Best lease car deals available?
Discussion
tleefox said:
Can anyone explain to me business leasing? My assumption was always unless you had your own company and we VAT registered you could not get business rates, which having seen a couple of posts on here seems to be wrong.
As an example, I get a car allowance of circa £600 PCM from my employers. My own car is the fully insured for business use and I do a high proportion of business miles.
Would I be able to get the business rates through some loophole or am I dreaming?
Here we go again....As an example, I get a car allowance of circa £600 PCM from my employers. My own car is the fully insured for business use and I do a high proportion of business miles.
Would I be able to get the business rates through some loophole or am I dreaming?
ks saketleefox said:
Can anyone explain to me business leasing? My assumption was always unless you had your own company and we VAT registered you could not get business rates, which having seen a couple of posts on here seems to be wrong.
As an example, I get a car allowance of circa £600 PCM from my employers. My own car is the fully insured for business use and I do a high proportion of business miles.
Would I be able to get the business rates through some loophole or am I dreaming?
No.As an example, I get a car allowance of circa £600 PCM from my employers. My own car is the fully insured for business use and I do a high proportion of business miles.
Would I be able to get the business rates through some loophole or am I dreaming?
And besides, business rates are usually just cheaper because they can claim back the VAT so advertised with out.
The only difference is you may be able to get leases through companies such as Arval etc. because you have a "car allowance" rather than having to lease from someone else.
Snollygoster said:
No.
And besides, business rates are usually just cheaper because they can claim back the VAT so advertised with out.
The only difference is you may be able to get leases through companies such as Arval etc. because you have a "car allowance" rather than having to lease from someone else.
I'm afraid this isn't completely right, it very much used to be that the personal lease was the same as the business price but just with VAT added. This is still relevant on some lease deals, but most of them now have an extra bit as well for some reason.And besides, business rates are usually just cheaper because they can claim back the VAT so advertised with out.
The only difference is you may be able to get leases through companies such as Arval etc. because you have a "car allowance" rather than having to lease from someone else.
I speak from experience, I just handed back a Mercedes SLK which was on a personal deal. It was simply the business rate plus 20% VAT.
I've been trying to source the next one, but Mercedes finance ( and quite a few of the other finance companies) are now saying they change the system and it's not simply a matter of just adding 20% VAT, most of them have an additional amount as well.
Perfect example of this is the current SLK deals, check out the following:
http://www.freedomcontracts.com/Mercedes-SLK-200-C...
Essentially on a business deal it's £189.99 - if you simply add 20% VAT that car should be £228 or thereabouts.However if you click through to their personal deal for the identical car the monthly payment is £263.
Basically, you are a 'business user' if the lease company says you are.
Will they say you are? Ask them.
Some companies say that business rates are available only to registered companies; others will say self-employed and company directors as well; others will say they're OK if you have a car allowance as a separate line on your payslip and others will say that you only need to be able to claim mileage as an expense.
Unfortunately there's no way of knowing which stance any particular lease company will take. The second is the most common but there isn't a fixed meaning.
Will they say you are? Ask them.
Some companies say that business rates are available only to registered companies; others will say self-employed and company directors as well; others will say they're OK if you have a car allowance as a separate line on your payslip and others will say that you only need to be able to claim mileage as an expense.
Unfortunately there's no way of knowing which stance any particular lease company will take. The second is the most common but there isn't a fixed meaning.
Sorry for a newbie lease related question. I'm debating a Fiesta ST early in the new year - the lease prices are too tempting, and it ticks some boxes for me (i.e. I can fit it in my small garage!).
Do dealers typically do lease deals comparable to those on the lease sites, or do they instead only really do PCP / finance deals instead of lease? I'd prefer to go via a dealer so I can get a proper test drive, etc etc rather than a lease company.
Do dealers typically do lease deals comparable to those on the lease sites, or do they instead only really do PCP / finance deals instead of lease? I'd prefer to go via a dealer so I can get a proper test drive, etc etc rather than a lease company.
Chicane-UK said:
Sorry for a newbie lease related question. I'm debating a Fiesta ST early in the new year - the lease prices are too tempting, and it ticks some boxes for me (i.e. I can fit it in my small garage!).
