Used 4 doors saloon, RWD, manual and affordable?
Discussion
exelero said:
Certainly and they still keep working on it 
It's really hilarious in a sad way how the stereotype fits them. Today I was driving down a residential road with a 30km/h speed limit. All of a sudden, without warning or without using his indicator, the car parked on the street just a few meters away from me comes out and blocks me and proceeds to do a 3-point turn as quick as he can, as if he was a cop in a hurry to catch a criminal or something. I had to brake to wait for him, which in his small brain I'm sure seemed like the right thing. Then he blasts pasts me like he just robbed a bank, probably already doing 50km/h, again in a narrow residential street with a 30km/h speed limit.
What was he driving? You guessed. Silver E39. The E39 seems to be the worst. I guess it's cheap enough now that anybody can get one and they just think they are hot sh8t because they drive an old big BMW.
Gladly there were no children on the street at the time.
Edited by Shifter1 on Thursday 15th December 12:49
OverSteery said:
white_goodman said:
So OP, have you admitted defeat and bought a 5-Series yet?
Hard to believe but some people don't like BMW. I've had a 3, 5, 7 and M5. All bored me to pieces and were sold within 12 months. Each to there own, but I just can't get on with them.The only thing I actively miss was the hand crafted interior of the hand-built M5 - it was stunning; clearly only the finest baby soft cows were allowed to give their lives for it.
Either way at least you opinion is based on actual experience (although quite why you would buy 4 of them before coming to your conclusion seem a bit odd), the OP's dislike is purely based on childish stereotypes and an irrational dislike of the brand as he admits.
If you want a RWD large exec car with a manual gearbox that is enjoyable to drive then the 5 is still obviously the best choice.
Shifter1 said:
SWoll said:
the OP's dislike is purely based on childish stereotypes...
It would be great if BMW drivers spent more time trying to prove the childish stereotypes wrong instead of reinforcing them. 
Up to you of course, just seems very silly to me.
SWoll said:
But why on earth does it matter even if the stereotype is true? If it's the best car available to you that meets your requirements and might actually be available surely you'd have to be a complete idiot to discount it for the reasons given? And if you got one perhaps you could help turn the tide?
Up to you of course, just seems very silly to me.
IF it was the perfect car for me. But it's not. Like I said I never cared or liked them independently of the reputation and I specially despise the interiors, especially the E39. So I wouldn't be happy driving it. Up to you of course, just seems very silly to me.
Shifter1 said:
SWoll said:
But why on earth does it matter even if the stereotype is true? If it's the best car available to you that meets your requirements and might actually be available surely you'd have to be a complete idiot to discount it for the reasons given? And if you got one perhaps you could help turn the tide?
Up to you of course, just seems very silly to me.
IF it was the perfect car for me. But it's not. Like I said I never cared or liked them independently of the reputation and I specially despise the interiors, especially the E39. So I wouldn't be happy driving it. Up to you of course, just seems very silly to me.
Especially in comparison to a contemporary E Class
or Omega
As above though, each to their own.
Mike335i said:
That e39 interior is really nice, much nicer than current Mercedes! Mind you, that Omega interior is also much nicer than the merc, even factoring in unflattering images.
Yes, THAT e39 interior is above average. Because SWoll's post is biased and agenda filling. But if you buy an e39 today your interior won't look like that 99% of the time.SWoll, I'm sure you could have found a better W210 interior as well as hundreds of worse e39 ones. You basically took the best e39 interior you could find in a Google image search and the worst W210 one to make your point. Much of an agenda there?
First of all the interior you posted is a facelift e39 interior. Facelift cars came out in 2001, which means only the last 2 years of production will have that interior. The first 6 years will look different. Furthermore, you took a M5 interior. LOL. So why not take a late Brabus or AMG W210 interior as well?
Going by SWoll's standard of "fair comparison" we can look at this:
e39 interior the huge majority of them will have. Meaning pre facelift non M5 ones:
Mercedes W210 upscale interior:
Design taste is in the eye of the beholder. But it's hard to say the e39 interior above is nicer than the W210 interiors above.
Design wise I prefer the W210 anyhow. But let's at least be fair when posting pictures. It's insulting to people's intelligence to think you are the smarter one of the bunch SWoll, and nobody would notice what you did there. Or do you think you are the only one who can use Google???
As I said, factoring flattering images in still leaves me favouring the BMW. I searched myself for a comparable W210 to that M5 and there aren't really any that stack up.
As I also said, a late Vauxhall Omega is nicer than the W210.
Also need to say that, as a courteous BMW driver, I resent the inferences and stereotypes cast. It is plainly obvious that obnoxious drivers have far more varied tastes than before and can't really be tied to one marque any more. I see many selfish and terrible drivers in Nissan, Mercedes, AUDI, Vauxhall, Land Rover etc etc.
As I also said, a late Vauxhall Omega is nicer than the W210.
Also need to say that, as a courteous BMW driver, I resent the inferences and stereotypes cast. It is plainly obvious that obnoxious drivers have far more varied tastes than before and can't really be tied to one marque any more. I see many selfish and terrible drivers in Nissan, Mercedes, AUDI, Vauxhall, Land Rover etc etc.
Edited by Mike335i on Friday 16th December 18:36
Mike335i said:
As I said, factoring flattering images in still leaves me favouring the BMW. I searched myself for a comparable W210 to that M5 and there aren't really any that stack up.
Yes. It's in the eye of the beholder. I much prefer the Mercedes. Understated, classy, doesn't try hard. If I want something with more panache I would not mess with a German car. Germans can't do that well. I would just go for Italian. But my point was the attempt of overstating the BMW by pitching the best picture of an e39 interior which absolutely doesn't represent the majority of e39 interiors out there against a bad picture of a W210 interior.
