En bloc garage with a light (no plug socket)

[mark seeker]

I have recently moved and with the flat I've got an en bloc garage with a light bulb / switch, perfect I thought, I need to get a plug socket in here to keep my battery conditioner ticking over winter for the car.

I had a cursory look at the light and noticed it wasn't earthed, just a black and yellow wire going to it so I decided to call in the professionals (before I get flamed).

Tonight my electrician came to the garage to install a plug socket for me, after a while he discovered that the antiquated wiring had no earth. He installed the socket and has however taken an earth from the metal frame of the garage door but advised me as this isn't an official earth (the socket tester was happy - http://www.testermans.co.uk/socket-testers/Audible... he told me to be safe I should run a RCD for my battery conditioner (C-Tek).

I was just wondering on people's thoughts? Does this RCD suffice in this low ampage application or is there an alternative / is this dangerous?

[andy43]

I'm not an electrician either, but taking the earth to the garage door is nothing short of lunacy. In my non-qualified opinion. Lowest rating fuse in the charger plug that you can find, and don't use the garage door when it's raining....

[mark seeker]

andy43 said:

I'm not an electrician either, but taking the earth to the garage door is nothing short of lunacy. In my non-qualified opinion. Lowest rating fuse in the charger plug that you can find, and don't use the garage door when it's raining....

It did seem odd to me, I paid a professional as I'm not one! With an RCD and a low amp fuse what is the worst can happen?

[andy43]

I'm not sure but I don't think an rcd would work without an earth?, although it's residual current comparing n to l so maybe it would?
Introducing a metal garage door into the equation seems more than a bit weird, unless he spotted it has a steel frame going down into the ground a couple of feet - maybe wait for somebody qualified to comment!

[sampsan]

Get a proper electrician with proper test equipment, socket tester is for diy use and not sufficient.

Have you been issued a minor works cert, where did the power for the socket come from if is only a light / switch in the unit?

[King Herald]

Sounds like a whole bunch of paranoia to me! What exactly can you 'earth' on an all plastic light socket?

I assume it IS a simple plastic bulb holder device?




Awaits humiliation when a real electrician rolls in.....

[megaphone]

Did the 'electrician' fit a fused spur before the socket? You should not fit a 13A socket directly to a lighting circuit, which is likely only rated at 6A.

[Bristol spark]

That was no "electrician" you had.

Unless the garage door is properly earthed its self, which is incredibly unlikely.

Any fault current from the socket will be going into the garage door, until someone touches it, then it will be earthed, via the person touching it!!

The RCD wont work until enough current is going to earth.


If your lucky there is some ducting going to the garage that you can pull some new cabling through.

Get someone who knows what they are doing.

Edited by Bristol spark on Wednesday 26th October 07:52

[mark seeker]

Many thanks for the feedback, I’ll combine the answers – I have added a photo as this may make it clearer.

I was not issued with a minor works certificate, the chap took the power from meter / box.

The 'electrician' fitted a plug box directly to the meter/box above, there was no breaker, fusebox or anything installed (I don’t have a photo of this).

If anyone knows of a good electrician in North London please let me know!

[sampsan]

You will need an elctrician (sorry can't help finding one) any new install i.e. socket would need to meet current regs and include RCD protction. Presume overcurrent protection and isolation switch etc is included upstream of the meter as nothing apparant on the picture. Does someone else control a main meter and distribution board for all the garages with protection installed for each circuit / garage?

Existing installations need updating if any work is completed, earthing will need installing and testing properly along with sutiable protection and an installation and testing cert issued to cover.

As also pointed out lighting and power circuits should be seperate and an earth requires running back to the point of supply and if not possible by an earth rod installation.

Also can't see how you could safely isolate your installation as no switch visible, assuming you have no access into any othr distribution board.

[King Herald]

mark seeker said:

The 'electrician' fitted a plug box directly to the meter/box above, there was no breaker, fusebox or anything installed (I don’t have a photo of this).

If anyone knows of a good electrician in North London please let me know!

There is a meter on each garage to monitor electric light bulb usage?

I'd wager that could be the central point for a reasonable little PH style garage system; some power outlets and better lights. And once you have a 'proper' electrician involved it wouldn't cost you much more to do it than just it will to get the one light socket/outlet done by Mr Cowboy made legal.

[mark seeker]

Appreciate everyone's input, the meter in the garage I think is from a bygone period, the electricity is billed to all garage owners (literally just the cost evenly split by 30 garages). I guess it was considered overkill to get all owners to check their meter (when there is only a light bulb inside).