Do dealers typically do lease deals comparable to those on the lease sites, or do they instead only really do PCP / finance deals instead of lease? I'd prefer to go via a dealer so I can get a proper test drive, etc etc rather than a lease company.
Some dealers could/would. Many of them are through dealers' fleet departments, so they won't deal with you, or the discounts needed to get the lease prices are so great that dealers would prefer to make more margin on fewer cars. Do dealers typically do lease deals comparable to those on the lease sites, or do they instead only really do PCP / finance deals instead of lease? I'd prefer to go via a dealer so I can get a proper test drive, etc etc rather than a lease company.
Ford dealers do do contract hire (through Arval I believe) so if you were able to get a cash discount off the deposit, that might work out, but you certainly can't rock up to your local dealer and pick off a price list like you can with a broker.
Of course if you want to look at a particular car, there's nothing stopping you evaluating all your options. Depending on your needs, a Fiesta ST with a big discount can be as good on Options or for cash as a lease deal.
JetskiJezz said:
I'm afraid this isn't completely right, it very much used to be that the personal lease was the same as the business price but just with VAT added. This is still relevant on some lease deals, but most of them now have an extra bit as well for some reason.
I speak from experience, I just handed back a Mercedes SLK which was on a personal deal. It was simply the business rate plus 20% VAT.
I've been trying to source the next one, but Mercedes finance ( and quite a few of the other finance companies) are now saying they change the system and it's not simply a matter of just adding 20% VAT, most of them have an additional amount as well.
Perfect example of this is the current SLK deals, check out the following:
http://www.freedomcontracts.com/Mercedes-SLK-200-C...
Essentially on a business deal it's £189.99 - if you simply add 20% VAT that car should be £228 or thereabouts.However if you click through to their personal deal for the identical car the monthly payment is £263.
Very true, but I was going for the simplest answer rather than getting into the details of it all for the hundredth time on this thread. In regards to the guys initial question, no he cannot get a business deal through a loop hole.I speak from experience, I just handed back a Mercedes SLK which was on a personal deal. It was simply the business rate plus 20% VAT.
I've been trying to source the next one, but Mercedes finance ( and quite a few of the other finance companies) are now saying they change the system and it's not simply a matter of just adding 20% VAT, most of them have an additional amount as well.
Perfect example of this is the current SLK deals, check out the following:
http://www.freedomcontracts.com/Mercedes-SLK-200-C...
Essentially on a business deal it's £189.99 - if you simply add 20% VAT that car should be £228 or thereabouts.However if you click through to their personal deal for the identical car the monthly payment is £263.
The reason personal contract hire rates can be higher is some have mandatory maintenance because most lease companies are adopting the policy of the average joe can't look after a car where a company can. This will also mean contributing a few more to their profits as personal deals are less cut throat over a few pence like a lot of business deals. Also, some manufactures do not offer PCH as want those people to go down a PCP route, so simply charge more for those doing PCH to retain some of the profit.
However, patricianly keeping up to date withe the Volkswagen Golf R stuff, there has been a lot of pressure on Volkswagen not to discriminate between personal and business users.
Chicane-UK said:
Sorry for a newbie lease related question. I'm debating a Fiesta ST early in the new year - the lease prices are too tempting, and it ticks some boxes for me (i.e. I can fit it in my small garage!).
Do dealers typically do lease deals comparable to those on the lease sites, or do they instead only really do PCP / finance deals instead of lease? I'd prefer to go via a dealer so I can get a proper test drive, etc etc rather than a lease company.
I've just gone through the same process. I had a quote from Gateway for a fiesta Eco Boost, Rang my Ford dealer who put me through to the commercial Vehicle dept who deal with all lease deals. Went in, test drove it and showed the quote i got and they gave me some quotes back but were £10 a month for expensive and not for the exact car so didn't go with it. Do dealers typically do lease deals comparable to those on the lease sites, or do they instead only really do PCP / finance deals instead of lease? I'd prefer to go via a dealer so I can get a proper test drive, etc etc rather than a lease company.
Anyone seen any good deals on big 'premium' diesel estates with quicker delivery times?
My dad had his eye on the new E350 BlueTec but the delivery time is March. His car got wrote off a few weeks ago so needs a replacement asap.
He's now looking at the E220 BlueTec and I'm trying to talk him out of it (7 gears and only 170bhp .. pah!).
