Would you still buy a Volkswagen?...
Discussion
...or an Audi, Seat or Skoda for that matter?
It has been nearly 18 months now since the VW emissions scandal, many law suits are still pending and in other world markets such as North America, sales are on their arse, as VW/Audi are forbidden to sell new diesel cars (their USP in the market) and are sitting on thousands of unsold new cars.
However, here in Europe, it appears to be business as usual and in the UK, Golf, Polo and A3 still seem to be selling really well (I honestly don't know what the proportion of petrol to diesel sales currently is).
So, should we just forgive and forget like we did 70 years ago and continue to buy VAG products on their merits as vehicles i.e. they generally look quite smart, drive well and give the impression of being fuel-efficient and well-built or is it morally wrong to buy a car from a company who deliberately broke the law and put profits before people's health and well-being and may have contributed to thousands of premature deaths worldwide, all whilst peddling us a lie about being an environmentally sensitive company?
I struggle with this a little, as I have been a fan of VWs in the past and although they don't necessarily make exciting cars, for ordinary stuff I have seen them as a benchmark i.e. they look smart but not too flash, you get a solid drive, a well-finished interior, good fuel economy and all the controls for me fall naturally to hand.
I'm not sure that I would buy a diesel but I have long been an admirer of the Golf GTI since the mk5 and as a smart, quick enough all-rounder that wouldn't look out of place in any setting and not look too tragic for a man pushing 40 to drive, it's still a tough act to beat!
Likewise, I have been considering a dual cab pickup recently and visually the Amarok appeals to me most, especially with the powerful V6 TDI engine that they are planning to put in. Damn you Volkswagen!
Are Audi also guilty by association? TT RS, RS6 and R8 are all stunning cars that I would love to own.
Not so bothered about Skodas and Seats to be honest. Decent enough cars I suppose and it would be a shame for the Czech and Spanish workforces to suffer if VW had to axe either brand in order to survive post emissions-scandal.
This whole affair is a shame because I thought in the past that the Germans had shown some integrity in addressing safety issues with the original Audi TT and Mercedes A-Class (unfortunately too late for some people on the TT).
In contrast, the big three American firms have a long history of negligence and contempt for their customers and covering up major safety issues with no reprimand from the American government. Ford Pinto/Explorer? Chevrolet Corvair? Exploding Jeeps?...oh and how about the 2 star Euro NCAP Mustang? Disgraceful!
So, would you still have a problem with buying a VW group vehicle in light of their morally dubious behavior or would you still be happy to buy one if it ticked all the boxes?
It has been nearly 18 months now since the VW emissions scandal, many law suits are still pending and in other world markets such as North America, sales are on their arse, as VW/Audi are forbidden to sell new diesel cars (their USP in the market) and are sitting on thousands of unsold new cars.
However, here in Europe, it appears to be business as usual and in the UK, Golf, Polo and A3 still seem to be selling really well (I honestly don't know what the proportion of petrol to diesel sales currently is).
So, should we just forgive and forget like we did 70 years ago and continue to buy VAG products on their merits as vehicles i.e. they generally look quite smart, drive well and give the impression of being fuel-efficient and well-built or is it morally wrong to buy a car from a company who deliberately broke the law and put profits before people's health and well-being and may have contributed to thousands of premature deaths worldwide, all whilst peddling us a lie about being an environmentally sensitive company?
I struggle with this a little, as I have been a fan of VWs in the past and although they don't necessarily make exciting cars, for ordinary stuff I have seen them as a benchmark i.e. they look smart but not too flash, you get a solid drive, a well-finished interior, good fuel economy and all the controls for me fall naturally to hand.
I'm not sure that I would buy a diesel but I have long been an admirer of the Golf GTI since the mk5 and as a smart, quick enough all-rounder that wouldn't look out of place in any setting and not look too tragic for a man pushing 40 to drive, it's still a tough act to beat!
