EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
I've twice now been given the keys to a Taycan from my OPC as a courtesy car. First time for a day and currently sat with a 4S on the driveway since last Thursday. I understand this isn't a typical EV and that primarily they were leased through salary sacrifice or other such schemes (according to the salesman at the OPC). Given my local OPC is now discounting brand new Taycans with delivery miles (15-18%) and up to 40%!! on a low milage example, the residuals are horrendous for a Porsche.
As a first impression of a £100k car, I was / am very impressed with how it drives. Monstrously rapid, comfortable, smooth. Doesn't deserve to ride the way it does for being so heavy. First borrow of the car I didn't need to charge so had no concerns. This time, as I've had it longer I've run the battery down and decided to try out some public chargers nearby.
7kw chargers outside nearby office - 10 minutes for about 2 miles of range. Not really worth the effort. 4 points in a car park of several hundred cars. Tried a 22kw charger nearby at local primary school (this was 5pm after end of day) 3 cars already plugged in charging, couldn't get the other to work. Ventured a bit further off to a local hydrogen refill point which had a 44kw charger, didn't work. Sat at the 22kw charger for 15-20 minutes and got 5-7 miles of range.
Had to go back to the OPC today to stick it on their fast charger while I wait another few days on my car.
Whilst I understand my experience is very limited, the charging network really is a bit of a farce. Why can't I just tap a card to pay like I do with petrol? The charge scotland app is ridiculous, setting up a direct debit?? Why are most of the chargers pointlessly slow? 45-75p per KWh is very expensive compared to say an Octopus overnight rate, or even standard charge. Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.
I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.
As a first impression of a £100k car, I was / am very impressed with how it drives. Monstrously rapid, comfortable, smooth. Doesn't deserve to ride the way it does for being so heavy. First borrow of the car I didn't need to charge so had no concerns. This time, as I've had it longer I've run the battery down and decided to try out some public chargers nearby.
7kw chargers outside nearby office - 10 minutes for about 2 miles of range. Not really worth the effort. 4 points in a car park of several hundred cars. Tried a 22kw charger nearby at local primary school (this was 5pm after end of day) 3 cars already plugged in charging, couldn't get the other to work. Ventured a bit further off to a local hydrogen refill point which had a 44kw charger, didn't work. Sat at the 22kw charger for 15-20 minutes and got 5-7 miles of range.
Had to go back to the OPC today to stick it on their fast charger while I wait another few days on my car.
Whilst I understand my experience is very limited, the charging network really is a bit of a farce. Why can't I just tap a card to pay like I do with petrol? The charge scotland app is ridiculous, setting up a direct debit?? Why are most of the chargers pointlessly slow? 45-75p per KWh is very expensive compared to say an Octopus overnight rate, or even standard charge. Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.
I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.
RichTT said:
I've twice now been given the keys to a Taycan from my OPC as a courtesy car. First time for a day and currently sat with a 4S on the driveway since last Thursday. I understand this isn't a typical EV and that primarily they were leased through salary sacrifice or other such schemes (according to the salesman at the OPC). Given my local OPC is now discounting brand new Taycans with delivery miles (15-18%) and up to 40%!! on a low milage example, the residuals are horrendous for a Porsche.
As a first impression of a £100k car, I was / am very impressed with how it drives. Monstrously rapid, comfortable, smooth. Doesn't deserve to ride the way it does for being so heavy. First borrow of the car I didn't need to charge so had no concerns. This time, as I've had it longer I've run the battery down and decided to try out some public chargers nearby.
7kw chargers outside nearby office - 10 minutes for about 2 miles of range. Not really worth the effort. 4 points in a car park of several hundred cars. Tried a 22kw charger nearby at local primary school (this was 5pm after end of day) 3 cars already plugged in charging, couldn't get the other to work. Ventured a bit further off to a local hydrogen refill point which had a 44kw charger, didn't work. Sat at the 22kw charger for 15-20 minutes and got 5-7 miles of range.
Had to go back to the OPC today to stick it on their fast charger while I wait another few days on my car.
Whilst I understand my experience is very limited, the charging network really is a bit of a farce. Why can't I just tap a card to pay like I do with petrol? The charge scotland app is ridiculous, setting up a direct debit?? Why are most of the chargers pointlessly slow? 45-75p per KWh is very expensive compared to say an Octopus overnight rate, or even standard charge. Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.
I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.
Now you’ve done it, Potato Man is coming for you! Must have Errr “borrowed the wrong car” or made the mistake of venturing more than 5 miles from your house without a full charge. Your experience is “not representative of other, better informed EV humans” or other such drivel. As a first impression of a £100k car, I was / am very impressed with how it drives. Monstrously rapid, comfortable, smooth. Doesn't deserve to ride the way it does for being so heavy. First borrow of the car I didn't need to charge so had no concerns. This time, as I've had it longer I've run the battery down and decided to try out some public chargers nearby.
7kw chargers outside nearby office - 10 minutes for about 2 miles of range. Not really worth the effort. 4 points in a car park of several hundred cars. Tried a 22kw charger nearby at local primary school (this was 5pm after end of day) 3 cars already plugged in charging, couldn't get the other to work. Ventured a bit further off to a local hydrogen refill point which had a 44kw charger, didn't work. Sat at the 22kw charger for 15-20 minutes and got 5-7 miles of range.
