Anyone bought a car through Car & Classic Auctions?
Discussion
XR said:
It's obviously not in C&C's interest for the sale of a vehicle to fall through so I can see how it might be weighted towards the seller despite the advertising blurb, unethical springs to mind.
It reminds me of selling cars through Autotrader 30 years ago when lovely old Mavis came round in her A40 at an agreed time and took a black and white photo at the most flattering angle for next weeks publication, Mavis didn't write the description though unlike here.
Its an appealing shop window to browse but I'm reluctant to go in to buy!
It's fine if you view like any advert. My buying experience was painless but the car was local and I viewed and had a test drive and it matched its description. I viewed another and the description had somehow missed that the bottom six inches of the car was filler. If the buyer didn't view they will have been disappointed.It reminds me of selling cars through Autotrader 30 years ago when lovely old Mavis came round in her A40 at an agreed time and took a black and white photo at the most flattering angle for next weeks publication, Mavis didn't write the description though unlike here.
Its an appealing shop window to browse but I'm reluctant to go in to buy!
Automatically I was told condition is subjective in court and usually doesn’t get over turned. This was in the opening sentences of the call with C&C, they immediately made the reference. It seems they lend heavy on this!
I was told they only consider issues in the description if they are factually incorrect. The advert for the car I won stated “no corrosion” yet it’s there in multiple areas so this is factually incorrect. If they hadn’t mentioned corrosion then I can see C&C leaning back to their court references.
Given the tone of the call, I’ll certainly be seeking guidance from Citizens Advice
I was told they only consider issues in the description if they are factually incorrect. The advert for the car I won stated “no corrosion” yet it’s there in multiple areas so this is factually incorrect. If they hadn’t mentioned corrosion then I can see C&C leaning back to their court references.
Given the tone of the call, I’ll certainly be seeking guidance from Citizens Advice
Deeply annoying Sam but they will have everything sewn up in their terms. Auctions are virtually unregulated. You should see some of the tricks BCA and the like get up to! Car failed to sell? Just load it onto a traders account and force them to buy it! Assured car needs an engine rebuild? Tough boobies!
Seller's perspective - my friend Steve has just purchased a new classic and wanted to move on his *** which was very clean.
C & C came and did the pictures and it was listed - he was looking for £18k. Bidding was slow and no one viewed. C & C were on the phone constantly pressuring a drop in reserve and ultimately it was bid and sold at £16k.
Details of buyer appear but Steve cannot get hold of him for two days and when he does he states he never thought he would win it (despite multiple bids) and does not have the money to pay. C & C, I believe, pre register a card and they took £600 off this guy as a 'deposit' but Steve never saw a penny of that and after discussion they agreed that they would relist it for free including taking no commission.
The relist was bid to £13k and was a no sell after which C & C leaned on him heavily to take a viewing from a buyer who was an underbidder on sale one and they also said the market has collapsed as the the summer has ended and we think that tough times will persist for three years and do you really want to keep it that long.
C & C arranged the viewing and the buyer seeing the predicament negotiated him right down to £10k to which he agreed. C & C then deducted commission on the 10k despite the prior agreement - I imagine he got that back but I have not seen him for a fortnight.
C & C came and did the pictures and it was listed - he was looking for £18k. Bidding was slow and no one viewed. C & C were on the phone constantly pressuring a drop in reserve and ultimately it was bid and sold at £16k.
Details of buyer appear but Steve cannot get hold of him for two days and when he does he states he never thought he would win it (despite multiple bids) and does not have the money to pay. C & C, I believe, pre register a card and they took £600 off this guy as a 'deposit' but Steve never saw a penny of that and after discussion they agreed that they would relist it for free including taking no commission.
The relist was bid to £13k and was a no sell after which C & C leaned on him heavily to take a viewing from a buyer who was an underbidder on sale one and they also said the market has collapsed as the the summer has ended and we think that tough times will persist for three years and do you really want to keep it that long.
C & C arranged the viewing and the buyer seeing the predicament negotiated him right down to £10k to which he agreed. C & C then deducted commission on the 10k despite the prior agreement - I imagine he got that back but I have not seen him for a fortnight.
That blue XJS is a lovely looking car overall. It's not a wildly incorrect price for it.
You can see in the photos it is a 6 or a 7 though. But maybe it takes a good eye to spot that? Perhaps it was 20% over what it could be easily sold for?
It's still worth a fair bit due to spec and the obviously 'reasonable' condition of it.
I can see the tyres look old even if not able to see the date codes specifically. They get that sort of brown colour to them when they're 10-15 years old.
I saw one of my cars which I sold 15 years ago in a recent auction with the same tyres fitted in my ownership. It hadn't done many miles over the period but that's often the case with these classics.
I think the last thing to note is that I've sold cars before where a buyer has found things wrong with a car that I was unaware of because I wasn't hugely familiar with it and genuinely had no idea of. So it's not always dishonesty that causes this sort of thing.
