on tolerating people blasting down those B roads.
That's kind of the point. In a small, light sports car with hydraulic steering and a manual gearbox, you don't need a lot of power and you don't need to go quickly to have fun. 740EVTORQUES said:
Forester1965 said:
Absolutely. To put it into context, I was originally commenting on someone preferring their EV because they found their 911 agricultural.
For a A to B box, electric takes some beating.
Exactly and for real weekend fun you need an MX5, Caterham, Elise or similarFor a A to B box, electric takes some beating.
Firstly it’s nice to have the option to take the family out, my kids love the noise and the wife likes the classy old style of car. I have a W124 500e and the woofle at low revs, snarly as it passes 3500rpm and half ghee speed surge in top are all huge positives in feeling good. It’s nice at low speed, surprises people who just see an old taxi and has a lovely solid feel without being a huge car.
All cars have their place and all can be enjoyed. It’s just a bit sad when people say that others are wrong all the time. I drove a mk1 MX5 in well kept condition and found it to be the most overrated car I’d driven at the time and a 106 GTI made it look silly in the fun stakes. It doesn’t mean I’m right it just means it wasn’t as enjoyable for me.
Dave!
Howitzer said:
740EVTORQUES said:
Forester1965 said:
Absolutely. To put it into context, I was originally commenting on someone preferring their EV because they found their 911 agricultural.
For a A to B box, electric takes some beating.
Exactly and for real weekend fun you need an MX5, Caterham, Elise or similarFor a A to B box, electric takes some beating.
Firstly it’s nice to have the option to take the family out, my kids love the noise and the wife likes the classy old style of car. I have a W124 500e and the woofle at low revs, snarly as it passes 3500rpm and half ghee speed surge in top are all huge positives in feeling good. It’s nice at low speed, surprises people who just see an old taxi and has a lovely solid feel without being a huge car.
All cars have their place and all can be enjoyed. It’s just a bit sad when people say that others are wrong all the time. I drove a mk1 MX5 in well kept condition and found it to be the most overrated car I’d driven at the time and a 106 GTI made it look silly in the fun stakes. It doesn’t mean I’m right it just means it wasn’t as enjoyable for me.
Dave!
My daughter refused to be dropped off at school in my old V8 BMW though. She’d get out at the end of the road and walk the last bit rather than be seen in a gas guzzler. I suspect this attitude amongst youngsters is a bit more widespread!
We’ve offered to buy her her own car now she’s passed her test, but she’s happy with an e-bike and Uber plus trains for when she needs them.
Times are definitely changing.
740EVTORQUES said:
Howitzer said:
740EVTORQUES said:
Forester1965 said:
Absolutely. To put it into context, I was originally commenting on someone preferring their EV because they found their 911 agricultural.
For a A to B box, electric takes some beating.
Exactly and for real weekend fun you need an MX5, Caterham, Elise or similarFor a A to B box, electric takes some beating.
Firstly it’s nice to have the option to take the family out, my kids love the noise and the wife likes the classy old style of car. I have a W124 500e and the woofle at low revs, snarly as it passes 3500rpm and half ghee speed surge in top are all huge positives in feeling good. It’s nice at low speed, surprises people who just see an old taxi and has a lovely solid feel without being a huge car.
All cars have their place and all can be enjoyed. It’s just a bit sad when people say that others are wrong all the time. I drove a mk1 MX5 in well kept condition and found it to be the most overrated car I’d driven at the time and a 106 GTI made it look silly in the fun stakes. It doesn’t mean I’m right it just means it wasn’t as enjoyable for me.
Dave!
My daughter refused to be dropped off at school in my old V8 BMW though. She’d get out at the end of the road and walk the last bit rather than be seen in a gas guzzler. I suspect this attitude amongst youngsters is a bit more widespread!
We’ve offered to buy her her own car now she’s passed her test, but she’s happy with an e-bike and Uber plus trains for when she needs them.
Times are definitely changing.
