Anyone giving up EV?

[jamesbilluk]

NDA said:

Maybe you simply chose the wrong make of car?

I've had some unreliable makes of ICE - hasn't put me off petrol.

May well be! I did love it to start with, but as the issues came through.

I did like the ease of charging at home, but never liked the charging for longer distances, maybe something with a slightly more accurate, and longer range may help though.

Edited by jamesbilluk on Thursday 18th April 08:44

[jamesbilluk]

cerb4.5lee said:

I have to say that my Cerbera almost put me off cars full stop in fairness!

For me there isn't anything worse than an unreliable car for sure, and it doesn't matter what powers it.

I used to have a Griffith, that used to leave me stranded on various occasions!

Agreed there!

Not sure my why my natural progression from the unreliable EV, to an ICE Alfa will help me to be honest

I did love the ease of charging at home, but didn't enjoy charging for longer distances.

[KingGary]

GT9 said:

What it reinforces for me is that, generally, we don't seem to have much ability to accept that not everything in life comes with instant gratification.
We are all hooked on it in many aspects of life such as consumer electronics, social media, travel, food, medicine, etc.
If there isn't an instant result, nobody wants to know.
It's quite apparent on here too, with multiple posters writing-off EVs because they don't yet meet the needs of 100% of car users, despite the fact that there is currently only one EV in existence for every 30 ICE cars.
Lots of posts bemoaning the lack of affordable second-hand EVs whilst at the same time saying it's not necessary to restrict or ban new ICEs sales...
In very simple terms its is impossible to replace 33 million cars in less than 20 years when the new car buying rate is 1.5 million of so.
And that would require a 100% ban on new ICEs starting tomorrow.
I mean this is junior school maths isn't it?

Edited by GT9 on Thursday 18th April 08:05

You’re right, however this is how human greed works in a free market economy. Governments who don’t support what people want aren’t voted for and those who promise things but then don’t deliver are kicked out in 5 years, which isn’t long enough to deliver anything. Ask your average person if they are prepared to give up personal choice (e.g going on holiday) to support an agenda that doesn’t directly affect their way of life (lower carbon emissions) the answer will be a resounding “no my diesel Corsa does me fine”. It’s not the same as a smoking ban.

Only thing driving EV adoption is the tax breaks, creating a market that otherwise wouldn’t exist.

[tamore]

KingGary said:

GT9 said:

The article about Scotland’s 2030 target says a lot more about the mathematical skills of whomever set it 5 years ago than the direction of travel.
Even in the most aggressive decarbonisation scenarios, reaching 75% reduction takes several decades.

I think the 2030 date is significant though. Only takes U.K. government to dial back the ambition (because it’s too hard and expensive), before the tax breaks evaporate, and so does the private investment in EV infrastructure.

it's a bit wider ranging than your hobby horse. of net zero, EVs are a tiny fraction in reality.

was never attainable. SNP being dicks as usual.

[evojam]

Everyone seems to be getting themselves proper in a twist over this EV vs ICE thing,I mean if you want to drive an EV and it meets your day to day needs fair play and vice versa for ICE vehicles.,availability of used ICE vehicles will still be around long after the new vehicle ICE ban comes into force in 2035 assuming there's no more U-turns and most on here I suspect could probally see out there lifetimes driving ICE if they wanted so what's the beef? The classic car market alone is worth well over 18 billion in revenue to the UK Gov and growing year upon year so can hardly see them abandoning that sector anytime soon,money talks at the end of the day..I have no need in my life for an EV currently but am watching with interest,especially developments in new battery tech which will see massive improvements in range and charge time and may well buy a new EV at the end of the decade.

[Gas1883]

Lad across road has gone from s5 Audi ( I believe v8 ) to Kia ev6 and sounds over the moon with it , fuel costs being the main one
Must admit I’ll miss the sound of the s5 though

[SWoll]

evojam said:

I have no need in my life for an EV currently but am watching with interest,especially developments in new battery tech which will see massive improvements in range and charge time and may well buy a new EV at the end of the decade.

Out of interest what is the tipping point for you?

There are EV's available now that will do 5-6 hours of motorway driving before needing a 30 minute charge to do a further 4+ hours. Is a 30 minute break in 9-10 hours of driving really that big an issue for people?

[DodgyGeezer]

SWoll said:

There are EV's available now that will do 5-6 hours of motorway driving before needing a 30 minute charge to do a further 4+ hours. Is a 30 minute break in 9-10 hours of driving really that big an issue for people?

really? could you name them?

[Ken_Code]

SWoll said:

Out of interest what is the tipping point for you?

There are EV's available now that will do 5-6 hours of motorway driving before needing a 30 minute charge to do a further 4+ hours. Is a 30 minute break in 9-10 hours of driving really that big an issue for people?

6 hours of motorway driving is about 450 miles. What current EV will do a genuine 400 miles or more at motorway speeds?

[Evanivitch]

Ken_Code said:

6 hours of motorway driving is about 450 miles. What current EV will do a genuine 400 miles or more at motorway speeds?

Not in the UK it's not, that's before we even get into the legality of doing it.

[Lotobear]

Yet more bad news for the EV revolution:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/18/ft...

...how long before Germany starts rowing back to save it's car industry?

[740EVTORQUES]

Lotobear said:

Yet more bad news for the EV revolution:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/18/ft...

...how long before Germany starts rowing back to save it's car industry?

Wait, BEV down 11.3%, petrol down 10.2%, diesel down 18.5%

The headline surely should be ‘All car sales down, diesel cars in free fall!’

[KingGary]

740EVTORQUES said:

Lotobear said:

Yet more bad news for the EV revolution:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/18/ft...

...how long before Germany starts rowing back to save it's car industry?

Wait, BEV down 11.3%, petrol down 10.2%, diesel down 18.5%

The headline surely should be ‘All car sales down, diesel cars in free fall!’

That’s not what it says though. Hybrids look to be doing ok.

“Sales of battery-powered cars dropped by 11.3pc

Hybrid cars accounted for 29pc of the market in March, up from 24.4pc in the same month a year ago.

Petrol vehicle sales also decreased by 10.2pc, with notable reductions in France, Spain and Germany.

The downturn in the diesel market was even more severe, with an 18.5pc drop in March.”

Edited by KingGary on Thursday 18th April 12:40

[Lotobear]

740EVTORQUES said:

Lotobear said:

Yet more bad news for the EV revolution:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/18/ft...

...how long before Germany starts rowing back to save it's car industry?

Wait, BEV down 11.3%, petrol down 10.2%, diesel down 18.5%

The headline surely should be ‘All car sales down, diesel cars in free fall!’

It's not really a surprise that diesels are down though as we won't be able to buy a new one in a few years time. I've just bought my penultimate one second hand (a nice low mileage v6 tdi) which I will keep until just before the ban and then buy another which hopefully will see me through the rest of my driving career - I imagine there are many folk doing exactly the same thing.

That, and all cars of every shade just being far too expensive now. It makes absolutely no sense to buy a new car at the moment unless it's an EV as a subsidised company car, but even the market for those is now in freefall.

[smn159]

Lotobear said:

740EVTORQUES said:

Lotobear said:

Yet more bad news for the EV revolution:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/18/ft...

...how long before Germany starts rowing back to save it's car industry?

Wait, BEV down 11.3%, petrol down 10.2%, diesel down 18.5%

The headline surely should be ‘All car sales down, diesel cars in free fall!’

It's not really a surprise that diesels are down though as we won't be able to buy a new one in a few years time. I've just bought my penultimate one second hand (a nice low mileage v6 tdi) which I will keep until just before the ban and then buy another which hopefully will see me through the rest of my driving career - I imagine there are many folk doing exactly the same thing.

I bet that there's not as many as you think who aspire to drive a diesel for the rest of their lives - can't think of much worse

I bet that the fuel cost is only going one way as well, so you'll need to REALLY love that canal boat engine

[Lotobear]

smn159 said:

Lotobear said:

740EVTORQUES said:

Lotobear said:

Yet more bad news for the EV revolution:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/04/18/ft...

...how long before Germany starts rowing back to save it's car industry?

Wait, BEV down 11.3%, petrol down 10.2%, diesel down 18.5%

The headline surely should be ‘All car sales down, diesel cars in free fall!’

It's not really a surprise that diesels are down though as we won't be able to buy a new one in a few years time. I've just bought my penultimate one second hand (a nice low mileage v6 tdi) which I will keep until just before the ban and then buy another which hopefully will see me through the rest of my driving career - I imagine there are many folk doing exactly the same thing.