You can see in the photos it is a 6 or a 7 though. But maybe it takes a good eye to spot that? Perhaps it was 20% over what it could be easily sold for?
It's still worth a fair bit due to spec and the obviously 'reasonable' condition of it.
I can see the tyres look old even if not able to see the date codes specifically. They get that sort of brown colour to them when they're 10-15 years old.
I saw one of my cars which I sold 15 years ago in a recent auction with the same tyres fitted in my ownership. It hadn't done many miles over the period but that's often the case with these classics.
I think the last thing to note is that I've sold cars before where a buyer has found things wrong with a car that I was unaware of because I wasn't hugely familiar with it and genuinely had no idea of. So it's not always dishonesty that causes this sort of thing.
Seems to be a lot of recent high scoring reviews: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/carandclassic.com
Draw your own conclusions.
Draw your own conclusions.
paul13 said:
Seems to be a lot of recent high scoring reviews: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/carandclassic.com
Draw your own conclusions.
The negative ones are worth reading! Draw your own conclusions.
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/carandclassic.com...
ingenieur said:
That's what I did.Interesting reading..... I sold and then bought through C&C a couple of months after, about a year ago. My experience..
Sale - Photographer did a thorough job, I left him to it and I don't think he'd have accepted any instruction to not photo iffy sections or dates on tyres. He did include alloy damage and a door ding in the photo set and expressly asked for details of defects. Obv I could have lied if I had chosen to, but I'm a decent bloke. As the auction progressed there was pressure to drop the reserve, which I resisted until near the end, but I need not have bothered as it sold for my original reserve. The subsequent comms and collection all went smoothly with the buyer clicking the "I'm happy link" C&C sent him and I had the cash in my account from MangoPay before he drove off.
Buying - I could not see any way of contacting sellers, so set a reduced maximum. I passed on a number of cars until there was one with a heap of paperwork and I examined the photos very closely. I won with my final limit bid and again comms were good. Deposit is taken immediately and I deposited the balance to MangoPay. Arranged collection and car was as described, and seller had the funds before I left. I did wonder what the process would be if there were problems with the car, as that wasn't obvious.
I did subequently find couple of minor defects, but it's entirely possible the vendor didn't know about them and I'd not have found them had I inspected the car. I also found some minor wheelarch rust that wasn't visible on the photos as C&C don't include photos taken at an angle that woud show it, but the vendor must've known. To be fair, 15 yr old SLs are prone to rear wheelarch rust, which is appalling on what was a £75k car when new, but I feel it should have been mentioned.
Would I use C&C again? To sell, yes. I got a good price with minimal hassle and did not have to deal with time wasters, though it's not cheap. To buy, possibly, but great care is needed. I think C&C should provide a video of the engine doing a cold start and running a minute, and the dash with engine running. That they don't do this says something IMO.
Sale - Photographer did a thorough job, I left him to it and I don't think he'd have accepted any instruction to not photo iffy sections or dates on tyres. He did include alloy damage and a door ding in the photo set and expressly asked for details of defects. Obv I could have lied if I had chosen to, but I'm a decent bloke. As the auction progressed there was pressure to drop the reserve, which I resisted until near the end, but I need not have bothered as it sold for my original reserve. The subsequent comms and collection all went smoothly with the buyer clicking the "I'm happy link" C&C sent him and I had the cash in my account from MangoPay before he drove off.
Buying - I could not see any way of contacting sellers, so set a reduced maximum. I passed on a number of cars until there was one with a heap of paperwork and I examined the photos very closely. I won with my final limit bid and again comms were good. Deposit is taken immediately and I deposited the balance to MangoPay. Arranged collection and car was as described, and seller had the funds before I left. I did wonder what the process would be if there were problems with the car, as that wasn't obvious.
I did subequently find couple of minor defects, but it's entirely possible the vendor didn't know about them and I'd not have found them had I inspected the car. I also found some minor wheelarch rust that wasn't visible on the photos as C&C don't include photos taken at an angle that woud show it, but the vendor must've known. To be fair, 15 yr old SLs are prone to rear wheelarch rust, which is appalling on what was a £75k car when new, but I feel it should have been mentioned.
Would I use C&C again? To sell, yes. I got a good price with minimal hassle and did not have to deal with time wasters, though it's not cheap. To buy, possibly, but great care is needed. I think C&C should provide a video of the engine doing a cold start and running a minute, and the dash with engine running. That they don't do this says something IMO.
paul13 said:
ingenieur said:
That's what I did.paul13 said:
Seems to be a lot of recent high scoring reviews: https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/carandclassic.com
Draw your own conclusions.
Sellers reviews are good, buyers reviews are atrocious. Draw your own conclusions.
I’m thinking about bidding on a car that ends tomorrow and I’m having second thoughts now.
I’ve always been wary of auctions particularly with classic cars as weighing up the seller and finding out about the history / spares and work done are all an integral part of the purchase to me.
GeneralBanter said:
Sellers reviews are good, buyers reviews are atrocious.
