Le Mans and speeding

[XJ Flyer]

cwinterb said:

XJ Flyer said:

andyps said:

Essexjohn said:

Four of us in two MX5s, 15 mins North east of Le Mans on Sunday morning. Just north of Change on the road to Bonnetable...117km in a 90km limit. Following 4 French cars, who obviously were let through and we got pulled. Absolutely no way we were doing that....indicated 74mph allowing for the optimistic speedo. No way.

No point in arguing, we had a crossing to catch. Just a minor downside to a great weekend. 90 euros each. Ah well.... We were cautious for the next few miles....

As 74mph is 119kmh, even with a 10% error you were exceeding the limit so you were right not to argue.

If I've read it right the post says no way was it an indicated 74 mph.Which,assuming they're aware of the 90 kmh limit,sounds sensible.In which case as I said it's still arguably better to use the autoroutes where possible from the point of view of the speed v penalty equation.

I was driving the MX5 behind Essexjohn. What he is saying, and I agree, is that there is no way we were doing an indicated 70MPH+. We were well aware it was a 90kmh limit. We were following several French vehicles, one of which was towing a caravan, all of whom were allowed to continue. We were not speeding. No evidence was offered, other than the word of the Gendarmes who pulled us over. Simple targeting of British number plates I am afraid.

Inconvenient facts like that won't suit the PH anti speed lobby.

It seems obvious that the French plod have been 'advised' from 'somewhere' to be 'on the lookout' for British drivers and the French plod are obviously taking that advice at face value.That in itself being within a general environment which even many of the French police themselves are saying is based on a quota related 'speed enforcement' regime,which has nothing whatsoever to do with road safety.But which seems to have everything to do with maintaining the credibility of the UK's ever increasingly draconian traffic enforcement regime.By making sure that UK drivers won't be able to find the type of relaxed and realistic enforcement regime,which existed previously,just across the channel and which even many within the French enforcement community obviously want to return to.The most likely explanation would be that any 'fitting up' and discrimination,which might be taking place regarding Brit drivers in France,would probably all be part of the same Police resistance that is sabotaging French fixed detection equipment in order to put the pressure where,from their point of view,it belongs on the Brits.Who've caused the problem by trying to export their bullst anti speed crusade across the channel and then apply it to French roads.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Sunday 22 June 18:09

[andyps]

XJ Flyer said:

Inconvenient facts like that won't suit the PH anti speed lobby.

Of course, ignoring the inconvenient fact pointed out by someone in this thread who lives in France and said that the French registered cars don't get stopped because they are notified by post a few days later suits some posters.

[XJ Flyer]

andyps said:

XJ Flyer said:

Inconvenient facts like that won't suit the PH anti speed lobby.

Of course, ignoring the inconvenient fact pointed out by someone in this thread who lives in France and said that the French registered cars don't get stopped because they are notified by post a few days later suits some posters.

Which in this case obviously would have meant that the law were telling the truth about the post in question and a manned speed trap allowed a caravan outfit,supposedly being driven at 74 mph + on a D type road,to carry on.Which would be a great contribution to road 'safety'.

Edited by XJ Flyer on Sunday 22 June 22:18

[XJ Flyer]

webby23 said:

Talk about going off topic..........

Diana died as a result of a drunk and drugged driver trying to escape from chasing photographers.

Anything else is up there along with Elvis "still being alive and running a chip shop in Bolton......"

Edited by webby23 on Sunday 22 June 09:39

Someone raised the unfortunate comparison with the Diana story in trying to make the false link between the crash and speed.

When in fact it is yet more very relevant proof that nicking people for driving at appropriate speeds in the right places,let alone fitting people up for non existent speed offences,won't solve the problems of road safety and road casualties on French roads.

[blueg33]

I am not sure what the fuss is all about? The French are free to enfornce their speed limits in whatever way they see fit.

As a driver, If I exceed speed limits then I have taken a calculated risk that I may get caught. Its irrelevant whether speed causes accidents or not, the fact is the law sets out a limit and is illegal to exceed the limit.

As it happens, I drive in France a lot and generally I think their speed enforcement is light touch in comparison with the UK, the main risk being on entry to towns and villages. But you can't blame them for having a focus on specificareas when lots of foreigners are expected to arrive and ignore the limits.

As always we avoid the direct routes to Le Mans and had a very enjoyable swift drive without seeing a single gendarme.

On Monday's return journey we did some auto route from Chateau sur Loire to Sees, cruising at 80mph is pretty much ideal on the motorway IMO and again we saw no police. Cruising at 80mph we passed many Bristish cars obviously heading back from LeMans, but virtually none passed us. So most were driving below the speed limit.

[lowdrag]

"Sabotaging French fixed radar equipment" brought a smile to my face. Recently someone rather drunk was found doing just this and is due in court shortly. Apparently he was practicing his swing with a five iron in the middle of the dual carriageway near the hospital. He certainly got a hole in one when the BiB took him away!

[W8PMC]

A genuine question?

