Best lease car deals available?

[Blown2CV]

N88 said:

xRIEx said:

gizlaroc said:

Blown2CV said:

oh my fking god are we actually doing this st again??? AGAIN?!?!

It wasn't me starting it.

I simply said "If you can lease it without BIK implications it seems a good price."

You really are deluded.

Why get so worked up about it?

Yes there are ways of doing it. Yes it's questionable if looked into wether HMRC would be happy with it. There are cases of people getting away with it and people not. You're not the PH tax advisor so just let people get on with making their own decisions.

Every time the letters BIK are mentioned everyone goes mental and it's bloody boring!

without any irony whatsoever, in explaining the thing you weren't doing again, you're fking doing it again.

Reasons to get worked up:

• It's off topic
• It hardly applies to anyone
• We've done it a million fking times
• Everyone apart from maybe 3 people on here think it's bks anyway
• It is bks
• Just stop

[N88]

Not disagreeing with you there - but you're as guilty as anyone for causing the conversation to revolve around BIK. In future, when someone mentions BIK (quite often a new guy who isn't aware of the several previous discussions) why not just carry on discussing the lease deal instead of 'Not this st again' which reopens the can of worms!

[theboss]

I don't think BIK is totally out of keeping with the thread thread given that, in the course of throwing up deals, the subject of business leases is discussed. It isn't a contentious subject - its actually very simple. There just seems to be repeated assertion of opinions that one can sign a business contract and somehow avoid the matter. If you can get a personal contract at a business rate by any means then that's great, but the only relevant factor is which party is bound by the contract. We now seem to be on the same page in saying that, if its the individual leasing the car, BIK is a non issue.

I think there needs to be clearer distinguishing between 'business vs personal' lease *prices*, and 'business vs personal' contract terms. When I sign a contract for my business its binding on the limited company. If there is credit risk they may want a guarantee from a director personally. I've not encountered the opposite scenario where the other party to a personal contract has offered to accept a limited company guarantor, and it seems counterintuitive that one might do so especially in the case of a small ltd.

In the case of a sole trader there is no business entity in legal terms, so any contract would be binding on the individual. Whether you would 'qualify' for preferential business rates is another matter but the contract would be structured a personal lease agreement not a business contract.

I took the Golf R deal based on this thread and will continue to keep an eye out for a second lease in the new year. I personally couldn't care less if the thread continues to discuss various aspects of leasing whilst interspersed with links to deals and figures. If we were looking at just pages and pages of links and numbers it would be a fairly useless thread.

[RYH64E]

Any way that any tax can be avoided is worthy of discussion in this or any other thread imo. Many on here seem to have a strange obsession with others paying the maximum amount of tax possible, a more minimalist approach towards tax would be better imo.

[theboss]

RYH64E said:

Any way that any tax can be avoided is worthy of discussion in this or any other thread imo. Many on here seem to have a strange obsession with others paying the maximum amount of tax possible, a more minimalist approach towards tax would be better imo.

I don't think that's fair tbh. I aggressively avoid BIK taxes by not putting a car through my company in any shape or form. Avoiding a tax involves *avoiding* the liability. Ignoring a liability is evasion.

Most people I've spoken to PH on this thread or any other have generally been in the low tax camp. There are a few screaming lefties for sure, but PH is not a haven for them.

[Blown2CV]

RYH64E said:

Any way that any tax can be avoided is worthy of discussion in this or any other thread imo. Many on here seem to have a strange obsession with others paying the maximum amount of tax possible, a more minimalist approach towards tax would be better imo.

you are utterly wrong.

[WWESTY]

Why is it that someone who has actually spoken to IR is wrong, but people offering opinions are always right...??

[gizlaroc]

xRIEx said:

You really are deluded.

OK.

[theboss]

WWESTY said:

Why is it that someone who has actually spoken to IR is wrong, but people offering opinions are always right...??

As usual, its not as black and white as that, but don't worry just jump to your conclusion. If he can get it in writing from HMRC that he can have his *company* sign a car lease and avoid BIK arising from personal use, we'd all love to see it and I - for one - will change my strategy to business lease rather than personal and thank everyone profusely and humbly for showing me the error of my ways.

The reality is that he's phoned HMRC and outlined some convoluted, purely hypothetical scenario where a lease company accepts a company 'guarantor' on a personal lease contract and lowers the price to match business rates (despite the fact that most of them are priced same now anyway), and the HMRC helpline operator has looked up the rules the rest of us have already read and understood, and said "er... personal lease... no BIK...". i.e. what many of us have been fking saying all along.

[RYH64E]

theboss said:

If he can get it in writing from HMRC that he can have his *company* sign a car lease and avoid BIK arising from personal use, we'd all love to see it and I - for one - will change my strategy to business lease rather than personal and thank everyone profusely and humbly for showing me the error of my ways.

More likely the self appointed thread police would just bh about taking the thread off topic again.

[burwoodman]

theboss said:

WWESTY said:

Why is it that someone who has actually spoken to IR is wrong, but people offering opinions are always right...??

As usual, its not as black and white as that, but don't worry just jump to your conclusion. If he can get it in writing from HMRC that he can have his *company* sign a car lease and avoid BIK arising from personal use, we'd all love to see it and I - for one - will change my strategy to business lease rather than personal and thank everyone profusely and humbly for showing me the error of my ways.