I bet that there's not as many as you think who aspire to drive a diesel for the rest of their lives - can't think of much worse

I bet that the fuel cost is only going one way as well, so you'll need to REALLY love that canal boat engine

Most of people I know to be fair. For many, myself included, a car is simply a way of getting around as conveniently and as cheaply as possible. My car was 55k when new and I just paid £15k for it and it has another 200k miles at least to do. Folk always seem to forget the cost of the capital and depreciation wrapped up in a new car but diesel could quadruple in price for all I care and it would still be the most economical (and convenient) way for me to get around.

Diesel will be around for many years to come, unless someone has broken the bad news to the road haulage and regional train companies

...and when I do want some fun I still have a pair of Lotus's to enjoy

[KingGary]

smn159 said:

I bet that there's not as many as you think who aspire to drive a diesel for the rest of their lives - can't think of much worse

I bet that the fuel cost is only going one way as well, so you'll need to REALLY love that canal boat engine

Proven technology though, a million taxi drivers can’t be wrong. As a tool to do a job, they are brilliant (euro 6 ad blue rubbish aside)

[tr3a]

jamesbilluk said:

NDA said:

Maybe you simply chose the wrong make of car?

May well be! I did love it to start with, but as the issues came through.

I did like the ease of charging at home, but never liked the charging for longer distances, maybe something with a slightly more accurate, and longer range may help though.

Jaguar iPace can only DCFC charge at a pathetic 100 kW max, which quickly drops off after 40%:



So it's no wonder you don't like charging underway.

I don't want to brag, but my current EV does DCFC at max 250 kW, which comes down to an average of 150 kW. The car is usually finished well before I finish doing whatever I do while fast charging underway.

I suggest you don't just wish for a longer range EV, prioritising a high DCFC charging speed is a much better move.

[740EVTORQUES]

At the risk of labouring a point….

I was fiddling with cars today and thought I’d do a little experiment.

Both cars started out with brake discs at ambient temperature around 12 degrees.

I drove both on the same route in the same fashion, a 20 minute fast A road plus some town. Both involved some at least moderately hard braking.

At the end, the ICE cars discs had reached 48.5 degrees (rise of around 36 degrees) the EV 15.8 (rise of around 4 degrees).

So in terms of energy the ICE car has wasted around 9x as much as the EV.

The ICE engine was 84 degrees while the EV ‘engine’ bay containing motors and inverters (admittedly shrouded in plastic) was 22 degrees.


So in normal use, the ICE car is literally radiating many, many times more waste energy than the EV, despite the EV having much more power and weighing nearly a ton more.

It’s quite possible that the small rise in EV brake disc temperature was radiated heat from the tyres and that the friction brakes had not been used at all (which would also imply no brake wear or dust pollution.)



Before driving;

EV 11.4



ICE 11.9


After driving:

ICE 48.5



EV 15.8



(It’s also a reminder of how much extra wear track use places on road cars, remember the discs quickly reached 150 degrees on track?)

Another interesting factoid about EV braking, mostly it is rear biased as in AWD EVs the front inverters are not that big. In performance EVs like the EV6 GT and Taycan however, their bigger front inverters allow them to move the brake bias to the front (up to 70:30 in the case of the KIA) for better handling, and they can alter this DYNAMICALLY. That’s something I don’t think any supercar does and opens huge possibilities for track focussed EVs. They could for example quite easily dial in brake migration through a corner (like an F1 car, although F1 cars do it hydraulically I believe) for insane levels of grip turning in.

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Thursday 18th April 15:06

[jamesbilluk]

tr3a said:

Jaguar iPace can only DCFC charge at a pathetic 100 kW max, which quickly drops off after 40%:



So it's no wonder you don't like charging underway.

I don't want to brag, but my current EV does DCFC at max 250 kW, which comes down to an average of 150 kW. The car is usually finished well before I finish doing whatever I do while fast charging underway.

I suggest you don't just wish for a longer range EV, prioritising a high DCFC charging speed is a much better move.

I would agree there. During the trip to Devon, we did find some fast chargers, and arrived at one quite low on range, the charging flew to begin with, but did slow up.

Faster charging would certainly make things easier!