Just to clarify my last 4 cars have included 2 x E Class and 2 x 5 Series. Rather than an agenda I speak from having spent many of thousands of miles driving both models and living with them day to day, and if you forget about all of this image and stereotype nonsense the 5 Series is both the nicer place to spend time and the better car to drive IMHO.
I have no vested interest in either marque, I just judge cars on how they perform based on my needs. As an example my wife currently runs the new C Class as we were both unimpressed with the 3 series when we test drove one and I've got an A6 Avant on order as my next company car as fancied a change and it ticked all the important boxes for me.
I discount the Omega as my FIL ran a V6 model for about 5 years and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't bear comparison to the E or 5. Awful, rattly, wallowy load of junk.
I have no vested interest in either marque, I just judge cars on how they perform based on my needs. As an example my wife currently runs the new C Class as we were both unimpressed with the 3 series when we test drove one and I've got an A6 Avant on order as my next company car as fancied a change and it ticked all the important boxes for me.
I discount the Omega as my FIL ran a V6 model for about 5 years and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't bear comparison to the E or 5. Awful, rattly, wallowy load of junk.
SWoll said:
OverSteery said:
white_goodman said:
So OP, have you admitted defeat and bought a 5-Series yet?
Hard to believe but some people don't like BMW. I've had a 3, 5, 7 and M5. All bored me to pieces and were sold within 12 months. Each to there own, but I just can't get on with them.The only thing I actively miss was the hand crafted interior of the hand-built M5 - it was stunning; clearly only the finest baby soft cows were allowed to give their lives for it.
Either way at least you opinion is based on actual experience (although quite why you would buy 4 of them before coming to your conclusion seem a bit odd), the OP's dislike is purely based on childish stereotypes and an irrational dislike of the brand as he admits.
If you want a RWD large exec car with a manual gearbox that is enjoyable to drive then the 5 is still obviously the best choice.
Holden/HSV was less obvious choice and much more fun. 2 so far and Love them
SWoll said:
Just to clarify my last 4 cars have included 2 x E Class and 2 x 5 Series. Rather than an agenda I speak from having spent many of thousands of miles driving both models and living with them day to day, and if you forget about all of this image and stereotype nonsense the 5 Series is both the nicer place to spend time and the better car to drive IMHO.
I have no vested interest in either marque, I just judge cars on how they perform based on my needs. As an example my wife currently runs the new C Class as we were both unimpressed with the 3 series when we test drove one and I've got an A6 Avant on order as my next company car as fancied a change and it ticked all the important boxes for me.
I discount the Omega as my FIL ran a V6 model for about 5 years and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't bear comparison to the E or 5. Awful, rattly, wallowy load of junk.
I don't agree at all with your opinion of the Omega. If it's a 4 cylinders diesel I would pass. But a 3.0 or 3.2 V6 (it's a petro) in Elite trim is very comfortable, very well put together with a full leather interior and all the amenities like dual front airbags, side airbags, TC, EPC, ABS and the full package. I would take it any day over a rusty and problematic W210 or an e39. I have no vested interest in either marque, I just judge cars on how they perform based on my needs. As an example my wife currently runs the new C Class as we were both unimpressed with the 3 series when we test drove one and I've got an A6 Avant on order as my next company car as fancied a change and it ticked all the important boxes for me.
I discount the Omega as my FIL ran a V6 model for about 5 years and as far as I'm concerned it doesn't bear comparison to the E or 5. Awful, rattly, wallowy load of junk.
As a matter of fact I know somebody who runs an Omega Elite and it has done close to 300k on the clock and still goes fine and looks in great nick. Of course, he takes care of the car and doesn't wait till problems aggravate to address them.
If one is the type who likes to just put petro in the tank and drive, he is better off with a Toyota because a BMW or Mercedes won't do either. Unless of course it's a W126, W123, W124 etc. Then he has a chance.
And I must say if you indeed have no vested interest in either marque, you sure did a very bad job showing that because you post looked biased and horribly skewed towards BMW and still does actually.
OverSteery said:
Indeed Audi, Mercedes, Volvo were too dull to even consider. 5 series was the obvious, and so I tried it (540 then M5). I had 4 BMws over quite a few years, and I guess I kept coming back, because wanting manual, RWD, they aren't many other options.
Holden/HSV was less obvious choice and much more fun. 2 so far and Love them
What you are describing is basically the "curse" of pretty much every German car. If you want real thrills, as in riding a wild horse, a German car is not going to give you that. Especially a mass produced one such as BMW, Mercedes, VW, Audi etc.Holden/HSV was less obvious choice and much more fun. 2 so far and Love them
Because German philosophy is perfection and perfection kills character. They never achieve perfection in the full package as their design will never match the Italians. But mechanically they come pretty close to perfection and this makes their cars boring.
If you truly want thrills with a German car you have to try to buy a tuner car like a Brabus or something. Then maybe, depending on your demands. AMG today is not enough. Their cars are not as wild as when they were independent and made the bonkers AMG Hammer for example. BMW M is still boring and German. I mean, when even a 911 is boring compared to others of the same class you know the "problem" is a general one.
Driving a 911 compared to a Lotus, Corvette or Alfa Romeo is boring. Same with a R8. Some people like well behaved cars and then German cars are for them. If you say you like Holden better it tells me you like wild cars. German cars are not it.;)
Shifter1 said:
If you say you like Holden better it tells me you like wild cars. German cars are not it.;)
Maybe not, but this thread is about basically the opposite of wild cars, isn't it? You're hunting for a 2-3k Euro family saloon, and the front/only runner is also, ironically, German. Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff