Le Mans and speeding
Discussion
andyps said:
I agree about this, especially the view that it is rare to see French cars exceeding the limit - very often the case on 90kmh road during daylight too.
And one major difference between France and the UK is that the changes in recent years have made a substantial difference in the number of fatalities in France. I'm not suggesting this is all down to the clamp down on speeding but it does appear to be a contributing factor.
As I've said that obviously fits in the UK mindset over the years to an ever increasing level where it's now reached the point where Britain's roads are nothing but a licence losing liability.With motorways clogged by slow moving traffic and the impossibility of safely overtaking slower traffic on the remaining single carriageway NSL roads without falling foul of the draconian speed enforcement regime at some point. And one major difference between France and the UK is that the changes in recent years have made a substantial difference in the number of fatalities in France. I'm not suggesting this is all down to the clamp down on speeding but it does appear to be a contributing factor.
I really am tired of your constant know-it-all posts XJFlyer. Why you aren't in government is a source of amazement to me. This is the last time I'll reply to your posts and will try and avoid any further ones you make. It has been made clear by the UK authorities that it is the act of supplying information to foreign powers as to the ownership of a UK registered car that is the sticking point.
surveyor said:
I did hear that next year they are going to lower the seed limit to 62 mph, and enforce it with average speed camera's. Kent RPU will be setting up a specialist office in France to assist in catching out UK motorists on duff paperwork, and will be prosecuting speeders through the UK system.....
*I may have made this up to see if XJFlyer will explode in an interesting scientific experiment
Whereas I did hear that before accepting the UK ideology of dumbing down speeds to compensate for s*I may have made this up to see if XJFlyer will explode in an interesting scientific experiment
t drivers.The French were going to open an office at Calais etc telling UK drivers if you can't handle our speeds then go back home.But decided against it on the grounds of Anglo/French cooperation. lowdrag said:
I really am tired of your constant know-it-all posts XJFlyer. Why you aren't in government is a source of amazement to me. This is the last time I'll reply to your posts and will try and avoid any further ones you make. It has been made clear by the UK authorities that it is the act of supplying information to foreign powers as to the ownership of a UK registered car that is the sticking point.
Maybe the reason why you don't want to get into an argument concerning the issue is because you aren't sure enough of your facts.www.blogs.findlaw.co.uk/solicitor/2014/05/eu-court...
''Con MEP said it's not in our interests take part because it seeks to implement fines when other deterrents such as points would be more effective''.
Bearing in mind that the bulls
t claim of the registered keeper shouldn't be involved would obviously also shoot down domestic UK speed enforcement policy.XJ Flyer said:
lowdrag said:
I really am tired of your constant know-it-all posts XJFlyer. Why you aren't in government is a source of amazement to me. This is the last time I'll reply to your posts and will try and avoid any further ones you make. It has been made clear by the UK authorities that it is the act of supplying information to foreign powers as to the ownership of a UK registered car that is the sticking point.
Maybe the reason why you don't want to get into an argument concerning the issue is because you aren't sure enough of your facts.www.blogs.findlaw.co.uk/solicitor/2014/05/eu-court...
''Con MEP said it's not in our interests take part because it seeks to implement fines when other deterrents such as points would be more effective''.
Bearing in mind that the bulls
t claim of the registered keeper shouldn't be involved would obviously also shoot down domestic UK speed enforcement policy. UK Conservative Member of the European Parliament Timothy Kirkhope said:
The UK decided that on balance it was not in our interests to take part because the directive prosecutes vehicle owners, rather than the offending driver, and it seeks to implement fines when other deterrents - such as points on a licence - may be more effective"
I have emboldened the important word you missed, the words prior to that emphasise the point made by Lowdrag showing him to be correct.On a wider point, why don't you spend your time lobbying where it would have more effect to try to make changes you seem to believe are needed rather than bleating on an internet forum? Or alternatively just post on German forums to tell them how fantastic their approach is rather than being so negative here.
andyps said:
I have emboldened the important word you missed, the words prior to that emphasise the point made by Lowdrag showing him to be correct.
On a wider point, why don't you spend your time lobbying where it would have more effect to try to make changes you seem to believe are needed rather than bleating on an internet forum? Or alternatively just post on German forums to tell them how fantastic their approach is rather than being so negative here.