Likewise, I have been considering a dual cab pickup recently and visually the Amarok appeals to me most, especially with the powerful V6 TDI engine that they are planning to put in. Damn you Volkswagen!
Are Audi also guilty by association? TT RS, RS6 and R8 are all stunning cars that I would love to own.
Not so bothered about Skodas and Seats to be honest. Decent enough cars I suppose and it would be a shame for the Czech and Spanish workforces to suffer if VW had to axe either brand in order to survive post emissions-scandal.
This whole affair is a shame because I thought in the past that the Germans had shown some integrity in addressing safety issues with the original Audi TT and Mercedes A-Class (unfortunately too late for some people on the TT).
In contrast, the big three American firms have a long history of negligence and contempt for their customers and covering up major safety issues with no reprimand from the American government. Ford Pinto/Explorer? Chevrolet Corvair? Exploding Jeeps?...oh and how about the 2 star Euro NCAP Mustang? Disgraceful!
So, would you still have a problem with buying a VW group vehicle in light of their morally dubious behavior or would you still be happy to buy one if it ticked all the boxes?
Edited by white_goodman on Friday 17th February 14:19
Colonial said:
Plenty of other manufacturers are guilty of similar, it's just less reported.
No that part is factually incorrect. There's investigations ongoing on Fiat and Renault all of which have been reported on through many media but they have to find evidence and find them guilty. Personally if a manufacturer is found to cheat widespread across many models it says something about that corporation doesn't it?
Took delivery of a 2017 Touareg R Line Plus 2 weeks ago, for the wife battle bus cum baby chariot. TBH, whilst it's clearly a naughty engine the lease deal was insane - and VW finance is taking the depreciation risk. Over 3 yrs it was only marginally dearer than a very inferior feeling and down on power X Trail. The cost out weighed all my "think about the children principals", although I do feel somewhat cleansed by the fact I have a petrol BMW.
stongle said:
Took delivery of a 2017 Touareg R Line Plus 2 weeks ago, for the wife battle bus cum baby chariot. TBH, whilst it's clearly a naughty engine the lease deal was insane - and VW finance is taking the depreciation risk. Over 3 yrs it was only marginally dearer than a very inferior feeling and down on power X Trail. The cost out weighed all my "think about the children principals", although I do feel somewhat cleansed by the fact I have a petrol BMW.
May I ask what the deal is?I see just as many new VAG cars on the road as I ever did so either people don't give a damn about emissions or current deals are too good to resist, or both. If there's a sufficiently atttractive diesel scrappage scheme in the near future and we get rid of our Fiesta snotter we'll definitely consider a VAG car to replace it, possibly a hybrid.
Sure, personal was a 9+36 10k p.a. 349 p.m total over 3 yrs was 15k or a few hundred either way (top of head). That's roughly half what they seem to depreciate over the 3years. Allowing for interest I'd guess a 35% discount on new.
I tend to buy our cars, but with VW sheltering the depreciation it seemed a no brainier. I've been spanked on the BMW, so will probably look at end of model life leases again. I do feel a bit bad about the engine (and running a 4x4 in London), but they are bloody handy!
I tend to buy our cars, but with VW sheltering the depreciation it seemed a no brainier. I've been spanked on the BMW, so will probably look at end of model life leases again. I do feel a bit bad about the engine (and running a 4x4 in London), but they are bloody handy!
The tests are not representative of how I drive. Silly shift patterns and unrealistic rates of acceleration.
I would therefore rathet have a car designed for the real world that has a cheat mode to pass the test. Having a car that naturally does well in the test at the expense of real world capability would be a backwards step. You could argue that a car that does well in the test and the real world is better but then you get nothing for free so that would probably cost me more to buy.
I would therefore rathet have a car designed for the real world that has a cheat mode to pass the test. Having a car that naturally does well in the test at the expense of real world capability would be a backwards step. You could argue that a car that does well in the test and the real world is better but then you get nothing for free so that would probably cost me more to buy.
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