EVs... no one wants them!

[plfrench]

tamore said:

georgefreeman918 said:

Vanguard shopping centre near York, has parking for I imagine a few hundred cars. They’ve installed a couple of months ago around 5 ev charging stations, they still have the hazard tape on, stating not in use! I smile every time!

why?

Because he’s pleased to see the infrastructure continuing to be added despite there already being quite a few operational chargers there

[nickfrog]

Mr Clark at it again. I am now convinced he is on PH too. The tone, the language, the persecution complex, the binary thinking, the intellectual dishonesty, the bitterness...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/22/evs-ar...

[RayDonovan]

tamore said:

georgefreeman918 said:

Vanguard shopping centre near York, has parking for I imagine a few hundred cars. They’ve installed a couple of months ago around 5 ev charging stations, they still have the hazard tape on, stating not in use! I smile every time!

why?

York really needs a decent Tesla SC option. We are a real tourist destination and the closest Tesla SC station is Harrogate.

[mikeiow]

plfrench said:

RichTT said:

Whilst I understand my experience is very limited, the charging network really is a bit of a farce. Why can't I just tap a card to pay like I do with petrol? The charge scotland app is ridiculous, setting up a direct debit?? Why are most of the chargers pointlessly slow? 45-75p per KWh is very expensive compared to say an Octopus overnight rate, or even standard charge. Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.

I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.

Probably not ideal being given an EV courtesy car for more than a day if you don't have charging facilities and aren't used to an EV and therefore how to find appropriate public chargers!

You absolutely can just tap and pay on most Rapid and Ultra Rapid (which is what you were really after) chargers these days. The car could probably have directed you to appropriate chargers through its satnav. Alternatively, Sainsbury's, Macdonalds etc are a pretty good bet. Popping ' ultra rapid ev chargers' into the search of Google maps on your phone would have worked too.

Instavolt is my go-to for a solid experience….

[nunpuncher]

cj2013 said:

RichTT said:

Sat at the 22kw charger for 15-20 minutes and got 5-7 miles of range.

....

Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.

22kW charger for 20 mins would be ~ 22kW/4 = 5kW of charge, assuming 10% losses.

A 'normal' EV would do at least 3mi/kWh, so it'd be 15 miles in something regular, so considering an average commute of ~20 miles, and the anachronistic 22kW charger (in modern terms), it's not really that shocking.

All-in-all, the issue is that you're experiencing a completely absurd vehicle that it not at all for the peasants, and using it in a peasant-type scenario*. I would have my strongest doubts that someone without a driveway and charger at home would really be the expected owner profile for a lamborghini-melting EV scraping (by your maths) 1mi/kWh.


Although the arguments for the infrastructure are valid, they aren't really very realistic for the vehicle and owner profile, and once you get a bit more adjusted to ownership (note: I'm a past, not current EV owner), it's quite easy to adapt - e.g. planning your charges around your life/journey, knowing where and when to go etc.

While it's not necessarily as convenient (to many) as driving to a fuel station and filling up, doing just that is also not as convenient or economical as simply plugging it in when you get home and having a decent charge each time you want to leave the house (to some, with driveways etc).



(*I'm a peasant that can't afford a Taycan, even at 40% off)

Edited by cj2013 on Monday 22 April 20:40

I don't think owning a Lamborghini melting EV and having to charge like a "peasant" is as uncommon as you think. 2 of my friends have owned Taycans (1 has had 2 of them now). Both were city dwellers who lived in expensive Victorian apartments with no off street parking.

1 had the convenience of a charger at work. The other used to sit in the cafe at his local Sainsbury's while it charged.

Neither owns an EV now but that has more to do with the issues they experienced with taycans rather than EVs.

[cj2013]

nunpuncher said:

I don't think owning a Lamborghini melting EV and having to charge like a "peasant" is as uncommon as you think. 2 of my friends have owned Taycans (1 has had 2 of them now). Both were city dwellers who lived in expensive Victorian apartments with no off street parking.

1 had the convenience of a charger at work. The other used to sit in the cafe at his local Sainsbury's while it charged.

Neither owns an EV now but that has more to do with the issues they experienced with taycans rather than EVs.

The point is that it's a stupid idea to buy a vehicle like that in a City with no off-street parking as if it's a sensible use-case. It's not a vehicle that is really suitable for City-living, nor parking on the street.


My point was around the 'expected owner profile', not whether something is common or not - as it's regularly demonstrated that people make daft decisions on a regular basis.

[CivicDuties]

RichTT said:

I've twice now been given the keys to a Taycan from my OPC as a courtesy car. First time for a day and currently sat with a 4S on the driveway since last Thursday. I understand this isn't a typical EV and that primarily they were leased through salary sacrifice or other such schemes (according to the salesman at the OPC). Given my local OPC is now discounting brand new Taycans with delivery miles (15-18%) and up to 40%!! on a low milage example, the residuals are horrendous for a Porsche.

