Which EV to pick?
Discussion
jocosta said:
Hi all,
I currently own a 2015 420d xDrive Grand coupe. But family is getting bigger (2nd child due soon) and hence I need a slightly bigger car.
Although I love driving my Grand coupe, I want to go EV as I've looked into the numerous benefits there are to grab from it.
I've set myself a budget of 20k and having had a browse I've shortlisted a number of options:
2017/2018 Tesla model S - Fast car. I like the looks of it, although it is a hatchback it has a big boot. Technology is still not too old, when compared to alternative EVs. Great charging network!
Jaguar I Pace - can get a good deal for the money. I like the idea of moving to an 'SUV- but this looks like a rather small SUV - and all the feedback I see online is about how nice it is to drive it and the incar tech is not bad...for Jaguar standards. But then I came across the Audi e-Tron.
Audi E-Tron - I just love how it looks - both the exterior and more so the interior, it comes with air suspensions as standard. However, reviews state the drive is poor, not fun. But I wonder how much would I notice it?!
Having come from a 420xDrive, I have to admit I like a car that drives well. However, I wonder whether I would really give it much thought, if I drove the E-Tron around with my 4 people family around the country.
What do you guys think?! Any other suggestions?
Cheers
JC
I've had an 430d GC, the GC 4's are great cars and people underestimate how practical they are for a coupe - better than the 3 series easily! I then had an iPace, which is night and day better as a drivers car than the e-tron. I really, really, miss my iPace! Easily as good dynamically as the 4 GC.I currently own a 2015 420d xDrive Grand coupe. But family is getting bigger (2nd child due soon) and hence I need a slightly bigger car.
Although I love driving my Grand coupe, I want to go EV as I've looked into the numerous benefits there are to grab from it.
I've set myself a budget of 20k and having had a browse I've shortlisted a number of options:
2017/2018 Tesla model S - Fast car. I like the looks of it, although it is a hatchback it has a big boot. Technology is still not too old, when compared to alternative EVs. Great charging network!
Jaguar I Pace - can get a good deal for the money. I like the idea of moving to an 'SUV- but this looks like a rather small SUV - and all the feedback I see online is about how nice it is to drive it and the incar tech is not bad...for Jaguar standards. But then I came across the Audi e-Tron.
Audi E-Tron - I just love how it looks - both the exterior and more so the interior, it comes with air suspensions as standard. However, reviews state the drive is poor, not fun. But I wonder how much would I notice it?!
Having come from a 420xDrive, I have to admit I like a car that drives well. However, I wonder whether I would really give it much thought, if I drove the E-Tron around with my 4 people family around the country.
What do you guys think?! Any other suggestions?
Cheers
JC
Hence, because I couldn't make the numbers work for a new iPace lease last time I switched, I ended up back in another 4 GC.. the i4 M50, which feels heavier than the old 430 GC (because, it is), but actually does corner harder/faster etc, all the normal performance EV stuff.
The obvious and safe answer for you is a model S Tesla, they're surprisingly large inside and will do all you need and feel sporty to drive, until you try and push them dynamically. Although if you can make the iPace work size-wise, it's a better all rounder as SUV, luxury, looks and can actually attack a b-road and put a smile on your face
Thanks all for sharing your hands-on based experience and suggestions. All very valuable input.
My heart was on the etron, specially as I wanted an SUV, and if I went for the Etron it would be for the 55 as well for the mileage and 150 miles does not sound impressive. Although I believe I'd be happy with the interior space, if riskyj says that the given outer size doesn't necessarily translates in a reasonable space in the interior it makes one reconsider, specially as my drive might just be big enough accommodate for the size of this car as well as the wife's car. Additionally if you don't get a lot on the basic/non-specd my budget will probably not be enough for a worthwhile one.
Went through some Jaguar forums and it looks like I Pace owners have been experiencing a lot of challenges with parts shortages and lack of experienced garages to fix issues they come across. So good car, but some common issues that if you come across you might be without a car for a long while. So might steer clear.
Looked at Polestar 2 looks great but I am not very keen on it due to some little intricacies that put me off.
Genesis looks small, and out of my budget.
I do agree that charging infrastructure has come a long way and, although Tesla is definitely better, I don't think charging it would be a challenge regardless of the EV we went for.