I have drafted an email to the managing agent today enquiring how I can make a legal plug socket a reality. I think to get access to the main power box for all the garages will involve a conversation with them. I could ideally do with asking other owners if they have a 240v power point in theirs but I haven't really seen anyone in / out of their unit.

[ruggedscotty]

Please.

Get an electrician in asap to sort out the 'earth' connection to the garage door. This may kill someone.

some of the comments in here are 'shocking'. You dont need an earth wire for an rcd to work. The uk electricity network has the neutral grounded at the supply. An RCD works by detecting an imbalance in the electrical circuit current. if you have a light on you will have flow of amps, the rcd checks that what is going in comes out. any imbalance over 30mA will result in the rcd tripping. This all needs to be checked out to ensure that it is wired correctly and within regulations.

It may be at the point you need to have the electrical installation upgraded. the feed to the garage identifed and upgraded etc. proper consumer unit put in and the earthing all made compliant. Id get in a quote and put to the other garage owners to club together.

if you are looking to attach a battery charger then id be ok with a 13A wall socket but this if connected to the existing wiring id run it through a 3A switch fuse just so that you dont try and plug in anything more.

But as I said get that earth to the garage door sorted out as that could kill someone. it is a big risk.

[elanfan]

I'm wondering how a garage can be let with such an out of date electrical supply/system. Surely there has to be some sort of electrical safety check of the entire property you are renting every so often. Wouldn't that fail? Must be landlords or managing agents problem shouldn't it?

[ruggedscotty]

yes they should adhere to the current electrical regulations, As all electrical installations need to comply. Thing is you get folks with a wee bit of knowledge going in and throwing in what they need to make it attractive or get folks to rent etc. as long as it works etc etc etc.

notice got a meter so he can charge for the leccy but low and behold its not installed in a safe manner. no containment for the cables around the meter. No available earth no information etc....

old wiring ? Id be very careful indeed.

As said proper electrician in and get him to survey it and quote you for getting it up to spec.

AND PLEASE DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT FLAMMING EARTH TO THE GARAGE DOOR !!!!

[Simpo Two]

I'm sure I've seen an earth wire running to a big metal stake in the ground (which is after all where 'earth' goes. Is that still acceptable? (I am not an electrician)

[StoatInACoat]

Simpo Two said:

I'm sure I've seen an earth wire running to a big metal stake in the ground (which is after all where 'earth' goes. Is that still acceptable? (I am not an electrician)

That's an Earth Rod. Often suggested with shed builds etc but there's a lot of regulation I didn't really understand or be arsed to read as to when you should or shouldn't us one. More complicated than just wacking a pole in the ground anyway sadly. That incoming supply doesn't look like it has an Earth anyway.

My own system is wired with buried armoured cable and the armour itself works as the earth (if installed properly!)

[Royce44]

The rod in the ground is an earth rod. Its a type of farthing system commonly used in countryside installs. The grid are very slowly phasing them out and installing tns/this.

[Smiler.]

Simpo Two said:

I'm sure I've seen an earth wire running to a big metal stake in the ground (which is after all where 'earth' goes. Is that still acceptable? (I am not an electrician)

That will be a TT system & has a particular set or rules & conditions to be satisfied.

mark seeker said:

Appreciate everyone's input, the meter in the garage I think is from a bygone period, the electricity is billed to all garage owners (literally just the cost evenly split by 30 garages). I guess it was considered overkill to get all owners to check their meter (when there is only a light bulb inside).

I have drafted an email to the managing agent today enquiring how I can make a legal plug socket a reality. I think to get access to the main power box for all the garages will involve a conversation with them. I could ideally do with asking other owners if they have a 240v power point in theirs but I haven't really seen anyone in / out of their unit.

As others have said, the present risk of the "earthed garage door" is one that needs to be addressed ASAP.

The landlord is in severe danger of a court appearance even without a fatality occurring.


For clarification, if the lamp holder is of the "batten holder" type (with no exposed conductive parts) or similar complying with said requirements, then an earth connection or cable (Circuit Protective Conductor) is not required to said fitting.

However, every other wiring point in the installation is required to have an earth connection/CPC. As soon as an electrical item with an exposed conductive part is added to the installation (like now), it becomes dangerous. The meter counts as a wiring point as does a light switch.

Also, the rule about "no exposed conductive parts" does not apply to an all insulated socket outlet (weatherproof types) as one cannot guarantee what appliance with be plugged in.

One more thing, modern DNO underground single-phase & neutral supplies to consumers user a combined neutral-earth.

[mark seeker]

Again many thanks - I'm waiting to hear from the Managing Agents so we'll see what they say in terms of rectifying the situation.

With regards to the earthed garage, I will disconnect the 'earth' this weekend.

It does seem odd that the garages haven't been updated to comply with current regulations.