As a first impression of a £100k car, I was / am very impressed with how it drives. Monstrously rapid, comfortable, smooth. Doesn't deserve to ride the way it does for being so heavy. First borrow of the car I didn't need to charge so had no concerns. This time, as I've had it longer I've run the battery down and decided to try out some public chargers nearby.

7kw chargers outside nearby office - 10 minutes for about 2 miles of range. Not really worth the effort. 4 points in a car park of several hundred cars. Tried a 22kw charger nearby at local primary school (this was 5pm after end of day) 3 cars already plugged in charging, couldn't get the other to work. Ventured a bit further off to a local hydrogen refill point which had a 44kw charger, didn't work. Sat at the 22kw charger for 15-20 minutes and got 5-7 miles of range.

Had to go back to the OPC today to stick it on their fast charger while I wait another few days on my car.

Whilst I understand my experience is very limited, the charging network really is a bit of a farce. Why can't I just tap a card to pay like I do with petrol? The charge scotland app is ridiculous, setting up a direct debit?? Why are most of the chargers pointlessly slow? 45-75p per KWh is very expensive compared to say an Octopus overnight rate, or even standard charge. Without a driveway and an installed charger you really are heavily penalised and put out.

I understand I'm not saying anything new, but just sharing my experience.

Fair enough. But it is a bit different owning an EV to borrowing one unexpectedly. When you own one, you get yourself sorted and prepped about public charging.

With a little knowledge and experience, you know which ones to use and which ones to avoid, and sort out potential payment issues up front. For example I'm with Octopus for my home energy, and have an RFID card from them to use at public chargers, which bills the payment to my home energy bill seamlessly. Nothing could be easier.

[nunpuncher]

Probably been discussed here already as there are more than a few Tesla fan boys here. What the hell is going on at that company?

One of my mates got a Job with them in Germany recently. Was half way through selling off his cars and bikes (I bought his enduro bike at a snip so I'm not complaining) to relocate then got told the job no longer existed. I had seen an article saying they were getting rid of 10% of their workforce (c14000 people) following a drop in sales, the share price has dropped significantly but I saw today that they've also reduced prices again in some markets. That seems counter intuitive to increasing your margin by reducing your overheads.

Has demand dropped off? Are the Chinese manufacturers murdering them? Ketamine fuelled madness? Something else going on?

[braddo]

nickfrog said:

Mr Clark at it again. I am now convinced he is on PH too. The tone, the language, the persecution complex, the binary thinking, the intellectual dishonesty, the bitterness...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/22/evs-ar...

It feels like the only reason for the Telegraph's existence is to whip old white men into a miserable frenzy.

[trumpton7291]

braddo said:

nickfrog said:

Mr Clark at it again. I am now convinced he is on PH too. The tone, the language, the persecution complex, the binary thinking, the intellectual dishonesty, the bitterness...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/22/evs-ar...

It feels like the only reason for the Telegraph's existence is to whip old white men into a miserable frenzy.

Only if you are a lefty eco-loon. Probably best to stick to the Guardian for a safe space / echo chamber.

[loudlashadjuster]

nunpuncher said:

Has demand dropped off?

They stopped selling more and more cars per quarter, yes. Whether this is a blip or a sign of a change in direction remains to be seen.

nunpuncher said:

Are the Chinese manufacturers murdering them?

Increasingly.

nunpuncher said:

Ketamine fuelled madness?

Almost inevitably.

nunpuncher said:

Something else going on?

Insane US labour laws, and trying to apply them to places which are not insane.

[kharma45]

braddo said:

It feels like the only reason for the Telegraph's existence is to whip old white men into a miserable frenzy.

Surprised they’ve not worked their usual National Trust bashing into that.

[georgefreeman918]

plfrench said:

tamore said:

georgefreeman918 said:

Vanguard shopping centre near York, has parking for I imagine a few hundred cars. They’ve installed a couple of months ago around 5 ev charging stations, they still have the hazard tape on, stating not in use! I smile every time!

why?

Because he’s pleased to see the infrastructure continuing to be added despite there already being quite a few operational chargers there

I did not realize there we other chargers, but that's quite a walk to shops, which most will probably not want. Ultimately I will be forced down the route of EV at some point (I don't have a driveway so no means of home charging, and my place of work has no EV chargers). I would likely have to 'fill up' every 2 days and although I pass 2 service stations on my way to work, neither of them have EV charging (yet).

[_Hoppers]

georgefreeman918 said:

plfrench said:

tamore said:

georgefreeman918 said:

Vanguard shopping centre near York, has parking for I imagine a few hundred cars. They’ve installed a couple of months ago around 5 ev charging stations, they still have the hazard tape on, stating not in use! I smile every time!

why?

