Used 4 doors saloon, RWD, manual and affordable?
Discussion
Shifter1 said:
Well, to be honest I never asked anybody to look for cars for me.;)
It's nice people have taken the time to do it. But I asked for model suggestions so I could look myself, for the very same reason you mentioned above.
The thing is, of course they exist. But that is very different from there being plenty. If I would find a nice example I would maybe be willing to drive hours to look at it. But I'm definitely not looking for a project car.
Because they are so difficult to find is the reason I didn't even include them in my considerations in my original post. The other problem with them is that they will probably have been abused. Most who would buy a manual probably would abuse them or they would buy an auto. Now with cars where manuals are more common or the standard this is less of a problem.
True! it's just hard to meet your criteria, so it seems that there will have to be a compromise of some kind, or you can wait forever for the right, rare car. It could be next week or five years!It's nice people have taken the time to do it. But I asked for model suggestions so I could look myself, for the very same reason you mentioned above.
The thing is, of course they exist. But that is very different from there being plenty. If I would find a nice example I would maybe be willing to drive hours to look at it. But I'm definitely not looking for a project car.
Because they are so difficult to find is the reason I didn't even include them in my considerations in my original post. The other problem with them is that they will probably have been abused. Most who would buy a manual probably would abuse them or they would buy an auto. Now with cars where manuals are more common or the standard this is less of a problem.
The Jaguar X300 XJR would be excellent, but they didn't make them past 1997
s m said:
Merc E280s came up in numbers with a manual box, lhd - only 200ish bhp though
I remember a friend asking similar years back - found him a rare special order 4-litre Jag XJ ( manual ) - he didn't want a 6-pot XJR
Edited by s m on Saturday 10th December 16:25
Jimmy Recard said:
True! it's just hard to meet your criteria, so it seems that there will have to be a compromise of some kind, or you can wait forever for the right, rare car. It could be next week or five years!
The Jaguar X300 XJR would be excellent, but they didn't make them past 1997
I know it's hard. Hence why I came to a forum. Otherwise I would have done it without asking for suggestions. The Jaguar X300 XJR would be excellent, but they didn't make them past 1997
About the X300, that's a proper barge! Doesn't it really handle like a boat?
But the main thing I don't want is the retro style.
But even if all the above and the age would be discounted, Jags are cheap in the UK. Here they are not. Because they are special here. Similar to how Audis and BMWs are a bigger deal in the UK.
So the saying, if you can't afford a new Jag you can't afford an old one, is even more true here. Give up on finding a local garage to work on it. You are probably tied to the authorized dealerships and that is expensive.
On top of that I can't see a XJR being cheap here. Also most XJRs were automatics. So we are again in the same situation as the Omega. Regular X300s are maybe easier to find with a manual. I haven't looked. But can't think they are cheap to buy or to run around here.
Shifter1 said:
But who wants an early 2000's Merc? They are rust buckets. Also does the E280 really puts out even 200bhp? Maybe I'm thinking of the earlier W124 260 E and 280 E, but I thought it was more like 160bhp.
Nah, the 2.8 18v V6 model - 200bhp so similar to the 3 litre Omega - as belowhttp://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=...
s m said:
Nah, the 2.8 18v V6 model - 200bhp so similar to the 3 litre Omega - as below
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=...
OK. That's already the V6. I thought maybe the early W211 still used the straight 6. http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=...
But that year model of E Class are infamous for rust and problems.
Jimmy Recard said:
If it's not very rusty now, it's unlikely to become rusty soon and suddenly, I would say.
By the way, Audis and BMWs definitely aren't special cars or expensive to maintain in the UK
Using your example, a Jaguar is far more special and rare than an Audi or BMW here
But they are cheap to buy there and pretty much any old garage there can work on them. There are Jag mechanics everywhere. Here not. It's not that they are special like in people think they are great cars or high end cars. They don't. They look at them almost like they look at American cars. It's a foreign car.By the way, Audis and BMWs definitely aren't special cars or expensive to maintain in the UK
Using your example, a Jaguar is far more special and rare than an Audi or BMW here
I meant they are special in the sense that there are not many around so if you need repairs you are basically going to have to pay dealer prices. If you need parts you have to buy new. Not enough around to support a used parts market really. You're not going to find somebody who knows a Jag mechanic so you can get a break.
Basically when you buy a Jag here, you are trying to be different. So you will pay the price accordingly and people will look at you as such. Although the later I don't care. Jags don't have a bad reputation here. They basically have no reputation as there are not enough around. Only old time car fans still think they are bad, unreliable and expensive to maintain and repair.
It is the only car that fits all your criteria apart from not a BMW and it's cheap and plentiful. I can see the sense in buying an Omega when they were nearly new, as the cost-saving between a 1 year old Omega and a 1 year old 5-Series would have been huge but there's a good reason why there aren't many Omegas left. They weren't that desirable when they were new and the BMW is by far the better built and better driving car. These days the price difference between an old 5-series and an old Omega would be negligible.
Debaser said:
Why don't you want a 5 series?
Ok. I've been avoiding this question so far because I don't mean to offend anybody. But I guess it won't stop coming till I answer. It's a personal thing. I mean, do BMW and their drivers have a good reputation where you live? Here all of the a**hats seem to drive them. Of course it won't be every single person who drives one. But enough to give the cars a really bad reputation. The old ones are driven by punk a**hats and the new ones by snob a**hats.
For whatever reason BMWs really seem to attract that type of people. Passat drivers, Skoda drivers or even Mercedes drivers don't have that reputation. But then again they don't behave like BMW drivers.
Honestly I just don't want and don't need to be associated with this type of people in any shape or form.
Also, I never particularly liked the way the cars look anyway. Don't much car at all. I was just never attracted to them apart from the special ones such as the M1 and the like.
Edited by Shifter1 on Monday 12th December 23:23
Shifter, you've looked at all the options. The only other thing I can think of is the Panamera and I guess these aren't affordable enough yet; and probably a bit small and may not be many manuals - I have no idea!!
Looks like you'll have to compromise on something. If you would let go of either RWD, manual or no BMWs, you'd have a lot of choices. Either that, or wait for the one in a million car you seem to be looking for.
I sort of get why you don't like BMWs. Not sure the drivers are quite so bad here, but they have a certain reputation and I've driven a couple of 3 Sieries models in the past and wondered what the fuss was about.
You do seem to want something that doesn't exist.
Looks like you'll have to compromise on something. If you would let go of either RWD, manual or no BMWs, you'd have a lot of choices. Either that, or wait for the one in a million car you seem to be looking for.
I sort of get why you don't like BMWs. Not sure the drivers are quite so bad here, but they have a certain reputation and I've driven a couple of 3 Sieries models in the past and wondered what the fuss was about.
You do seem to want something that doesn't exist.
Shifter1 said:
Debaser said:
Why don't you want a 5 series?
Ok. I've been avoiding this question so far because I don't mean to offend anybody. But I guess it won't stop coming till I answer. It's a personal thing. I mean, do BMW and their drivers have a good reputation where you live? Here all of the a**hats seem to drive them. Of course it won't be every single person who drives one. But enough to give the cars a really bad reputation. The old ones are driven by punk a**hats and the new ones by snob a**hats.
For whatever reason BMWs really seem to attract that type of people. Passat drivers, Skoda drivers or even Mercedes drivers don't have that reputation. But then again they don't behave like BMW drivers.
Honestly I just don't want and don't need to be associated with this type of people in any shape or form.
Also, I never particularly liked the way the cars look anyway. Don't much car at all. I was just never attracted to them apart from the special ones such as the M1 and the like.
Edited by Shifter1 on Monday 12th December 23:23
Where I live I think Audi drivers have a worse reputation than BMW drivers.
Frankthered said:
Shifter, you've looked at all the options. The only other thing I can think of is the Panamera and I guess these aren't affordable enough yet; and probably a bit small and may not be many manuals - I have no idea!!
Looks like you'll have to compromise on something. If you would let go of either RWD, manual or no BMWs, you'd have a lot of choices. Either that, or wait for the one in a million car you seem to be looking for.
I sort of get why you don't like BMWs. Not sure the drivers are quite so bad here, but they have a certain reputation and I've driven a couple of 3 Sieries models in the past and wondered what the fuss was about.
You do seem to want something that doesn't exist.
I really don't want to let go from manual. Concerning the RWD, even if I would switch to AWD I think it would be just as difficult. Because then I would have to exclude Audi and VW, because I already have one. Looks like you'll have to compromise on something. If you would let go of either RWD, manual or no BMWs, you'd have a lot of choices. Either that, or wait for the one in a million car you seem to be looking for.
I sort of get why you don't like BMWs. Not sure the drivers are quite so bad here, but they have a certain reputation and I've driven a couple of 3 Sieries models in the past and wondered what the fuss was about.
You do seem to want something that doesn't exist.
But I will not go for FWD. Not a chance.
Debaser said:
Fair enough, I never pay attention to how others might perceive my choice of car, and I wouldn't avoid a car that suits my needs for fear someone might think I'm a snob (or punk asshat).
Where I live I think Audi drivers have a worse reputation than BMW drivers.
Yep. Here the Audi drivers are working hard to take the spot from the BMW drivers.Where I live I think Audi drivers have a worse reputation than BMW drivers.
I guess the BMW drivers just had a very long head start.
white_goodman said:
So OP, have you admitted defeat and bought a 5-Series yet?
Hard to believe but some people don't like BMW. I've had a 3, 5, 7 and M5. All bored me to pieces and were sold within 12 months. Each to there own, but I just can't get on with them.The only thing I actively miss was the hand crafted interior of the hand-built M5 - it was stunning; clearly only the finest baby soft cows were allowed to give their lives for it.
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