Cashless Le Mans?
Discussion
Have just got back from WSR in Le mans and have to report the circuit has gone "cashless" a la Nurburgring. Have to pay for (1 euro) and charge up a card from various cash cabins set up around the place and then use that to buy all your drinks and food etc. Plan is that at the end of the day you line up and get refunded anything not used over 1 euro but you can imagine the queues at the end of the day so most don't bother.
No displays on the tills either so difficult to know how much balance you have left. This was a much smaller event that the 24 hours and cannot imagine it working too well once 1/4 million people are using it.
It all looks permanent as well so guessing it will be in place for the 24h in 2016.
No displays on the tills either so difficult to know how much balance you have left. This was a much smaller event that the 24 hours and cannot imagine it working too well once 1/4 million people are using it.
It all looks permanent as well so guessing it will be in place for the 24h in 2016.
Well when I'm sat in the stands thinking .oO(I could do a beer/ice cream about now)Oo. it's likely to be followed by .oO(Actually screw it, I'd have to queue for a card, then queue for service - I'll just sit here/head back to the beers in my tent)Oo.
Maybe it will get the day-trippers but my on-circuit purchases are generally impulse ones, like late at night when I've forgotten just how horrible Cheros, or pre-dawn when you need a coffee and have forgotten that means half a cup of tepid muck.
Wonder if this will be a rule for everyone or just the ACO stalls?
Maybe it will get the day-trippers but my on-circuit purchases are generally impulse ones, like late at night when I've forgotten just how horrible Cheros, or pre-dawn when you need a coffee and have forgotten that means half a cup of tepid muck.
Wonder if this will be a rule for everyone or just the ACO stalls?
We had a cashless environment when working within a large multinational company in the Netherlands. I thought it was superb I'd top up once a month and use it in all the shops and restaurants on the campus. For a show like LM I see the appeal, top up your card on day 1 and go. The problem though as mentioned is the refunds of non used cash on the card. Hopefully they allow you to refund the money online perhaps?
ecsrobin said:
We had a cashless environment when working within a large multinational company in the Netherlands. I thought it was superb I'd top up once a month and use it in all the shops and restaurants on the campus. For a show like LM I see the appeal, top up your card on day 1 and go. The problem though as mentioned is the refunds of non used cash on the card. Hopefully they allow you to refund the money online perhaps?
These systems are great for perm. staff but what about visitors...? I'm a consultant and often find myself on a client site for a single day and unable to get a cup of tea without having to pay a member of staff to buy it for me because the only way to pay is via the smart payment system built in to the staff pass - but not the paper day visitor passes.And based on what eastlmark said you have to buy the card for 1Euro but can only get anything >1Euro back. Lets say the cards actually cost the ACO 0.2Euro each (guess) and on average each card has 0.5Euro left on it they are making 0.7Euro from every card regardless of how much you spend/how much of a cut they take from the traders per-transaction. 263,000 people attended Le Mans last year so if we say 100,000 cards, to allow for families sharing a card that's about 70,000Euro they stand to make just by forcing people to use cards they don't want and sucking up the cents!
A great many European mass events seem to do this. I was at Sonar festival in the summer and they used just this system. It's kind of a win/win for the organiser - at the end of the event if I have, say, 5 Euros left on my card I am not going to bother queuing long for a refund so I will either forget about it or spend for the heck of it. I might say that's 'just me' but it seemed to be pretty universally the case.
That said it did work well - I didn't see it failing once and that was with a bunch of pilled/boozed up ravers demanding food and drink.
That said it did work well - I didn't see it failing once and that was with a bunch of pilled/boozed up ravers demanding food and drink.
//j17 said:
ecsrobin said:
We had a cashless environment when working within a large multinational company in the Netherlands. I thought it was superb I'd top up once a month and use it in all the shops and restaurants on the campus. For a show like LM I see the appeal, top up your card on day 1 and go. The problem though as mentioned is the refunds of non used cash on the card. Hopefully they allow you to refund the money online perhaps?