As I said in an environment of camera enforcement here that firstly prosecutes the registered keeper,assuming the driver can't then be established,it's obvious that the Cons are just using double standards to push through their real agenda.Which is obviously exactly the one which I've referred to in which,as usual,the UK wants to expand it's war against the motorist here onto continental roads.In which case,like Lowdrag,it seems strange why you're so keen to selectively concentrate on that part of the statement rather than the one related to penalties in the form of the fines v points argument.On a wider point, why don't you spend your time lobbying where it would have more effect to try to make changes you seem to believe are needed rather than bleating on an internet forum? Or alternatively just post on German forums to tell them how fantastic their approach is rather than being so negative here.
I'd suggest that all those who are supportive of the government's position concerning that situation are the ones who should go forth and multiply where they belong and post on one of the numerous green/safety type places that support their bulls
t ideas.No names supplied but at least one of the main ones would be obvious. Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 23 June 13:42
XJ Flyer said:
As I said in an environment of camera enforcement here that firstly prosecutes the registered keeper,assuming the driver can't then be established,it's obvious that the Cons are just using double standards to push through their real agenda.Which is obviously exactly the one which I've referred to in which,as usual,the UK wants to expand it's war against the motorist here onto continental roads.
I'd suggest that all those who are supportive of that situation are the ones who should go forth and multiply where they belong and post on one of the numerous green/safety type places that support their bullst ideas.No names supplied but at least one of the main ones would be obvious.
OK, last post on this from me - please post the correct link to the view you are making here as the one you put up previously was obviously not correct as it does not state what you are saying. In fact, it is almost entirely the opposite.I'd suggest that all those who are supportive of that situation are the ones who should go forth and multiply where they belong and post on one of the numerous green/safety type places that support their bulls
t ideas.No names supplied but at least one of the main ones would be obvious. XJ Flyer said:
monamimate said:
XJ Flyer said:
The way I see it is that many/most Brits have been beaten into submission by the ever increasing domestic speed crusade here that started with the 70 mph motorway limit.IE they don't know any different or better so it's obvious that ( to them )80 mph will seem like a 'high speed'.
However the situation on the continent,until relatively recently,was a different world.As I've said in most cases the situation in France is just the result of the creeping rot that set in here being taken across the channel and imposed their.The fact is if you 'drive in France a lot' but you're only familiar with a mostly 80 mph max speed regime of traffic on French motorways and/or 90 kmh on RN/D roads then I'd guess that 'a lot' in this case can't mean historically over many years.Being that in general the speeds involved matched the road and traffic conditions found there not an imposed limit enforced along UK lines and adhered to by defeated UK type drivers.
The change in French control and punishment of speeding has nothing to do with some Cross-Channel conspiracy, but wholly to do with the fact that the French authorities decided several years to crack down very hard on the truly excessive disregard for speed limits that prevailed.However the situation on the continent,until relatively recently,was a different world.As I've said in most cases the situation in France is just the result of the creeping rot that set in here being taken across the channel and imposed their.The fact is if you 'drive in France a lot' but you're only familiar with a mostly 80 mph max speed regime of traffic on French motorways and/or 90 kmh on RN/D roads then I'd guess that 'a lot' in this case can't mean historically over many years.Being that in general the speeds involved matched the road and traffic conditions found there not an imposed limit enforced along UK lines and adhered to by defeated UK type drivers.
I used to live in France in the early 90s. Often, the minimum "entry speed" for the left lane was 150kph. I often drove in a line of traffic all doing 180kph. With no fines, almost no control.
Not surprisigly, the authorities finally woke up to this, and their draconian fines have worked very well in changing French driving behaviour. I very seldom see any French cars exceeding 130kph today...
It has nothing to do with the Brits...
t bandwagon that is the cornerstone of UK road 'safety' policy.When it was never in the French authorities mindset or part of French driver behavior.Added to which as we've seen here in general it's the Brits who are likely to be the most accepting of such a regime in the form of it supposedly being a good thing as opposed to a bad one.Your own post obviously being supportive of it on the grounds that the old French speed regime was too much for you personally to handle.Which,as I've said,has it's origins in drivers who've been raised under the British ( and American ) idea of how to use a motorway as opposed to the German one.
?There is a general move across Europe to crack down on speed, not just in UK or France. Holland, among others, also confiscates cars, has introduced journey speed tracking etc.
"too much for me to handle" Er, where are you going with this? While I enjoyed the "freedom" of the less-controlled days, I also have the brains to realise it wasn't always clever, and potentially dangerous (but hey, when you're young...)