Because he’s pleased to see the infrastructure continuing to be added despite there already being quite a few operational chargers there

but that's quite a walk to shops

Really?.....

[Dave200]

georgefreeman918 said:

plfrench said:

tamore said:

georgefreeman918 said:

Vanguard shopping centre near York, has parking for I imagine a few hundred cars. They’ve installed a couple of months ago around 5 ev charging stations, they still have the hazard tape on, stating not in use! I smile every time!

why?

Because he’s pleased to see the infrastructure continuing to be added despite there already being quite a few operational chargers there

I did not realize there we other chargers, but that's quite a walk to shops, which most will probably not want. Ultimately I will be forced down the route of EV at some point (I don't have a driveway so no means of home charging, and my place of work has no EV chargers). I would likely have to 'fill up' every 2 days and although I pass 2 service stations on my way to work, neither of them have EV charging (yet).

Good news is that there's currently no government plan to force you into an EV, so nothing to worry about there.

[georgefreeman918]

Dave200 said:

georgefreeman918 said:

plfrench said:

tamore said:

georgefreeman918 said:

Vanguard shopping centre near York, has parking for I imagine a few hundred cars. They’ve installed a couple of months ago around 5 ev charging stations, they still have the hazard tape on, stating not in use! I smile every time!

why?

Because he’s pleased to see the infrastructure continuing to be added despite there already being quite a few operational chargers there

I did not realize there we other chargers, but that's quite a walk to shops, which most will probably not want. Ultimately I will be forced down the route of EV at some point (I don't have a driveway so no means of home charging, and my place of work has no EV chargers). I would likely have to 'fill up' every 2 days and although I pass 2 service stations on my way to work, neither of them have EV charging (yet).

Good news is that there's currently no government plan to force you into an EV, so nothing to worry about there.

(Yet...Covid vaccines, cigarettes etc)

[georgefreeman918]

_Hoppers said:

georgefreeman918 said:

plfrench said:

tamore said:

georgefreeman918 said:

Vanguard shopping centre near York, has parking for I imagine a few hundred cars. They’ve installed a couple of months ago around 5 ev charging stations, they still have the hazard tape on, stating not in use! I smile every time!

why?

Because he’s pleased to see the infrastructure continuing to be added despite there already being quite a few operational chargers there

but that's quite a walk to shops

Really?.....

Have you ever been to a shopping centre and noticed that the car park is full closest to the doors? People are generally inherently lazy and want to be as close as possible to their destination. I agree, 4 mins doesnt seem like a long way, but its a walk through a car park full of spaces they could have parked in to save them valuable seconds

[Dave200]

georgefreeman918 said:

_Hoppers said:

georgefreeman918 said:

plfrench said:

tamore said:

georgefreeman918 said:

Vanguard shopping centre near York, has parking for I imagine a few hundred cars. They’ve installed a couple of months ago around 5 ev charging stations, they still have the hazard tape on, stating not in use! I smile every time!

why?

Because he’s pleased to see the infrastructure continuing to be added despite there already being quite a few operational chargers there

but that's quite a walk to shops

Really?.....

Have you ever been to a shopping centre and noticed that the car park is full closest to the doors? People are generally inherently lazy and want to be as close as possible to their destination. I agree, 4 mins doesnt seem like a long way, but its a walk through a car park full of spaces they could have parked in to save them valuable seconds

Right, but by any able-bodied and sensible definition 4 minutes isn't "quite a walk".

[Dave200]

georgefreeman918 said:

Dave200 said:

georgefreeman918 said:

plfrench said:

tamore said:

georgefreeman918 said:

Vanguard shopping centre near York, has parking for I imagine a few hundred cars. They’ve installed a couple of months ago around 5 ev charging stations, they still have the hazard tape on, stating not in use! I smile every time!

why?

Because he’s pleased to see the infrastructure continuing to be added despite there already being quite a few operational chargers there

I did not realize there we other chargers, but that's quite a walk to shops, which most will probably not want. Ultimately I will be forced down the route of EV at some point (I don't have a driveway so no means of home charging, and my place of work has no EV chargers). I would likely have to 'fill up' every 2 days and although I pass 2 service stations on my way to work, neither of them have EV charging (yet).

Good news is that there's currently no government plan to force you into an EV, so nothing to worry about there.

(Yet...Covid vaccines, cigarettes etc)

If I spent all day creating and worrying about scenarios that haven't yet happened I'd be exhausted.

[plfrench]

georgefreeman918 said:

Have you ever been to a shopping centre and noticed that the car park is full closest to the doors? People are generally inherently lazy and want to be as close as possible to their destination. I agree, 4 mins doesnt seem like a long way, but its a walk through a car park full of spaces they could have parked in to save them valuable seconds

You do get the benefit of nice wide spaces so far less likely to get car park dings too