My dad had his eye on the new E350 BlueTec but the delivery time is March. His car got wrote off a few weeks ago so needs a replacement asap.
He's now looking at the E220 BlueTec and I'm trying to talk him out of it (7 gears and only 170bhp .. pah!).
CYMR0 said:
Some dealers could/would. Many of them are through dealers' fleet departments, so they won't deal with you, or the discounts needed to get the lease prices are so great that dealers would prefer to make more margin on fewer cars.
Ford dealers do do contract hire (through Arval I believe) so if you were able to get a cash discount off the deposit, that might work out, but you certainly can't rock up to your local dealer and pick off a price list like you can with a broker.
Of course if you want to look at a particular car, there's nothing stopping you evaluating all your options. Depending on your needs, a Fiesta ST with a big discount can be as good on Options or for cash as a lease deal.
Thanks for that. I'd consider a traditional PCP deal with Ford but I liked the leases at 2 years (as I tend to get itchy feet / bored with cars - two years I could manage, four probably not so much) and the deposit is quite hefty to get the monthly payments reasonable. Ford dealers do do contract hire (through Arval I believe) so if you were able to get a cash discount off the deposit, that might work out, but you certainly can't rock up to your local dealer and pick off a price list like you can with a broker.
Of course if you want to look at a particular car, there's nothing stopping you evaluating all your options. Depending on your needs, a Fiesta ST with a big discount can be as good on Options or for cash as a lease deal.
I guess I'll wait till I've put together something resembling a deposit and then pop in to see them - not much point whilst I'm only thinking about it at this stage
Calza said:
Anyone seen any good deals on big 'premium' diesel estates with quicker delivery times?
My dad had his eye on the new E350 BlueTec but the delivery time is March. His car got wrote off a few weeks ago so needs a replacement asap.
He's now looking at the E220 BlueTec and I'm trying to talk him out of it (7 gears and only 170bhp .. pah!).
I wouldn't dismiss the E220. I accept it's no flying machine but in the cut and thrust of normal driving it holds it own and can certainly make lane 3 it's regular motorway habitat without issue. My dad had his eye on the new E350 BlueTec but the delivery time is March. His car got wrote off a few weeks ago so needs a replacement asap.
He's now looking at the E220 BlueTec and I'm trying to talk him out of it (7 gears and only 170bhp .. pah!).
50mpg to.
CYMR0 said:
Basically, you are a 'business user' if the lease company says you are.
Will they say you are? Ask them.
Some companies say that business rates are available only to registered companies; others will say self-employed and company directors as well; others will say they're OK if you have a car allowance as a separate line on your payslip and others will say that you only need to be able to claim mileage as an expense.
Unfortunately there's no way of knowing which stance any particular lease company will take. The second is the most common but there isn't a fixed meaning.
i think it's quite simply really. If the business is the name on the lease then it's a business lease, if it's a person then it's a personal lease. Any broker trying to tell you anything other than that is probably breaking the rules and you run the risk of your order being cancelled, or worse, you being found in breach of contract by the funder.Will they say you are? Ask them.
Some companies say that business rates are available only to registered companies; others will say self-employed and company directors as well; others will say they're OK if you have a car allowance as a separate line on your payslip and others will say that you only need to be able to claim mileage as an expense.
Unfortunately there's no way of knowing which stance any particular lease company will take. The second is the most common but there isn't a fixed meaning.
Thankyou4calling said:
Calza said:
Anyone seen any good deals on big 'premium' diesel estates with quicker delivery times?
My dad had his eye on the new E350 BlueTec but the delivery time is March. His car got wrote off a few weeks ago so needs a replacement asap.
He's now looking at the E220 BlueTec and I'm trying to talk him out of it (7 gears and only 170bhp .. pah!).
I wouldn't dismiss the E220. I accept it's no flying machine but in the cut and thrust of normal driving it holds it own and can certainly make lane 3 it's regular motorway habitat without issue. My dad had his eye on the new E350 BlueTec but the delivery time is March. His car got wrote off a few weeks ago so needs a replacement asap.
He's now looking at the E220 BlueTec and I'm trying to talk him out of it (7 gears and only 170bhp .. pah!).
50mpg to.
