Is the Porsche 992 GT3 market going south?

[911hope]

911hope said:

Cheapest one on AT is now £200k and is is Clubsport package plus lots of other options.

And that's price it took to sell.

[shocks]

We will see a seasonal adjustment, it's the end of summer now and GT cars tend to start to soften now until spring.

Market, in 2008/9 the backside dropped out the super/rare car market, seeing opportunities arise to pick up 360 CS for 80k, 430 Stradale's for 110k, rare 911s in various guises for good money

Overall the "overs" market on 992 GT3s will soften a bit against the backdrop of the seasonality and market, .2 will be with us next year, supply still remains constrained with most OPCs still unable to get cars. That IMV will continue to have a bearing if it continues when the current froth in markets passes.

[911hope]

There seem to be about 1 or 2 sales per week now and always below £210K and from a Porsche main dealer.

[911hope]

911hope said:

There seem to be about 1 or 2 sales per week now and always below £210K and from a Porsche main dealer.

Cheapest one is at £200k this week, from a Porsche main dealer.

New price with options is about £160K.

Dealer must have bought it in at a maximum of £180k to give some margin, so it seems like the profit motive for buying these new may be less compelling.

[av185]

Cheapest OPC car is actually £208500. £60k over list price new.

Reason?

Ubiquitous Shark blue and non CS.

A couple of other cars around £210k having high relative miles or comfort spec.

Most proper spec and mileage cars still £235k+ and selling.

[911hope]

av185 said:

Cheapest OPC car is actually £208500. £60k over list price new.

Reason?

Ubiquitous Shark blue and non CS.

A couple of other cars around £210k having high relative miles or comfort spec.

Most proper spec and mileage cars still £235k+ and selling.

Not true....

Have a look at the one in Leeds at £199,990, with CS and anything else you could want. 2022 car.

This one will sell. All the high price cars just sit unsold.
Nothing above £210k has sold for weeks.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210190...

BTW, by ubiquitous, do you mean popular?

Edited by 911hope on Friday 21st October 15:20

Edited by 911hope on Friday 21st October 15:35

[av185]

911hope said:

av185 said:

Cheapest OPC car is actually £208500. £60k over list price new.

Reason?

Ubiquitous Shark blue and non CS.

A couple of other cars around £210k having high relative miles or comfort spec.

Most proper spec and mileage cars still £235k+ and selling.

Not true....

Have a look at the one in Leeds at £199,990, with CS and anything else you could want. 2022 car.

This one will sell. All the high price cars just sit unsold.
Nothing above £210k has sold for weeks.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202210190...

BTW, by ubiquitous, do you mean popular?

Edited by 911hope on Friday 21st October 15:20

Edited by 911hope on Friday 21st October 15:35

High relative mileage. In fact 3000 miles over average. For a 2022 GT3.

And 2 owners.

Not bad value at £200k though.

Ubiquitous is 'common' in the 'everywhere' sense.. Which Shark blue is on a 992 GT3. Check out the number of Shark blue cars in the OPC network.

[911hope]

av185 said:

High relative mileage. In fact 3000 miles over average. For a 2022 GT3.

And 2 owners.

Not bad value at £200k though.

Ubiquitous is 'common' in the 'everywhere' sense.. Which Shark blue is on a 992 GT3. Check out the number of Shark blue cars in the OPC network.

Yes looking at the OPC network, shark blue seems to be quite popular in GT3s. I guess if someone wants a bright one this one of the less shout colours.

Regarding the 200k car ......

So it has a mileage of 4100 miles. Hardly an issue.
This price level is what is necessary to sell at the moment.

The pricing of this model is slowly dropping, the ones at 210k to 215k are not selling, so they will drift down as well.

[av185]

Every 1k miles on a £200k+ GT3 is £2500 off the price shocker.

Twas ever thus.

[ITP]

av185 said:

Every 1k miles on a £200k+ GT3 is £2500 off the price shocker.

Twas ever thus.

Just need someone to do 40k miles in one then and it will be down to 100k !

[911hope]

av185 said:

Every 1k miles on a £200k+ GT3 is £2500 off the price shocker.

Twas ever thus.

200k +10k << £250k, which is what the vvv low mileage cars are at.

Also << £235k in case of doubt.

[nickfrog]

911hope said:

200k +10k << £250k, which is what the vvv low mileage cars are at.

Also << £235k in case of doubt.

Are you in the market for a GT3 now? I thought you had downgraded your aspirations to a 718?

I suspect the end of the track day season (for the very few who use the car as intended) but more importantly the winter effect are the salient factors in this particular market.

What would be relevant is to compare the evolution of the 991 GT3 premiums at the time over the same period.

[911hope]

nickfrog said:

Are you in the market for a GT3 now? I thought you had downgraded your aspirations to a 718?

I suspect the end of the track day season (for the very few who use the car as intended) but more importantly the winter effect are the salient factors in this particular market.