If I read your post correctly, the only nations who had speed limits on the m'ways were the Brits and the Americans, and therefore it is because of this that all other countries suddenly thought "ooh, let's put up a radar". You do know that Germany is the ONLY country without limits, and therefore ALL other countries have grown up with the same "idea of how to use a motorway"... not just the British.
Why are you so keen to blame the British for this?
andyps said:
XJ Flyer said:
As I said in an environment of camera enforcement here that firstly prosecutes the registered keeper,assuming the driver can't then be established,it's obvious that the Cons are just using double standards to push through their real agenda.Which is obviously exactly the one which I've referred to in which,as usual,the UK wants to expand it's war against the motorist here onto continental roads.
I'd suggest that all those who are supportive of that situation are the ones who should go forth and multiply where they belong and post on one of the numerous green/safety type places that support their bullst ideas.No names supplied but at least one of the main ones would be obvious.
OK, last post on this from me - please post the correct link to the view you are making here as the one you put up previously was obviously not correct as it does not state what you are saying. In fact, it is almost entirely the opposite.I'd suggest that all those who are supportive of that situation are the ones who should go forth and multiply where they belong and post on one of the numerous green/safety type places that support their bulls
t ideas.No names supplied but at least one of the main ones would be obvious. monamimate said:
It's even harder to believe that the French are so weak-minded that they can't decide for themselves and have to follow the British. Have you met any French people ?
There is a general move across Europe to crack down on speed, not just in UK or France. Holland, among others, also confiscates cars, has introduced journey speed tracking etc.
"too much for me to handle" Er, where are you going with this? While I enjoyed the "freedom" of the less-controlled days, I also have the brains to realise it wasn't always clever, and potentially dangerous (but hey, when you're young...)
If I read your post correctly, the only nations who had speed limits on the m'ways were the Brits and the Americans, and therefore it is because of this that all other countries suddenly thought "ooh, let's put up a radar". You do know that Germany is the ONLY country without limits, and therefore ALL other countries have grown up with the same "idea of how to use a motorway"... not just the British.
Why are you so keen to blame the British for this?
It seems obvious that the UK ( and the US ) are the main two places where the hang ups concerning speed originated.While your own post seems to contain just yet more of the same.?There is a general move across Europe to crack down on speed, not just in UK or France. Holland, among others, also confiscates cars, has introduced journey speed tracking etc.
"too much for me to handle" Er, where are you going with this? While I enjoyed the "freedom" of the less-controlled days, I also have the brains to realise it wasn't always clever, and potentially dangerous (but hey, when you're young...)
If I read your post correctly, the only nations who had speed limits on the m'ways were the Brits and the Americans, and therefore it is because of this that all other countries suddenly thought "ooh, let's put up a radar". You do know that Germany is the ONLY country without limits, and therefore ALL other countries have grown up with the same "idea of how to use a motorway"... not just the British.
Why are you so keen to blame the British for this?
In the case of Germnany there certainly was always a motorway limit and just like France it was 130 kmh.The difference was that it was 'officially' an 'advisory' limit not an enforced one.The only difference then in being the definition of the officially recognised advisory limit in Germany,as opposed to one which was just unofficially recognised as such and enforced along those similar lines in France and a similar situation existed in Italy.All of which being a world away from the situation here and in America.Or for that matter the stupid pot smoking Dutch.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 23 June 14:07
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 23 June 14:17
XJ Flyer said:
It seems obvious that the UK ( and the US ) are the main two places where the hang ups concerning speed originated.While your own post seems to contain just yet more of the same.
In the case of Germnany there certainly was always a motorway limit and just like France it was 130 kmh.The difference was that it was 'officially' an 'advisory' limit not an enforced one.The only difference then in being the definition of the officially recognised advisory limit in Germany,as opposed to one which was just unofficially recognised as such and enforced along those similar lines in France.All of which being a world away from the situation here and in America.Or for that matter the stupid pot smoking Dutch.
I see that we are on different planets.In the case of Germnany there certainly was always a motorway limit and just like France it was 130 kmh.The difference was that it was 'officially' an 'advisory' limit not an enforced one.The only difference then in being the definition of the officially recognised advisory limit in Germany,as opposed to one which was just unofficially recognised as such and enforced along those similar lines in France.All of which being a world away from the situation here and in America.Or for that matter the stupid pot smoking Dutch.
Edited by XJ Flyer on Monday 23 June 14:07
I have "hang-ups" concerning speed? Such a strange (I'm being very polite) comment doesn't even deserve response.
Everyone knows the difference between the advisory and official limit in Germany... I didn't think it needed spelling out on PH...
The only thing that seems "obvious" is that facts are of little concern to you. How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the US and UK are the sole source of the so-called "hang-up" about speed??
And of course, let's just insult the Dutch when they don't fit with your thinking...
Phew.
monamimate said:
I see that we are on different planets.
I have "hang-ups" concerning speed? Such a strange (I'm being very polite) comment doesn't even deserve response.
Everyone knows the difference between the advisory and official limit in Germany... I didn't think it needed spelling out on PH...
The only thing that seems "obvious" is that facts are of little concern to you. How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the US and UK are the sole source of the so-called "hang-up" about speed??
And of course, let's just insult the Dutch when they don't fit with your thinking...
Phew.
As I read it your post contained the statement that ''speed'' in isolation assuming it's used in the right conditions/places,which is what we're discussing here,is ''potentially dangerous''.I have "hang-ups" concerning speed? Such a strange (I'm being very polite) comment doesn't even deserve response.
Everyone knows the difference between the advisory and official limit in Germany... I didn't think it needed spelling out on PH...
The only thing that seems "obvious" is that facts are of little concern to you. How on earth do you come to the conclusion that the US and UK are the sole source of the so-called "hang-up" about speed??
And of course, let's just insult the Dutch when they don't fit with your thinking...
Phew.
As for the over enforced,draconian speed regimes,of the US and UK,as opposed to the more relaxed ones of continental Europe in many cases such as Germany,France and Italy over the years.I've based my comments on experience over time that can only lead to that conclusion.In which case the obvious question is what is it that's driving the 'changes' which we're seeing in Europe in that regard and from where do they originate.
They will raise some revenue speeding or not.
Last time we went in 2010 to the classic along back roads from Le Havre i saw a motorbike plod coming towards us just pulling a motorbike. We weren't speeding nice n relaxed so no worries, i saw him before he saw me anyway so plenty of time to have slowed down if needed.
A few minutes later he pulled us over for speeding on the spot fine - except we wern't. No evidence required, just English sports cars so they must be speeding or easy to bank role.
Sure it went in his back pocket - part of the cost of doing Le Mans unfortunately. Belgium got our spends the next year. Just expect to get pulled no matter which route.
Last time we went in 2010 to the classic along back roads from Le Havre i saw a motorbike plod coming towards us just pulling a motorbike. We weren't speeding nice n relaxed so no worries, i saw him before he saw me anyway so plenty of time to have slowed down if needed.
A few minutes later he pulled us over for speeding on the spot fine - except we wern't. No evidence required, just English sports cars so they must be speeding or easy to bank role.
Sure it went in his back pocket - part of the cost of doing Le Mans unfortunately. Belgium got our spends the next year. Just expect to get pulled no matter which route.
leyorkie said:
lowdrag said:
Mods, please please help us! The words of Oscar Wilde come to mind:-
Either this wallflower (sic) goes or I do.
Exasperatedly yours.
How about the words of Plato?Either this wallflower (sic) goes or I do.
Exasperatedly yours.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say
A fool speaks because he has to say something.
leyorkie said:
lowdrag said:
Mods, please please help us! The words of Oscar Wilde come to mind:-
Either this wallflower (sic) goes or I do.
Exasperatedly yours.
How about the words of Plato?Either this wallflower (sic) goes or I do.
Exasperatedly yours.
A wise man speaks because he has something to say
A fool speaks because he has to say something.
Better to stay silent and be thought a fool than to speak (or in this case start typing) and remove all doubt....
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez
I've just read this thread, or tried to - I stopped reading XJ Flyers posts about 4 pages ago, they were making my brain hurt.
I remember him (or her?) popping up last year spouting the same drivel.
Ridiculous ramblings of a deluded individual, and that's being kind.
I travelled from Le Havre to Le Mans and back, through stunning villages on D roads, one of the best parts of the trip............. in glorious sunshine - no Gendarmes in sight.
I've just read this thread, or tried to - I stopped reading XJ Flyers posts about 4 pages ago, they were making my brain hurt.
I remember him (or her?) popping up last year spouting the same drivel.
Ridiculous ramblings of a deluded individual, and that's being kind.
I travelled from Le Havre to Le Mans and back, through stunning villages on D roads, one of the best parts of the trip............. in glorious sunshine - no Gendarmes in sight.
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