Edit - it sounds awful as well.
Calza said:
Anyone seen any good deals on big 'premium' diesel estates with quicker delivery times?
My dad had his eye on the new E350 BlueTec but the delivery time is March. His car got wrote off a few weeks ago so needs a replacement asap.
He's now looking at the E220 BlueTec and I'm trying to talk him out of it (7 gears and only 170bhp .. pah!).
speak to lease brokers about their sight of physical stock. You're better off consulting them as that situation will change daily. Anything from build will be 2 months plus, and in many cases considerably longer.My dad had his eye on the new E350 BlueTec but the delivery time is March. His car got wrote off a few weeks ago so needs a replacement asap.
He's now looking at the E220 BlueTec and I'm trying to talk him out of it (7 gears and only 170bhp .. pah!).
I've had a check on our stock list for E-Class Estates - hard to get hold of at the moment. There's one E220 Bluetec SE in Palladium Silver in stock now and a couple of E63 Estates - other than that, 3 months factory order.
- Edit* - also a C250 Bluetec Sport and some CLS 220 Bluetec Estates in stock.
Edited by rfoster on Wednesday 22 October 11:28
Hmm, conflicting opinions on the engine then! He's coming from an E250 CDI (the only reason he got that was because it was the most powerful engine he could get with the manual, but that options gone now).
The March thing was via Tilsun btw (on that cracking offer a few pages back). I just assumed they'd all be around the same?
The March thing was via Tilsun btw (on that cracking offer a few pages back). I just assumed they'd all be around the same?
Chicane-UK said:
CYMR0 said:
Some dealers could/would. Many of them are through dealers' fleet departments, so they won't deal with you, or the discounts needed to get the lease prices are so great that dealers would prefer to make more margin on fewer cars.
Ford dealers do do contract hire (through Arval I believe) so if you were able to get a cash discount off the deposit, that might work out, but you certainly can't rock up to your local dealer and pick off a price list like you can with a broker.
Of course if you want to look at a particular car, there's nothing stopping you evaluating all your options. Depending on your needs, a Fiesta ST with a big discount can be as good on Options or for cash as a lease deal.
Thanks for that. I'd consider a traditional PCP deal with Ford but I liked the leases at 2 years (as I tend to get itchy feet / bored with cars - two years I could manage, four probably not so much) and the deposit is quite hefty to get the monthly payments reasonable. Ford dealers do do contract hire (through Arval I believe) so if you were able to get a cash discount off the deposit, that might work out, but you certainly can't rock up to your local dealer and pick off a price list like you can with a broker.
Of course if you want to look at a particular car, there's nothing stopping you evaluating all your options. Depending on your needs, a Fiesta ST with a big discount can be as good on Options or for cash as a lease deal.
I guess I'll wait till I've put together something resembling a deposit and then pop in to see them - not much point whilst I'm only thinking about it at this stage
CYMR0 said:
Don't forget that if you managed to get a discount, some or all of that could come off the deposit. Don't just look at the headline figures; while leases are basically non-negotiable, PCP deals take the amount of the principal from the sale price of the car and are therefore just as negotiable as straight sales.
Thanks! I've never actually bought a new car before so I have no idea about this kind of stuff. What would be a realistic deposit amount that I should aim to go in with on something like a Fiesta ST? £2k? £3k?
richatnort said:
Chicane-UK said:
Sorry for a newbie lease related question. I'm debating a Fiesta ST early in the new year - the lease prices are too tempting, and it ticks some boxes for me (i.e. I can fit it in my small garage!).
Do dealers typically do lease deals comparable to those on the lease sites, or do they instead only really do PCP / finance deals instead of lease? I'd prefer to go via a dealer so I can get a proper test drive, etc etc rather than a lease company.
I've just gone through the same process. I had a quote from Gateway for a fiesta Eco Boost, Rang my Ford dealer who put me through to the commercial Vehicle dept who deal with all lease deals. Went in, test drove it and showed the quote i got and they gave me some quotes back but were £10 a month for expensive and not for the exact car so didn't go with it. Do dealers typically do lease deals comparable to those on the lease sites, or do they instead only really do PCP / finance deals instead of lease? I'd prefer to go via a dealer so I can get a proper test drive, etc etc rather than a lease company.
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