Is it true about the fixed cameras being unenforcable against UK vehicles?

Obviously not going to finger myself, but stupid shat nav took us very close to Paris at 17:00 on the Thursday heading to Le Mans & then ended up in a new(ish) tunnel which I can only estimate at 10+ miles long. Being in a V8, the temptation got too much & a few foot plants followed (in a tunnel in a V8 what do you expect?)

All was going well until sensibility kicked in & i realised a slight difference in speeds between me & the French taxi drivers so guessed something was amiss. At around the same time i realised the flashing from behind was not in fact other cars headlamps but were in fact scameras & thus is the driver for my question?

[lowdrag]

No you cannot be pursued for the offence, but there are suggestions that the law may change next May. I await to see if it will come to pass, but on the point in question you are safe.

[W8PMC]

lowdrag said:

No you cannot be pursued for the offence, but there are suggestions that the law may change next May. I await to see if it will come to pass, but on the point in question you are safe.

Thank you Sir Have been given conflicting tales & will be heading home in a couple of days so was getting worried the letterbox may have been full of invites requesting my return to France in the next few days

[RobbyJ]

W8PMC said:

Thank you Sir Have been given conflicting tales & will be heading home in a couple of days so was getting worried the letterbox may have been full of invites requesting my return to France in the next few days

You still not home yet, that's quite a hangover

[WhyTwo]

blueg33 said:

I am not sure what the fuss is all about? The French are free to enfornce their speed limits in whatever way they see fit.

At least some of the fuss is about drivers being stopped and fined for speeding whilst being was presented with no evidence of the offence and being adamant they were not speeding. So essentially 'fitting up' drivers, I personally don't see this as a fair way to enforce their speed limits.

As I've posted previously one of our party had his cruise control on 80mph in a 130kph limit and was pulled and fined €90 for allegedly doing 143kph, that's just not on. He had no choice to pay as the first thing they did was take his licence off him pending payment of the fine.

Another of our party was also fined for allegedly 139kph in a 110kph limit not far out of Calais. He admits he was probably exceeding the 110 limit but not to the tune of 139kph. Again no evidence to support the allegation. He accepted the fine but has not accepted that he was as far over the limit.

[XJ Flyer]

blueg33 said:

I am not sure what the fuss is all about? The French are free to enfornce their speed limits in whatever way they see fit.

As a driver, If I exceed speed limits then I have taken a calculated risk that I may get caught. Its irrelevant whether speed causes accidents or not, the fact is the law sets out a limit and is illegal to exceed the limit.

As it happens, I drive in France a lot and generally I think their speed enforcement is light touch in comparison with the UK, the main risk being on entry to towns and villages. But you can't blame them for having a focus on specificareas when lots of foreigners are expected to arrive and ignore the limits.

As always we avoid the direct routes to Le Mans and had a very enjoyable swift drive without seeing a single gendarme.

On Monday's return journey we did some auto route from Chateau sur Loire to Sees, cruising at 80mph is pretty much ideal on the motorway IMO and again we saw no police. Cruising at 80mph we passed many Bristish cars obviously heading back from LeMans, but virtually none passed us. So most were driving below the speed limit.

The way I see it is that many/most Brits have been beaten into submission by the ever increasing domestic speed crusade here that started with the 70 mph motorway limit.IE they don't know any different or better so it's obvious that ( to them )80 mph will seem like a 'high speed'.

However the situation on the continent,until relatively recently,was a different world.As I've said in most cases the situation in France is just the result of the creeping rot that set in here being taken across the channel and imposed their.The fact is if you 'drive in France a lot' but you're only familiar with a mostly 80 mph max speed regime of traffic on French motorways and/or 90 kmh on RN/D roads then I'd guess that 'a lot' in this case can't mean historically over many years.Being that in general the speeds involved matched the road and traffic conditions found there not an imposed limit enforced along UK lines and adhered to by defeated UK type drivers.

[XJ Flyer]

lowdrag said:

No you cannot be pursued for the offence, but there are suggestions that the law may change next May. I await to see if it will come to pass, but on the point in question you are safe.

No surprise that the UK's sticking point seems to be that the penalties imposed aren't tough enough being just in the format of fines as opposed to points and fines.The word is that Germany won't stand for points being imposed on drivers for speed offences which,in it's view,would only warrant a fine.

[monamimate]

XJ Flyer said:

The way I see it is that many/most Brits have been beaten into submission by the ever increasing domestic speed crusade here that started with the 70 mph motorway limit.IE they don't know any different or better so it's obvious that ( to them )80 mph will seem like a 'high speed'.

However the situation on the continent,until relatively recently,was a different world.As I've said in most cases the situation in France is just the result of the creeping rot that set in here being taken across the channel and imposed their.The fact is if you 'drive in France a lot' but you're only familiar with a mostly 80 mph max speed regime of traffic on French motorways and/or 90 kmh on RN/D roads then I'd guess that 'a lot' in this case can't mean historically over many years.Being that in general the speeds involved matched the road and traffic conditions found there not an imposed limit enforced along UK lines and adhered to by defeated UK type drivers.

