Anyone giving up EV?

[KingGary]

GT9 said:

Ken_Code said:

Because what I love is the thrill of driving. I place enjoyment right at the top of the list of what I want from a car, and put efficiency nowhere.

Does this also apply on a trip to the garden centre or Waitrose?
Or the school run?
Or driving to work?
Or Sunday over to the grandparents with the dog and kids in the back?
Seems odd that every single journey would be about the 'thrill of driving'.

I think this is where people like different things. I run mostly older cars, not because I cannot afford not to, but I buy and use things I like, regardless of age, badge or efficiency. It’s why people run classic cars and bikes, love steam engines etc. Latest tech isn’t an attraction for many of us. Look at a Ford GT40 or the Flying Scotsman and tell me they are crap because they aren’t efficient. Sometimes things are to be celebrated just because they exist.

[Ken_Code]

KingGary said:

I think this is where people like different things. I run mostly older cars, not because I cannot afford not to, but I buy and use things I like, regardless of age, badge or efficiency. It’s why people run classic cars and bikes, love steam engines etc. Latest tech isn’t an attraction for many of us. Look at a Ford GT40 or the Flying Scotsman and tell me they are crap because they aren’t efficient. Sometimes things are to be celebrated just because they exist.

I have a lovely fountain pen that I use when signing, and a bike with a 1.2 litre boxer twin engine that I love.

I have suits made of mohair, a wood burning stove, and a Kamado barbecue in the garden.

I can’t agree that changing all of these for something more efficient would lead to a better life, and find people arguing that I ought to feel the same about cars to be foolish.

[GT9]

Ken_Code said:

It’s always about the car that will make the journey as nice as possible.

That means the Range Rover for the 300 miles between homes, the Yaris on the track or grimy B-roads or one of the sports cars if heading across the Alps.

What seems odd is that someone who chooses a car the same way they choose a dishwasher is trolling driving enthusiasts on a driving enthusiast’s site.

Ive got a few V8s.
Love my petrol cars.
Also got a painfully large amount of knowledge about powertrains, particularly EV, by virtue of my career choice.
Most of my posting is to describe the differences between the various powertrains, why assumptions about one don't necessarily apply in the same way as the other ('weight' anyone?) and quite a bit about the upstream energy systems to make the various alternative powertrains viable for mainstream use.
Been posting for 15 years, particular here in the EV and Alternative Fuels sub-forum.
If in the first 2 months of your membership you've deemed that to be trolling, well ok!

[Nomme de Plum]

Ken_Code said:

Nomme de Plum said:

The cars the vast majority of people drive on our roads are a tool and not designed to be chucked around a track

It is a very odd attitude where a person chooses a less efficient product for a particular job. That includes cars for the track. It wouldn't really work for motorsport would it?

It’s not odd at all. Did you choose your wife based on efficiency, or attraction? Do you base your choice of shoes on efficiency, what you eat, or where you go on holiday?

I’d say that putting efficiency at the top of the list is vanishingly rare.

EV owners of course are massive hypocrites on this front, buying inefficient large cars with massive battery packs and then using them round town, when a much smaller, more efficient car such as a Twizzy is available.

I think a person that say they choose a wife would be extremely misguided and rather arrogant. I would say most get attracted to someone that sparks something and for me intelligence is one of those things so someone who was profligate and careless would not have been to attractive to me. However someone who exhibited passion would be. They could wear Dior or St. Laurent but as these are life long pieces than that would not be profligate in fact ecologically better than discarding stuff every few months.

I do not think you understand how efficiency works.

BTW my EV is lighter than a 3 Series BMW and holistically costs me much less to run.

Anyway none of this matters if you are over 50 does it?

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Wednesday 17th April 19:42

[cerb4.5lee]

I didn't intentionally come in here, this thread was there initially in the "What's New" bit of the forum. The title interested me, and now I've ended up down a rabbit hole with it!

I've really enjoyed the chat/company in the thread anyway for sure.

[GT9]

KingGary said:

Granted, but then there would be no sites like this one, because cars would cease to be interesting

EV is still in the early adopter stage.
The fun stuff will come, just not necessarily all at the beginning.
We probably have 25 years of overlap between ICE an EV still to come, no need to see at as a cliff edge.

[Nomme de Plum]

cerb4.5lee said:

I didn't intentionally come in here, this thread was there initially in the "What's New" bit of the forum. The title interested me, and now I've ended up down a rabbit hole with it!

I've really enjoyed the chat/company in the thread anyway for sure.

I always enjoy chatting with you Lee even if we, are as they say, are on opposite sides of the fence.

[cerb4.5lee]

Nomme de Plum said:

cerb4.5lee said:

I didn't intentionally come in here, this thread was there initially in the "What's New" bit of the forum. The title interested me, and now I've ended up down a rabbit hole with it!

I've really enjoyed the chat/company in the thread anyway for sure.

I always enjoy chatting with you Lee even if we, are as they say, are on opposite sides of the fence.

[jamesbilluk]

I've given up now, the iPace has just been too unreliable, and still is (as it's waiting for a battery part, I'm nearly 2 months in waiting) Also if turns out the range was terrible, we did a trip to Devon, and the constant faffing with trying to keep it topped up didn't help the enjoyment of the trip! The was of charging at home didn't make up for the pain of sitting waiting for it to charge..