The reality is that he's phoned HMRC and outlined some convoluted, purely hypothetical scenario where a lease company accepts a company 'guarantor' on a personal lease contract and lowers the price to match business rates (despite the fact that most of them are priced same now anyway), and the HMRC helpline operator has looked up the rules the rest of us have already read and understood, and said "er... personal lease... no BIK...". i.e. what many of us have been fking saying all along.

This. Taxation is complex and interpretation includes substance over form. Eg if a someone enters into a contract with the primary objective to mitigate taxation it can be deemed illegal. This thread is 'cheap lease deals', not 'avoid Bik on lease deals'

[gizlaroc]

You're all big boys now, you can all make decisions for yourself, you can all pick up the phone and talk to HMRC or to lease companies.

Most will offer personal terms matching the business rates, many don't want to, some will match them with a guarantee that if the person taking it out looses his job etc. the company they work for will take it over.

Edit: and vice versa, I have been guarantor on business leases, saying if the company disappeared I would personally take it over. That was to get the really low rates. That was lease purchase, but same sort of thing.


All I said the other day was ....

gizlaroc said:

If you can get round the BIK go for it.

£592+vat sounds about right.

Have you enquired on a a pcp with a new one?



If it were me I would get the company to guarantee it, this allows you to get business rates, and then pay for it personally, avoiding BIK.
You can then up your dividend or wages to cover the cost and pay yourself 45p per miles to cover the 'business' miles you are doing, this could cover at least half of the monthly payments maybe more.

I stand by all that.

The guy was asking advice on an RS4 and whether the BIK would kill the deal, it would, and that is how I would do it.


Then you lot fly off on one again. fkin' hilarious.

[Blown2CV]

WWESTY said:

Why is it that someone who has actually spoken to IR is wrong, but people offering opinions are always right...??

wrong about everywhere being the right place to discuss tax (it's fking boring, and fking off topic), and wrong about people not thinking that vigorously bending or even breaking the rules is the same thing as wanting to pay the maximum amount of tax. Also, it's morally wrong (see - the news, every day).

[Blown2CV]

RYH64E said:

theboss said:

If he can get it in writing from HMRC that he can have his *company* sign a car lease and avoid BIK arising from personal use, we'd all love to see it and I - for one - will change my strategy to business lease rather than personal and thank everyone profusely and humbly for showing me the error of my ways.

More likely the self appointed thread police would just bh about taking the thread off topic again.

ah there we have it, the most annoying phrase a forum participant can utter. Everyone who participates in a thread has the right to say so when it's going off in the wrong direction - no one is better than anyone else, just those that are doing the wrong thing, and those that want everyone to do the right thing. Or would you prefer every thread to be about everything so we can also have a nice communist utopia i.e. fking chaotic mess?

[gizlaroc]

What are you looking to lease at the moment Blown2CV?

[RYH64E]

Blown2CV said:

ah there we have it, the most annoying phrase a forum participant can utter. Everyone who participates in a thread has the right to say so when it's going off in the wrong direction - no one is better than anyone else, just those that are doing the wrong thing, and those that want everyone to do the right thing. Or would you prefer every thread to be about everything so we can also have a nice communist utopia i.e. fking chaotic mess?

Matters relating to lease deals don't seem particularly out of place in a thread on lease deals, and BIK is an issue that can determine whether a particular deal is the 'Best lease deal available' or not for many people.

I suspect that, like myself, many posters dip into this thread when they're looking for a deal, stay for a while, then leave it alone until they want another, so recurrent topics largely pass most by. A few pages of filling here and there isn't really a big deal imo, it's not exactly compulsive reading even on a good day...

[Blown2CV]

gizlaroc said:

What are you looking to lease at the moment Blown2CV?

i've got mine. Washed and armourall'd it today ready for Winter, and it's fking great, really cheap, couldn't be happier. Personal lease, no ttting around. Saw it, got it, no endless deliberation and debating what's acceptable or not before 'pulling the trigger' as it were. You?

[Blown2CV]

RYH64E said:

Blown2CV said:

ah there we have it, the most annoying phrase a forum participant can utter. Everyone who participates in a thread has the right to say so when it's going off in the wrong direction - no one is better than anyone else, just those that are doing the wrong thing, and those that want everyone to do the right thing. Or would you prefer every thread to be about everything so we can also have a nice communist utopia i.e. fking chaotic mess?

Matters relating to lease deals don't seem particularly out of place in a thread on lease deals, and BIK is an issue that can determine whether a particular deal is the 'Best lease deal available' or not for many people.

I suspect that, like myself, many posters dip into this thread when they're looking for a deal, stay for a while, then leave it alone until they want another, so recurrent topics largely pass most by. A few pages of filling here and there isn't really a big deal imo, it's not exactly compulsive reading even on a good day...

how much BIK a car incurs yes. Endless discussions on avoidance of BIK no.

[RYH64E]

Blown2CV said:

how much BIK a car incurs yes. Endless discussions on avoidance of BIK no.

And as official thread monitor your decision's final?

[Chicane-UK]

Just thought I'd mention a positive experience today at my local Ford dealer. Went in to enquire about leasing and whilst they did try and steer me towards a PCP deal instead, said that they would do lease and basically should be able to match any deal I can find online. I gave some example figures I'd seen on Gateway2Lease for the Fiesta ST-3 and he did seem surprised at how good the prices were but said he was sure they could match it.

Needless to be say I'll be popping back to see them once christmas is out of the way to sort a deal out!