What would be relevant is to compare the evolution of the 991 GT3 premiums at the time over the same period.

No interest in owning one..just interested in the market dynamics of such a car. The original owner's benefit is clear, as he/she can flip it for a big profit after a few months.

The second owner has to pay a huge premium to own one. Their proposition would seem to be a very expensive one, as they will make a loss when they sell probably. As you say, they probably won't go on a track, so a few miles being shaken to bits on UK roads and the pleasure of owning it. Look, polish and show to friends.

Now the market is going down, any second hand buyer must know that the likely loss is higher so the price must be very keen or they will stay away or wait.

Now that prices have slumped, it may become less guaranteed that a new purchase will actually yield a big profit. Most of the cars have about 20k of options on them, so real new price is £160k. A Porsche dealer will need to buy it back for £180k, to sell on at £200k. So only 20k profit for the first owner. If market falls much more it becomes zero profit.

Regarding 991 GT3, you are right it could be instructive to observe that market, along with a few other models. I will have a look at doing that.

Edited by 911hope on Sunday 23 October 14:13

[nickfrog]

911hope said:

Regarding 991 GT3, you are right it could be instructive to observe that market, along with a few other models. I will have a look at doing that.

Probably a bit late now. - and besides, you're busy enough combing through prices as it is.

I meant to say that the only relevance of the current 992 GT3 market would be to compare it to the 991 GT3 market at the time to see if the premium fell at the same rate. That would isolate the current economic situation from the natural premium erosion of those very niche cars and perhaps avoid any hasty extrapolations to the rest of the used car market...

[911hope]

nickfrog said:

911hope said:

Regarding 991 GT3, you are right it could be instructive to observe that market, along with a few other models. I will have a look at doing that.

Probably a bit late now. - and besides, you're busy enough combing through prices as it is.

I meant to say that the only relevance of the current 992 GT3 market would be to compare it to the 991 GT3 market at the time to see if the premium fell at the same rate. That would isolate the current economic situation from the natural premium erosion of those very niche cars and perhaps avoid any hasty extrapolations to the rest of the used car market...

For GT3's of any generation, it's pretty likely that both economic factors and any seasonal factors will apply to both.

Where there would be a difference is recent from-new owners rushing to take their profit can only be a phenomenon for the 992 series.

So the 991 GT3 and used 992 GT3 purchasers must have the same motive of "wanting the car" and being prepared to pay the depreciation etc.

If there is a seasonal variation in pricing, I would be interested to understand the nature, For example is it the case that the cars suffer their depreciation over the winter and remain flat in the summer, or is there some recovery in price in the spring.

If the prices do indeed undulate substantially with the seasons, Then there is a contrarian investment rationale.
Such a judgement would need to overlay any seasonal undulations onto the general price decay, to estimate the profit reselling in the spring.
All car enthusiasm should be excluded from such a judgement.

[nickfrog]

911hope said:

For GT3's of any generation, it's pretty likely that both economic factors and any seasonal factors will apply to both.

Where there would be a difference is recent from-new owners rushing to take their profit can only be a phenomenon for the 992 series.

So the 991 GT3 and used 992 GT3 purchasers must have the same motive of "wanting the car" and being prepared to pay the depreciation etc.

If there is a seasonal variation in pricing, I would be interested to understand the nature, For example is it the case that the cars suffer their depreciation over the winter and remain flat in the summer, or is there some recovery in price in the spring.

If the prices do indeed undulate substantially with the seasons, Then there is a contrarian investment rationale.
Such a judgement would need to overlay any seasonal undulations onto the general price decay, to estimate the profit reselling in the spring.
All car enthusiasm should be excluded from such a judgement.

You really need to get that Porsche thing out of your system ASAP

[911hope]

911hope said:

Cheapest one on AT is now £200k and is is Clubsport package plus lots of other options.

This one seems to have sold, plus one other at about £204K.

Seems to be the price to sell needs to be £1xxK now.

[Mr Moley]

911hope said:

911hope said:

Cheapest one on AT is now £200k and is is Clubsport package plus lots of other options.

This one seems to have sold, plus one other at about £204K.

Seems to be the price to sell needs to be £1xxK now.

The ones starting with a 2 have sold so they need to start with a 1 to sell?

ok...

[911hope]

Another priced at less than £200K.

This dealer obviously wants to make a sale. Someone will make a reasonable offer and it will go.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211101...

Lots of others under £210K now.

Many OPCs seem to have a few GT3s sitting around.

[av185]

911hope said:

Another priced at less than £200K.

This dealer obviously wants to make a sale. Someone will make a reasonable offer and it will go.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202211101...

Lots of others under £210K now.

Many OPCs seem to have a few GT3s sitting around.

Early car and 2 owners with 33% above average miles for a GT3.

Biggest problem though is the comfort spec sofa seats and steel brakes thats broadly why its cheap.

Still £67500 over basic list though.