I've gone back to ICE, and much happier with it! We did a trip to Tenby which was much more enjoyable.

I just need to wait for Jaguar to fix the iPace before I can get rid of it...

[WestyCarl]

Ken_Code said:

It’s always about the car that will make the journey as nice as possible.

That means the Range Rover for the 300 miles between homes, the Yaris on the track or grimy B-roads or one of the sports cars if heading across the Alps.

What seems odd is that someone who chooses a car the same way they choose a dishwasher is trolling driving enthusiasts on a driving enthusiast’s site.

For the majority of my journey's the EV is the the car that will make the journey as nice as possible;
- pre heated / cooled before I even start
- quiet / smooth / no nvh
- fast / imediate thottle repsonse for overtaking
- superb traction (4WD)
- corners flat and fast

Admittedly it doesn't have much character but for most of my weekday drives I'd prefere the above the character.

Edited by WestyCarl on Thursday 18th April 07:47

[Ken_Code]

WestyCarl said:

For the majority of my journey's the EV is the the car that will make the journey as nice as possible;
- pre heated / cooled before I even start
- quiet / smooth / no nvh
- fast / imediate thottle repsonse for overtaking
- superb traction (4WD)
- corners flat and fast

Admittedly it doesn't have much character but for most of my Monday drives I'd prefere the above the character.

For many of my journeys an EV does that too, but that was my point, it’s normal to choose based on what’s the most enjoyable / least unpleasant, not what’s most “efficient.”

By numbers I use an EV for more journeys than anything else.

[GT9]

It's almost as if the fundamental concept of a highly efficient powertrain is why the car is enjoyable or pleasant to use on the majority of occasions...
Minimal waste heat, minimal noise, instant torque, no pause for fuel to be turned into explosions and wasting more than 2/3 of it through the radiator, reduced mass transfer under dynamic loads, etc.
Boring in other words.
ICE's give more sensory overload, vibration, noise, heat, smell, etc.
Exciting in other words.
Excitement can also become tiring after a while though.
It's not cool to admit we sometimes prefer boring, so ICE gets put on the pedestal.
I do it too.

[maz8062]

I’ve got an EV, V8 and a flat 6. The EV is comfortable, has apple car play, yada yada. But I always head for the V8 keys first. The EV is just too boring.

[Tycho]

maz8062 said:

I’ve got an EV, V8 and a flat 6. The EV is comfortable, has apple car play, yada yada. But I always head for the V8 keys first. The EV is just too boring.

We heard you the first time.

[NDA]

jamesbilluk said:

I've given up now, the iPace has just been too unreliable,

Maybe you simply chose the wrong make of car?

I've had some unreliable makes of ICE - hasn't put me off petrol.

[tamore]

KingGary said:

So it’s owner’s fault that his car wasn’t as good as the diesel or petrol equivalent? It’s an iPace, not a Nissan Leaf.

In other news, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68841141.am...

no, but if you want rock solid reliability, JLR is an odd choice. ICE or EV.

[GT9]

The article about Scotland’s 2030 target says a lot more about the mathematical skills of whomever set it 5 years ago than the direction of travel.
Even in the most aggressive decarbonisation scenarios, reaching 75% reduction takes several decades.

[KingGary]

GT9 said:

The article about Scotland’s 2030 target says a lot more about the mathematical skills of whomever set it 5 years ago than the direction of travel.
Even in the most aggressive decarbonisation scenarios, reaching 75% reduction takes several decades.

I think the 2030 date is significant though. Only takes U.K. government to dial back the ambition (because it’s too hard and expensive), before the tax breaks evaporate, and so does the private investment in EV infrastructure.

[cerb4.5lee]

NDA said:

jamesbilluk said:

I've given up now, the iPace has just been too unreliable,

Maybe you simply chose the wrong make of car?

I've had some unreliable makes of ICE - hasn't put me off petrol.

I have to say that my Cerbera almost put me off cars full stop in fairness!

For me there isn't anything worse than an unreliable car for sure, and it doesn't matter what powers it.

[GT9]

KingGary said:

I think the 2030 date is significant though. Only takes U.K. government to dial back the ambition (because it’s too hard and expensive), before the tax breaks evaporate, and so does the private investment in EV infrastructure.

What it reinforces for me is that, generally, we don't seem to have much ability to accept that not everything in life comes with instant gratification.
We are all hooked on it in many aspects of life such as consumer electronics, social media, travel, food, medicine, etc.
If there isn't an instant result, nobody wants to know.
It's quite apparent on here too, with multiple posters writing-off EVs because they don't yet meet the needs of 100% of car users, despite the fact that there is currently only one EV in existence for every 30 ICE cars.
Lots of posts bemoaning the lack of affordable second-hand EVs whilst at the same time saying it's not necessary to restrict or ban new ICEs sales...
In very simple terms its is impossible to replace 33 million cars in less than 20 years when the new car buying rate is 1.5 million of so.
And that would require a 100% ban on new ICEs starting tomorrow.
I mean this is junior school maths isn't it?

Edited by GT9 on Thursday 18th April 08:05