I’m thinking about bidding on a car that ends tomorrow and I’m having second thoughts now.
I’ve always been wary of auctions particularly with classic cars as weighing up the seller and finding out about the history / spares and work done are all an integral part of the purchase to me.
Personally I wouldn't unless you have viewed it or it is silly cheap.I’m thinking about bidding on a car that ends tomorrow and I’m having second thoughts now.
I’ve always been wary of auctions particularly with classic cars as weighing up the seller and finding out about the history / spares and work done are all an integral part of the purchase to me.
ingenieur said:
That blue XJS is a lovely looking car overall. It's not a wildly incorrect price for it.
You can see in the photos it is a 6 or a 7 though. But maybe it takes a good eye to spot that? Perhaps it was 20% over what it could be easily sold for?
It's still worth a fair bit due to spec and the obviously 'reasonable' condition of it.
I can see the tyres look old even if not able to see the date codes specifically. They get that sort of brown colour to them when they're 10-15 years old.
I saw one of my cars which I sold 15 years ago in a recent auction with the same tyres fitted in my ownership. It hadn't done many miles over the period but that's often the case with these classics.
I think the last thing to note is that I've sold cars before where a buyer has found things wrong with a car that I was unaware of because I wasn't hugely familiar with it and genuinely had no idea of. So it's not always dishonesty that causes this sort of thing.
I hadn't notice that this thread had woken up again. I don't get thread notification emails from Pistonheads and can't see where to enable them.You can see in the photos it is a 6 or a 7 though. But maybe it takes a good eye to spot that? Perhaps it was 20% over what it could be easily sold for?
It's still worth a fair bit due to spec and the obviously 'reasonable' condition of it.
I can see the tyres look old even if not able to see the date codes specifically. They get that sort of brown colour to them when they're 10-15 years old.
I saw one of my cars which I sold 15 years ago in a recent auction with the same tyres fitted in my ownership. It hadn't done many miles over the period but that's often the case with these classics.
I think the last thing to note is that I've sold cars before where a buyer has found things wrong with a car that I was unaware of because I wasn't hugely familiar with it and genuinely had no idea of. So it's not always dishonesty that causes this sort of thing.
I have a thread on the Jaguar forum regarding the XJS, and the post-purchase work i've done, nearly all to get it back upto the standard that I THOUGHT I was buying. https://www.jaguarforum.com/threads/the-not-a-proj...
If I couldn't weld, this would have cost serious money.
It's structurally fine now, but still has a load of suspension knocks and rattles to sort out, but I don't fancy doing that work outside over winter. There isn't enough room in the garage I store it in to do it.
aland75 said:
ingenieur said:
I don't get notified for everything. Think you can subscribe to individual topics with a button on the thread somewhere?
Glad to hear the Jag has been saved... but not an overall good experience!
Yep, i've done that now, thanks.Glad to hear the Jag has been saved... but not an overall good experience!
Potentially if you're seeing weird fluctuations in the reading on the temp gauge you have a bit of corrosion or frayed wire somewhere between the gauge and the sensor.
ingenieur said:
Not sure if you've solved the temp gauge problem yet but generally speaking the gauge is measuring resistance. Hot = a lot of resistance. Right around the dial off the end means infinite resistance... i.e. wire disconnected.
Potentially if you're seeing weird fluctuations in the reading on the temp gauge you have a bit of corrosion or frayed wire somewhere between the gauge and the sensor.
Although I'm now watching this thread, I'm still not getting emails when someone replies.Potentially if you're seeing weird fluctuations in the reading on the temp gauge you have a bit of corrosion or frayed wire somewhere between the gauge and the sensor.
Anyway, the gauge operates the opposite way around to what you describe. Open circuit (nothing connected) = gauge at zero.
Gauge input shorted to ground = full scale deflection to the hot side.
Therefore it was acting like it was getting shorted to ground, but dropped when the sensor was disconnected.
There is no damage to the wire that I can find.
So far, after replacing the sensor for a second time, it's working OK. Hopefully it remains that way.
aland75 said:
ingenieur said:
Not sure if you've solved the temp gauge problem yet but generally speaking the gauge is measuring resistance. Hot = a lot of resistance. Right around the dial off the end means infinite resistance... i.e. wire disconnected.
Potentially if you're seeing weird fluctuations in the reading on the temp gauge you have a bit of corrosion or frayed wire somewhere between the gauge and the sensor.
Although I'm now watching this thread, I'm still not getting emails when someone replies.Potentially if you're seeing weird fluctuations in the reading on the temp gauge you have a bit of corrosion or frayed wire somewhere between the gauge and the sensor.
Anyway, the gauge operates the opposite way around to what you describe. Open circuit (nothing connected) = gauge at zero.
Gauge input shorted to ground = full scale deflection to the hot side.
Therefore it was acting like it was getting shorted to ground, but dropped when the sensor was disconnected.
There is no damage to the wire that I can find.
So far, after replacing the sensor for a second time, it's working OK. Hopefully it remains that way.
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