Due to all I have heard and seen about Tesla, be it their time in the this field, their customer support and charging network I feel very tempted to opt for them. Model 3 I am not just very fond of the looks, it probably would grow in me but just too unsure. If I had the budget I'd go into Model Y or X. This leaves only Model S, which I think looks rather nice, just won't get as much warranty, if any.
Not a big fan of leases as you end up with nothing to show for your money at then end of the lease... looked into that so many times and just cannot go over that fact.
So unsure!
My heart was on the etron, specially as I wanted an SUV, and if I went for the Etron it would be for the 55 as well for the mileage and 150 miles does not sound impressive. Although I believe I'd be happy with the interior space, if riskyj says that the given outer size doesn't necessarily translates in a reasonable space in the interior it makes one reconsider, specially as my drive might just be big enough accommodate for the size of this car as well as the wife's car. Additionally if you don't get a lot on the basic/non-specd my budget will probably not be enough for a worthwhile one.
Went through some Jaguar forums and it looks like I Pace owners have been experiencing a lot of challenges with parts shortages and lack of experienced garages to fix issues they come across. So good car, but some common issues that if you come across you might be without a car for a long while. So might steer clear.
Looked at Polestar 2 looks great but I am not very keen on it due to some little intricacies that put me off.
Genesis looks small, and out of my budget.
I do agree that charging infrastructure has come a long way and, although Tesla is definitely better, I don't think charging it would be a challenge regardless of the EV we went for.
Due to all I have heard and seen about Tesla, be it their time in the this field, their customer support and charging network I feel very tempted to opt for them. Model 3 I am not just very fond of the looks, it probably would grow in me but just too unsure. If I had the budget I'd go into Model Y or X. This leaves only Model S, which I think looks rather nice, just won't get as much warranty, if any.
Not a big fan of leases as you end up with nothing to show for your money at then end of the lease... looked into that so many times and just cannot go over that fact.
So unsure!
jocosta said:
Thanks all for sharing your hands-on based experience and suggestions. All very valuable input.
My heart was on the etron, specially as I wanted an SUV, and if I went for the Etron it would be for the 55 as well for the mileage and 150 miles does not sound impressive. Although I believe I'd be happy with the interior space, if riskyj says that the given outer size doesn't necessarily translates in a reasonable space in the interior it makes one reconsider, specially as my drive might just be big enough accommodate for the size of this car as well as the wife's car. Additionally if you don't get a lot on the basic/non-specd my budget will probably not be enough for a worthwhile one.
Went through some Jaguar forums and it looks like I Pace owners have been experiencing a lot of challenges with parts shortages and lack of experienced garages to fix issues they come across. So good car, but some common issues that if you come across you might be without a car for a long while. So might steer clear.
Looked at Polestar 2 looks great but I am not very keen on it due to some little intricacies that put me off.
Genesis looks small, and out of my budget.
I do agree that charging infrastructure has come a long way and, although Tesla is definitely better, I don't think charging it would be a challenge regardless of the EV we went for.
Due to all I have heard and seen about Tesla, be it their time in the this field, their customer support and charging network I feel very tempted to opt for them. Model 3 I am not just very fond of the looks, it probably would grow in me but just too unsure. If I had the budget I'd go into Model Y or X. This leaves only Model S, which I think looks rather nice, just won't get as much warranty, if any.
Not a big fan of leases as you end up with nothing to show for your money at then end of the lease... looked into that so many times and just cannot go over that fact.
So unsure!
The model 3 is too small, compared to other cars you've already said might be too small. It's also not a hatchback so that's 50% of the practicality of any car gone..My heart was on the etron, specially as I wanted an SUV, and if I went for the Etron it would be for the 55 as well for the mileage and 150 miles does not sound impressive. Although I believe I'd be happy with the interior space, if riskyj says that the given outer size doesn't necessarily translates in a reasonable space in the interior it makes one reconsider, specially as my drive might just be big enough accommodate for the size of this car as well as the wife's car. Additionally if you don't get a lot on the basic/non-specd my budget will probably not be enough for a worthwhile one.
Went through some Jaguar forums and it looks like I Pace owners have been experiencing a lot of challenges with parts shortages and lack of experienced garages to fix issues they come across. So good car, but some common issues that if you come across you might be without a car for a long while. So might steer clear.
Looked at Polestar 2 looks great but I am not very keen on it due to some little intricacies that put me off.
Genesis looks small, and out of my budget.
I do agree that charging infrastructure has come a long way and, although Tesla is definitely better, I don't think charging it would be a challenge regardless of the EV we went for.
Due to all I have heard and seen about Tesla, be it their time in the this field, their customer support and charging network I feel very tempted to opt for them. Model 3 I am not just very fond of the looks, it probably would grow in me but just too unsure. If I had the budget I'd go into Model Y or X. This leaves only Model S, which I think looks rather nice, just won't get as much warranty, if any.
Not a big fan of leases as you end up with nothing to show for your money at then end of the lease... looked into that so many times and just cannot go over that fact.
So unsure!
The leasing thing often compares favourably to purchase in terms of what you're left with, but for newer cars than you're looking at.
Tbh, I think you've correctly whittled it down to the model S. Keep it in a belts and braces aftermarket warranty - not as expensive as you might think.
You'll be saving thousands a year on fuel and maintenance anyway I imagine, so whatever breaks or falls off, you will probably have covered the expense by the time you encounter such misfortune!
ajap1979 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the Tesla network largely constrained to the motorway network?
Well where I am the only Tesca supercharger is on the services on the M1 so really not very practical at all.There are tonnes of other public charging places, including 3 BP Pulsa chargers about 0.1 miles away.
So the Tesla makes little sense to me.
barryrs said:
I was surprised by the space in the Ioniq 5 and a 22 plate car is getting very close to budget.
Don't discount the EV6 either, they're getting close to your budget.R§remember that Hyundai, KIA and Porsche's all have 800v charging which makes them very rapid on a DC hub (Tesla are rapid at 400v as well). That's a big advantage if you need to charge publicly, 18 minutes 20-80% IIRC.
TheDrownedApe said:
ajap1979 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the Tesla network largely constrained to the motorway network?
mainly yes, but that doesn't stop you using the myriad of other chargersAnd in terms of supercharger availability that's always been dependent on where you live anyway. For example, in the North of England there are next to no Tesla superchargers once you get beyond Leeds and Manchester so the advantage of the Tesla network in that (large) geographic area has always been limited if you want/need access to rapid charging.
Of course that doesn't mean you shouldn't buy a Tesla - there's still much to recommend them - but (IMO) their traditional trump card of superior public charging isn't what it was and over time any advantage they still have will be eroded further.
jonathan_roberts said:
ajap1979 said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the Tesla network largely constrained to the motorway network?
Are you suggesting there isn’t a Tesla charger within 250miles of your house? I recently took the notion to replace my i3S Rex having had it for nearly 3 years. I was convinced that I wasn't going back to ICE. My criteria was it needed to be a hatchback for the dog, a bit of refinement, with real buttons for key controls and at least 200 miles winter range.
My list was:-
Mach-e - this was actually the car I really wanted but was still too far out of my budget.
ID3 - didn't like the controls and spartan interior
Cupra Born - really like these, but same controls as the ID3, in fact this made me discount all VWs
Hyundai Ioniq 5 - Loved the exterior styling of these but was so disappointed with the interior. A much bigger car than I was expecting
Kia EV6 - an awful lot to like about these. Was a bit out of budget but I took a test drive and it was just bland. Not bad, just uninspiring. The safety controls, lane keep assist etc also felt a little intrusive, but I could probably gotten used to them.
iPace - like the OP, I spent a long time reading the owner's forums which are filled with doom and gloom. I do feel for the owners who have had issues but many of the issues do appear to be older cars (not exclusively). When asked there are also many many owners who have had no issues and rave about the car. I decided to bite the bullet and get a fully loaded HSE, slightly higher mileage, but newer, Jag management owned car, which fitted my budget. Bought via the main dealer with the 2 year warranty and Jag assist. Only time will tell if I will live to regret it but so far it is the best driving experience I have had for a very long time.
Good luck in your quest!
My list was:-
Mach-e - this was actually the car I really wanted but was still too far out of my budget.