The change in French control and punishment of speeding has nothing to do with some Cross-Channel conspiracy, but wholly to do with the fact that the French authorities decided several years to crack down very hard on the truly excessive disregard for speed limits that prevailed.

I used to live in France in the early 90s. Often, the minimum "entry speed" for the left lane was 150kph. I often drove in a line of traffic all doing 180kph. With no fines, almost no control.

Not surprisigly, the authorities finally woke up to this, and their draconian fines have worked very well in changing French driving behaviour. I very seldom see any French cars exceeding 130kph today...

It has nothing to do with the Brits...

[andyps]

monamimate said:

The change in French control and punishment of speeding has nothing to do with some Cross-Channel conspiracy, but wholly to do with the fact that the French authorities decided several years to crack down very hard on the truly excessive disregard for speed limits that prevailed.

I used to live in France in the early 90s. Often, the minimum "entry speed" for the left lane was 150kph. I often drove in a line of traffic all doing 180kph. With no fines, almost no control.

Not surprisigly, the authorities finally woke up to this, and their draconian fines have worked very well in changing French driving behaviour. I very seldom see any French cars exceeding 130kph today...

It has nothing to do with the Brits...

I agree about this, especially the view that it is rare to see French cars exceeding the limit - very often the case on 90kmh road during daylight too.

And one major difference between France and the UK is that the changes in recent years have made a substantial difference in the number of fatalities in France. I'm not suggesting this is all down to the clamp down on speeding but it does appear to be a contributing factor.

[lowdrag]

Actually, the sticking point is that the UK are not happy about disclosing the owner of the car's details since he might not have been the driver.

[XJ Flyer]

monamimate said:

XJ Flyer said:

The way I see it is that many/most Brits have been beaten into submission by the ever increasing domestic speed crusade here that started with the 70 mph motorway limit.IE they don't know any different or better so it's obvious that ( to them )80 mph will seem like a 'high speed'.

However the situation on the continent,until relatively recently,was a different world.As I've said in most cases the situation in France is just the result of the creeping rot that set in here being taken across the channel and imposed their.The fact is if you 'drive in France a lot' but you're only familiar with a mostly 80 mph max speed regime of traffic on French motorways and/or 90 kmh on RN/D roads then I'd guess that 'a lot' in this case can't mean historically over many years.Being that in general the speeds involved matched the road and traffic conditions found there not an imposed limit enforced along UK lines and adhered to by defeated UK type drivers.

The change in French control and punishment of speeding has nothing to do with some Cross-Channel conspiracy, but wholly to do with the fact that the French authorities decided several years to crack down very hard on the truly excessive disregard for speed limits that prevailed.

I used to live in France in the early 90s. Often, the minimum "entry speed" for the left lane was 150kph. I often drove in a line of traffic all doing 180kph. With no fines, almost no control.

Not surprisigly, the authorities finally woke up to this, and their draconian fines have worked very well in changing French driving behaviour. I very seldom see any French cars exceeding 130kph today...

It has nothing to do with the Brits...

It's difficult to believe that the French would have just coincidentally and suddenly jumped on the same speed kills bullst bandwagon that is the cornerstone of UK road 'safety' policy.When it was never in the French authorities mindset or part of French driver behavior.

Added to which as we've seen here in general it's the Brits who are likely to be the most accepting of such a regime in the form of it supposedly being a good thing as opposed to a bad one.Your own post obviously being supportive of it on the grounds that the old French speed regime was too much for you personally to handle.Which,as I've said,has it's origins in drivers who've been raised under the British ( and American ) idea of how to use a motorway as opposed to the German one.

[Vette_1978]

Putting the he said, she said handbags there seems to be a worrying precident being set. How can a police officer make a claim of a crime without any evidence? I've been stopped twice on trips to LM, once for no front number plate and another for speeding enroute to Caen. Both fine by me, the speeding was questioned and he showed me the laser reading so fair cop, I paid out. If I was stopped though when I was sure that I was not speeding and no evidence was provided I'd not be happy at all. So if you refuse to pay and they escort you off to a court somewhere what evidence would be used to convict? The word of the officer alone? Surely not.

[XJ Flyer]

lowdrag said:

Actually, the sticking point is that the UK are not happy about disclosing the owner of the car's details since he might not have been the driver.

Really.So exactly how does the UK system of first point of contact work in the case of speed camera convictions.

IE registered keeper is requested to provide details concerning who was the driver.While I've already posted information which proves that it's the points v fines issue which is one of the reasons given by the government.

[surveyor]

I did hear that next year they are going to lower the seed limit to 62 mph, and enforce it with average speed camera's. Kent RPU will be setting up a specialist office in France to assist in catching out UK motorists on duff paperwork, and will be prosecuting speeders through the UK system.....


*I may have made this up to see if XJFlyer will explode in an interesting scientific experiment