Had to go back to the OPC today to stick it on their fast charger while I wait another few days on my car.
Whilst I understand my experience is very limited, the charging network really is a bit of a farce. Why can't I just tap a card to pay like I do with petrol? The charge scotland app is ridiculous, setting up a direct debit?? Why are most of the chargers pointlessly slow? 45-75p per KWh is very expensive compared to say an Octopus overnight rate, or even standard charge. Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.
I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.
RichTT said:
Whilst I understand my experience is very limited, the charging network really is a bit of a farce. Why can't I just tap a card to pay like I do with petrol? The charge scotland app is ridiculous, setting up a direct debit?? Why are most of the chargers pointlessly slow? 45-75p per KWh is very expensive compared to say an Octopus overnight rate, or even standard charge. Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.
I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.
Probably not ideal being given an EV courtesy car for more than a day if you don't have charging facilities and aren't used to an EV and therefore how to find appropriate public chargers! I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.
You absolutely can just tap and pay on most Rapid and Ultra Rapid (which is what you were really after) chargers these days. The car could probably have directed you to appropriate chargers through its satnav. Alternatively, Sainsbury's, Macdonalds etc are a pretty good bet. Popping ' ultra rapid ev chargers' into the search of Google maps on your phone would have worked too.
RichTT said:
7kw chargers outside nearby office - 10 minutes for about 2 miles of range. Not really worth the effort. 4 points in a car park of several hundred cars. Tried a 22kw charger nearby at local primary school (this was 5pm after end of day) 3 cars already plugged in charging, couldn't get the other to work. Ventured a bit further off to a local hydrogen refill point which had a 44kw charger, didn't work. Sat at the 22kw charger for 15-20 minutes and got 5-7 miles of range.
Whilst I understand my experience is very limited, the charging network really is a bit of a farce. Why can't I just tap a card to pay like I do with petrol? The charge scotland app is ridiculous, setting up a direct debit?? Why are most of the chargers pointlessly slow? 45-75p per KWh is very expensive compared to say an Octopus overnight rate, or even standard charge. Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.
I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.
I've found the need to understand the basics of electricity, before trying to charge a car.Whilst I understand my experience is very limited, the charging network really is a bit of a farce. Why can't I just tap a card to pay like I do with petrol? The charge scotland app is ridiculous, setting up a direct debit?? Why are most of the chargers pointlessly slow? 45-75p per KWh is very expensive compared to say an Octopus overnight rate, or even standard charge. Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.
I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.
For a basic EV like a Leaf, it will charge at:-
10 miles per hour on a Granny
30 miles per hour on a 7kw (so that's 2 minutes to add 1 mile)
200 miles per hour on a 50kw rapid.
Now scale that down because a car like yours won't do 4 miles per kWh.
Nothing surprising in your experience at all.
KingGary said:
Now you’ve done it, Potato Man is coming for you! Must have Errr “borrowed the wrong car” or made the mistake of venturing more than 5 miles from your house without a full charge. Your experience is “not representative of other, better informed EV humans” or other such drivel.
Are you ok? RichTT said:
Sat at the 22kw charger for 15-20 minutes and got 5-7 miles of range.
....
Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.
22kW charger for 20 mins would be ~ 22kW/4 = 5kW of charge, assuming 10% losses.....
Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.
A 'normal' EV would do at least 3mi/kWh, so it'd be 15 miles in something regular, so considering an average commute of ~20 miles, and the anachronistic 22kW charger (in modern terms), it's not really that shocking.
All-in-all, the issue is that you're experiencing a completely absurd vehicle that it not at all for the peasants, and using it in a peasant-type scenario*. I would have my strongest doubts that someone without a driveway and charger at home would really be the expected owner profile for a lamborghini-melting EV scraping (by your maths) 1mi/kWh.
Although the arguments for the infrastructure are valid, they aren't really very realistic for the vehicle and owner profile, and once you get a bit more adjusted to ownership (note: I'm a past, not current EV owner), it's quite easy to adapt - e.g. planning your charges around your life/journey, knowing where and when to go etc.
While it's not necessarily as convenient (to many) as driving to a fuel station and filling up, doing just that is also not as convenient or economical as simply plugging it in when you get home and having a decent charge each time you want to leave the house (to some, with driveways etc).
(*I'm a peasant that can't afford a Taycan, even at 40% off)
Edited by cj2013 on Monday 22 April 20:40
braddo said:
JNW1 said:
98elise said:
Do you get the mpg advertised by ICE manufacturers? Evidence on here would say not. I certainly get less on all my ICE cars.
In what sort of usage though? If you're doing lots of short runs and/or driving in towns and cities I can understand what you're saying but if you're doing long motorway runs and not getting the combined figure that surprises me - my experience is petrol cars tend to exceed their claimed figure in that situation.Pre-WLTP would be almost impossible to match given the extremely low acceleration and speeds in the old test.
Obviously mpg in large engined ICE's suffers on short runs or in stop-start city driving and if you do a lot of that sort of work I agree you'll be down on the combined or WLTP figure. However, in my experience that flips the other way on longer runs with the claimed figures more than achievable.
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