ID3 - didn't like the controls and spartan interior
Cupra Born - really like these, but same controls as the ID3, in fact this made me discount all VWs
Hyundai Ioniq 5 - Loved the exterior styling of these but was so disappointed with the interior. A much bigger car than I was expecting
Kia EV6 - an awful lot to like about these. Was a bit out of budget but I took a test drive and it was just bland. Not bad, just uninspiring. The safety controls, lane keep assist etc also felt a little intrusive, but I could probably gotten used to them.
iPace - like the OP, I spent a long time reading the owner's forums which are filled with doom and gloom. I do feel for the owners who have had issues but many of the issues do appear to be older cars (not exclusively). When asked there are also many many owners who have had no issues and rave about the car. I decided to bite the bullet and get a fully loaded HSE, slightly higher mileage, but newer, Jag management owned car, which fitted my budget. Bought via the main dealer with the 2 year warranty and Jag assist. Only time will tell if I will live to regret it but so far it is the best driving experience I have had for a very long time.
Good luck in your quest!
ajap1979 said:
Not at all, I’m simply suggesting that your geographic location and use case means the advantages of the Supercharger network could be negligible, and of not enough benefit to base your choice of car on.
I couldn’t care less about the Supercharger network within 200km of my house(s), because I can charge at home in Geneva or Burgundy (150km apart).What interests me is the provision going west/north towards Paris, south/east to Italy, and more relevantly south/west towards Spain, as mid next week we’re driving to Barcelona and onto Valencia.
I’ve had an EV for the past 3.5 years, regularly do long trips to France/Italy/Germany/UK, and wouldn’t trust any non-Tesla public charging. Life’s too short and the Model 3/Y, though not thrilling, are decent enough and reasonably-priced vehicles. All IMNSFHO, of course
Michael_B said:
ajap1979 said:
Not at all, I’m simply suggesting that your geographic location and use case means the advantages of the Supercharger network could be negligible, and of not enough benefit to base your choice of car on.
I couldn’t care less about the Supercharger network within 200km of my house(s), because I can charge at home in Geneva or Burgundy (150km apart).What interests me is the provision going west/north towards Paris, south/east to Italy, and more relevantly south/west towards Spain, as mid next week we’re driving to Barcelona and onto Valencia.
I’ve had an EV for the past 3.5 years, regularly do long trips to France/Italy/Germany/UK, and wouldn’t trust any non-Tesla public charging. Life’s too short and the Model 3/Y, though not thrilling, are decent enough and reasonably-priced vehicles. All IMNSFHO, of course
ajap1979 said:
Thanks for agreeing with my sentiments.
I do, in terms of use case (i.e. travelling further away than half the car’s range from a home charger.) But the ‘motorway network’ covers most inhabited areas of Europe, so the fact that Tesla Superchargers are (mostly) near/on motorways is hardly a limitation, more a recognition of where there are the most useful to those out of range from their home charger.Or are people now mad enough to buy an EV without being able to charge at home?
We have a Tesla Model Y, which is a functional fugly thing but has all the advantages listed above. My only two gripes with it are (1) that the auto wipers are beyond crap, and (2) on long journeys the seats give me awful back ache. I’m talking 200 mile minimum but after 3-4 hours they’re unbearable. Might be just me, but coming from the armchairs in a Disco 4 they’re a mare. Even my 2001 Defender is better. I don’t know whether the S or 3 has better seats but maybe worth checking. However I’ve never seen anyone else mention this so it maybe that it just doesn’t suit my short arse frame! We’ve done 36,000 miles in the Y in the last 15 months and it’s been consistently uncomfortable. Other than those two issues it’s a great white goods vehicle.
bernie_eccle said:
I recently took the notion to replace my i3S Rex having had it for nearly 3 years. I was convinced that I wasn't going back to ICE. My criteria was it needed to be a hatchback for the dog, a bit of refinement, with real buttons for key controls and at least 200 miles winter range.
My list was:-
Mach-e - this was actually the car I really wanted but was still too far out of my budget.
ID3 - didn't like the controls and spartan interior
Cupra Born - really like these, but same controls as the ID3, in fact this made me discount all VWs
Hyundai Ioniq 5 - Loved the exterior styling of these but was so disappointed with the interior. A much bigger car than I was expecting
Kia EV6 - an awful lot to like about these. Was a bit out of budget but I took a test drive and it was just bland. Not bad, just uninspiring. The safety controls, lane keep assist etc also felt a little intrusive, but I could probably gotten used to them.
iPace - like the OP, I spent a long time reading the owner's forums which are filled with doom and gloom. I do feel for the owners who have had issues but many of the issues do appear to be older cars (not exclusively). When asked there are also many many owners who have had no issues and rave about the car. I decided to bite the bullet and get a fully loaded HSE, slightly higher mileage, but newer, Jag management owned car, which fitted my budget. Bought via the main dealer with the 2 year warranty and Jag assist. Only time will tell if I will live to regret it but so far it is the best driving experience I have had for a very long time.