These systems are great for perm. staff but what about visitors...? I'm a consultant and often find myself on a client site for a single day and unable to get a cup of tea without having to pay a member of staff to buy it for me because the only way to pay is via the smart payment system built in to the staff pass - but not the paper day visitor passes.And based on what eastlmark said you have to buy the card for 1Euro but can only get anything >1Euro back. Lets say the cards actually cost the ACO 0.2Euro each (guess) and on average each card has 0.5Euro left on it they are making 0.7Euro from every card regardless of how much you spend/how much of a cut they take from the traders per-transaction. 263,000 people attended Le Mans last year so if we say 100,000 cards, to allow for families sharing a card that's about 70,000Euro they stand to make just by forcing people to use cards they don't want and sucking up the cents!
But agreed that is a huge cut but if it speeds up the queues I'm all for it.
Have to say I can't see the benefit at all. Vastly complex and people will need cash anyway (trams, carrefour, pub, buying some God awful Audi cap if you're that way inclined etc).
Cashless also needs networking. Anyone ever had decent data signal at LM? I haven't. It's not the same challenge to data-up the small Bugatti circuit as it is to connect the system from Mulsanne corner to Terte Rouge (and all the campsites, too) - so my official guess is that they won't do it for the 24...
Cashless also needs networking. Anyone ever had decent data signal at LM? I haven't. It's not the same challenge to data-up the small Bugatti circuit as it is to connect the system from Mulsanne corner to Terte Rouge (and all the campsites, too) - so my official guess is that they won't do it for the 24...
Le Mans has been getting very sophisticated in the money game for years. At the Classic entrants pay in advance for their fuel, standard 98 octane at - wait for it - double the pump price and then if the car breaks down have to prove how much they've used to get a refund. Impossible. I calculated that the ACO made at least 30,000€ on unused petrol alone in 2014. A friend told me that his weekend with two cars entered cost him over 20,000€ all in. Eye-watering.
lowdrag said:
Le Mans has been getting very sophisticated in the money game for years. At the Classic entrants pay in advance for their fuel, standard 98 octane at - wait for it - double the pump price and then if the car breaks down have to prove how much they've used to get a refund. Impossible. I calculated that the ACO made at least 30,000€ on unused petrol alone in 2014. A friend told me that his weekend with two cars entered cost him over 20,000€ all in. Eye-watering.
very standard (and not just at le mans) for teams to have to pay over the odds for 'control' fuel either from organisers or series 'sponsors' ... and always at a hefty premium to the same grade of fuel available at a roadside pump. you usually find that the minimum delivery unit is pretty big too, so you always end up buying more than you need as well. Some Gump said:
Have to say I can't see the benefit at all. Vastly complex and people will need cash anyway (trams, carrefour, pub, buying some God awful Audi cap if you're that way inclined etc).
Cashless also needs networking. Anyone ever had decent data signal at LM? I haven't. It's not the same challenge to data-up the small Bugatti circuit as it is to connect the system from Mulsanne corner to Terte Rouge (and all the campsites, too) - so my official guess is that they won't do it for the 24...
It might be that it's only in force for the main village part of the track, and they just leave the mainly independent vendors at the far flung reaches to use cash. Mind you, if the amounts to be generated are to be believed then it won't be many years before they will be able to pay for the insfrastructure extensions needed, as surely it's in their interest to have as many places as possible using the system. I wonder if the traders under the tribunes wiil be forced into using it (along with a cut of takings?), maybe as part of their trading agreement?Cashless also needs networking. Anyone ever had decent data signal at LM? I haven't. It's not the same challenge to data-up the small Bugatti circuit as it is to connect the system from Mulsanne corner to Terte Rouge (and all the campsites, too) - so my official guess is that they won't do it for the 24...
Sounds like someone in the ACO has realised what a cash cow they have on their hands!
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