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PW

2,228 posts

125 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Nick M said:
Not negative, just pragmatic... but if people like myself can't be bothered to watch a race because it's at a location I consider to be dull...
So the race shouldn't happen because you can't be bothered to watch because you think it is dull - that's not pragmatic, that's selfish.

Matt Harper said:
As already stated, sportscar racing needs events like this
It has those events - which ones aren't on anyone's calendar?

So do you just keep to that handful of events? The WEC calendar is just Le Mans, Sebring & Spa? Or you try and grow new ones in new places?

As long as the classics aren't being replaced, what really is the problem with having more races on the calendar? If you don't like them - so what? Don't watch. Others might want to see them.

Nick M

3,419 posts

109 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all

Because they dilute the quality and don't add anything.

PW

2,228 posts

125 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
How ridiculously miserable.

Red Firecracker

4,720 posts

113 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
In what way? Is that the circuit, the lack of crowd? (Genuinely interested, not being confrontational)

I'm fully aware that I am not the average race watcher. I really enjoy the timing screens when a race is on, seeing where cars are gaining or losing time in comparison to their opponents, which I know is not the way that many people like to take in the spectacle. Obviously, this is annoyingly easier sat on the sofa than sat in the Tribunes.

What that means to me is that I'm not really bothered where the race is, to a certain extent. Yes, Le Mans is fantastic for the added atmosphere and Sebring has to be a bucket list entry as well as PLM nowadays, but I gained the same enjoyment from watching Bahrain as I did from watching Brazil, but I cannot say I gained the same enjoyment from being at Silverstone as I do at Le Mans, although I fully accept and understand the differences between the two, and to be fair, you'd be mad not to! Saying that, was the RAC TT trophy presented at Silverstone?

It's a very interesting discussion, as I think we all gain different things from watching the races in our own ways, so to maybe restrict where those races take place may, in some eyes, be restricting the possibilities for expanding the series into new territories with the added benefits of more people and sponsors being exposed to this type of racing. Those sponsors may just be the saviour of racing in general, of course, enticing manufacturers in and for them to actually stay in. For me, I think trying to build a legacy and history for a circuit/race has got to be worthwhile and admirable. At least we are not in the position (yet?) of the traditional races being at risk to the far eastern money.

Nick M

3,419 posts

109 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all

The circuits are sterile and formulaic, and they exist in places with no basic interest in motorsport. I fail to see how a couple of races a year is going to change that (see my earlier comments about Malaysia). If it's not F1, most people won't bother trying to find out anything beyond that.

Visually they don't offer anything compelling and even if I'm watching it on TV I'd rather see something with at least a *bit* of atmosphere.

And as mentioned, they're only on the calendar because the FIA lays out some arbitrary criteria for something to be a world championship, rather than thinking about what might actually make for a good series.

Apart from that...
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Matt Harper

3,602 posts

87 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
It goes without saying - but sponsors require an audience - new sponsors will not be attracted to a sport that has no audience.
The WEC is turning it's back on venues where there is a large and enthusiastic audience (Sebring and Petit Le Mans, being obvious examples) in favour of markets where there is none (Bahrain, Sao Paulo and Shanghai), for the sake of being "global". I think that it is inevitable that sponsors will be frustrated and will drift away as a result. Consequently, the WEC will paint itself into a corner (like it did last time) and become a nonentity once again.

Red Firecracker

4,720 posts

113 months

[news] 
Saturday 6th October 2012 quote quote all
Surely for the WEC to race at Sebring and PLM, it would require the agreement of Grand-Am and an idea of just what the ALMS/Grand-Am is going to actually be next year, so I'm not really sure it was the ACO/FIA saying 'no thanks'. The ELMS teams have been invited to PLM (and not all are going), but again, there was confusion there over the availability of automatic Le Mans invites for class wins there. Previously IMSA had 8 to give away, now they have decided to give only 3 and don't appear to have communicated that very well to the teams. There is rumour of grandfathering in P1 cars, so Audi may be able to race at Sebring, but Grand-Am have already said they are not interested in an integrated race (I believe), so making it a full WEC championship race is never going to happen.

I do take on board your point about sponsors wanting exposure, but it would be interesting to know the broadcast figures for the Brazil and Bahrain races as that is the primary sponsor/customer interface, I think. I'd say that is also the same for Silverstone as well.

It would be very sad, I think, if they didn't at least try to explore new markets. An almost defeatist attitude.

Nick M

3,419 posts

109 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Red Firecracker said:
It would be very sad, I think, if they didn't at least try to explore new markets. An almost defeatist attitude.
The minute they produce a driver or a team who says they want to compete in a world series, well maybe then is the time to take thair place on a world championship calendar a bit more seriously.

Until then, I'm afraid I remain unconvinced by the 'if you build it they will come' approach, particularly if the circuit was built to attract F1 and anything else is there only because they were asked to host a race rather than because they actually wanted it...

eps

3,897 posts

155 months

[news] 
Sunday 7th October 2012 quote quote all
Great Dane said:
I can sleep in my own bed and be at the circuit in 25 mins...

and I can get to Spa... and sleep in a bed in a caravan...
Me too! about 25 mins South of Silverstone. Just hope I can get some good shots of the cars to update the Le Mans App for 2013.

robmlufc

4,002 posts

72 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
Red Firecracker said:
Surely for the WEC to race at Sebring and PLM, it would require the agreement of Grand-Am and an idea of just what the ALMS/Grand-Am is going to actually be next year, so I'm not really sure it was the ACO/FIA saying 'no thanks'. The ELMS teams have been invited to PLM (and not all are going), but again, there was confusion there over the availability of automatic Le Mans invites for class wins there. Previously IMSA had 8 to give away, now they have decided to give only 3 and don't appear to have communicated that very well to the teams. There is rumour of grandfathering in P1 cars, so Audi may be able to race at Sebring, but Grand-Am have already said they are not interested in an integrated race (I believe), so making it a full WEC championship race is never going to happen.
The WEC said 'no thanks' to sharing Sebring with ALMS. The WEC is a standalone world championship and won't be sharing the track with other series, thats the ACO/FIA view on things.

Red Firecracker

4,720 posts

113 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
robmlufc said:
The WEC said 'no thanks' to sharing Sebring with ALMS. The WEC is a standalone world championship and won't be sharing the track with other series, thats the ACO/FIA view on things.
Ah, thanks. Was it all one way or was there a reluctance form both sides, I wonder? Don Panoz has been openly critical of the WEC as well.

Matt Harper

3,602 posts

87 months

[news] 
Monday 8th October 2012 quote quote all
I think this kind of explains it (in a 'French logic' kind of fashion).

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/le-mans-nev...

Gerard doesn't want WEC and ALMS on the same card at Sebring (as happened this year) because there would be too many entrants!
Solution: run two separate races on consecutive days in a sparsely populated backwater in rural USA on a track designed for F1. Genius.
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