Good luck in your quest!
Your story is not unusual - when you look at the used EV options the most exciting great value car is always an iPace. And they're simply excellent!My list was:-
Mach-e - this was actually the car I really wanted but was still too far out of my budget.
ID3 - didn't like the controls and spartan interior
Cupra Born - really like these, but same controls as the ID3, in fact this made me discount all VWs
Hyundai Ioniq 5 - Loved the exterior styling of these but was so disappointed with the interior. A much bigger car than I was expecting
Kia EV6 - an awful lot to like about these. Was a bit out of budget but I took a test drive and it was just bland. Not bad, just uninspiring. The safety controls, lane keep assist etc also felt a little intrusive, but I could probably gotten used to them.
iPace - like the OP, I spent a long time reading the owner's forums which are filled with doom and gloom. I do feel for the owners who have had issues but many of the issues do appear to be older cars (not exclusively). When asked there are also many many owners who have had no issues and rave about the car. I decided to bite the bullet and get a fully loaded HSE, slightly higher mileage, but newer, Jag management owned car, which fitted my budget. Bought via the main dealer with the 2 year warranty and Jag assist. Only time will tell if I will live to regret it but so far it is the best driving experience I have had for a very long time.
Good luck in your quest!
I'm sure others that have their first EV will think whatever their EV is, is also great. But put them side by side, as a car fan car, the iPace is just out there on its own, you can sense it was designed by car lovers handed a blank sheet of paper.
It's such a shame JLR can't make good of simple fixes - but I strongly suspect most owners won't ever have an issue to begin with.
Great car, great choice!
w1bbles said:
I don’t know whether the S or 3 has better seats but maybe worth checking. However I’ve never seen anyone else mention this so it maybe that it just doesn’t suit my short arse frame! We’ve done 36,000 miles in the Y in the last 15 months and it’s been consistently uncomfortable. Other than those two issues it’s a great white goods vehicle.
I did 60k km over two years in a Model 3, which at 6ft I found to OK but less comfortable than my A4 Allroad; certainly glad to stop every 1.5-2hrs and walk around. After 35k km in a Y I find it vastly better than the Model 3 for driver comfort. Oh, and the wipers are indeed utter rubbish.Just returned from that 10-day trip to Altea (between Valencia and Alicante.), with overnight stops in Avignon/Fitou/Barcelona on the way down, and Collioure/Louhans on the way back to Geneva.
2’550 km in a Model Y; most superchargers were less than half-full (some were deserted) and rarely shared a pair/four group, so got full beans each time. Charged in Montélimar, Nîmes, Narbonne, Barcelona, L’Aldea, Valencia, Ondara, then pretty much the same places on the way back northwards.
Most French/Spanish Tesla chargers are next to shopping centres, hotels or service areas, so each 20 minute stop, every 2-2.5hrs, was taken up with loo-break plus lunch/snacks.
Probably wouldn’t be the same story in the high holiday season, in terms of traffic volumes or charger availability, but I also wouldn’t fancy trying to park or get lunch in Nîmes, Girona, Avignon, Valencia, etc., in July/August either.
2’550 km in a Model Y; most superchargers were less than half-full (some were deserted) and rarely shared a pair/four group, so got full beans each time. Charged in Montélimar, Nîmes, Narbonne, Barcelona, L’Aldea, Valencia, Ondara, then pretty much the same places on the way back northwards.
Most French/Spanish Tesla chargers are next to shopping centres, hotels or service areas, so each 20 minute stop, every 2-2.5hrs, was taken up with loo-break plus lunch/snacks.
Probably wouldn’t be the same story in the high holiday season, in terms of traffic volumes or charger availability, but I also wouldn’t fancy trying to park or get lunch in Nîmes, Girona, Avignon, Valencia, etc., in July/August either.
Edited by Michael_B on Thursday 11th April 15:39
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