Electric is seen as cool nowadays I think(whereas in my head I see electric as being dull mostly), and the internal combustion engine is generally seen as the enemy now I think for most folk in comparison.
cerb4.5lee said:
I think it just depends on how you're brought up, and both my daughters aged 8 and 16 still love cars with engines. However I guess that I'm to blame for that though! Neither of them would entertain anything electric, although I definitely do agree that times are changing for sure though.
Electric is seen as cool nowadays I think(whereas in my head I see electric as being dull mostly), and the internal combustion engine is generally seen as the enemy now I think for most folk in comparison.
I think you’re overestimating how much influence parents have. I always had a garage with at least a Caterham (which I built), a mid engined sportscar plus a V6 or V8 coupe as a daily driver, it’s more to do with peers and how they as a group view the world. As a generation they’re very switched on to environmental issues.Electric is seen as cool nowadays I think(whereas in my head I see electric as being dull mostly), and the internal combustion engine is generally seen as the enemy now I think for most folk in comparison.
After driving my EV all week, I love jumping into my civic type R. Its the opposite of the tesla but no way would I like swap it round and daily the civic and tesla for the weekend.
EV are perfect for the commute or as a daily driver, as it basically drives itself. My civic on the other hand is a fun car as it’s a 2.0l petrol that revs to 8.2k and has one of the best gearbox’s I’ve had the pleasure to use. You have to drive it.
EV are perfect for the commute or as a daily driver, as it basically drives itself. My civic on the other hand is a fun car as it’s a 2.0l petrol that revs to 8.2k and has one of the best gearbox’s I’ve had the pleasure to use. You have to drive it.
740EVTORQUES said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I think it just depends on how you're brought up, and both my daughters aged 8 and 16 still love cars with engines. However I guess that I'm to blame for that though! Neither of them would entertain anything electric, although I definitely do agree that times are changing for sure though.
Electric is seen as cool nowadays I think(whereas in my head I see electric as being dull mostly), and the internal combustion engine is generally seen as the enemy now I think for most folk in comparison.
I think you’re overestimating how much influence parents have. I always had a garage with at least a Caterham (which I built), a mid engined sportscar plus a V6 or V8 coupe as a daily driver, it’s more to do with peers and how they as a group view the world. As a generation they’re very switched on to environmental issues.Electric is seen as cool nowadays I think(whereas in my head I see electric as being dull mostly), and the internal combustion engine is generally seen as the enemy now I think for most folk in comparison.
She doesn't seem to give a monkeys about the environment for some reason, but don't get me wrong though, a big part of me wished that she did in fairness for sure.
I thought that they might teach her stuff about the environment at school for example, because the environment seems to be a lot more topical than it was when I went to school back in the 70's in comparison.
cerb4.5lee said:
740EVTORQUES said:
cerb4.5lee said:
I think it just depends on how you're brought up, and both my daughters aged 8 and 16 still love cars with engines. However I guess that I'm to blame for that though! Neither of them would entertain anything electric, although I definitely do agree that times are changing for sure though.
Electric is seen as cool nowadays I think(whereas in my head I see electric as being dull mostly), and the internal combustion engine is generally seen as the enemy now I think for most folk in comparison.
I think you’re overestimating how much influence parents have. I always had a garage with at least a Caterham (which I built), a mid engined sportscar plus a V6 or V8 coupe as a daily driver, it’s more to do with peers and how they as a group view the world. As a generation they’re very switched on to environmental issues.Electric is seen as cool nowadays I think(whereas in my head I see electric as being dull mostly), and the internal combustion engine is generally seen as the enemy now I think for most folk in comparison.
She doesn't seem to give a monkeys about the environment for some reason, but don't get me wrong though, a big part of me wished that she did in fairness for sure.
I thought that they might teach her stuff about the environment at school for example, because the environment seems to be a lot more topical than it was when I went to school back in the 70's in comparison.
In my case my 13 soon to be 14 Granddaughter has insisted on an EV in just a few months. She lives mid USA which is largely Trucks and huge SuVs.
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