EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
tamore said:
KingGary said:
loudlashadjuster said:
Yes, yes, but it's basically a zero-cost option on EVs, and therefore far more prevalent, not to mention more efficient, quieter etc.
In that sense, EVs are quite democratising, bringing tech that was basically only on a tiny fraction of (usually) expensive cars to the masses.
It was a Land Rover not a Bentley. Much goal post shifting going on here. The new technology claimed isn’t new at all, it’s been around for years.In that sense, EVs are quite democratising, bringing tech that was basically only on a tiny fraction of (usually) expensive cars to the masses.
of course this tech has been around for a long time. cos of canada, scandinavia, etc.
LowTread said:
KingGary said:
The technology for automatic, unattended heating and cooling has existed since the late 90s. E.g 2005 Land Rover Discovery 3 had timed climate control with an automatic fuel burning heater so you get in the car on a cold morning and it’s already defrosted with a warm engine.
Land Rover have definitely nailed the feature of your car getting nice and toasty while unattended. They just need to work on limiting the temperature, the flames and passing it from vehicle to vehicleKingGary said:
LowTread said:
KingGary said:
The technology for automatic, unattended heating and cooling has existed since the late 90s. E.g 2005 Land Rover Discovery 3 had timed climate control with an automatic fuel burning heater so you get in the car on a cold morning and it’s already defrosted with a warm engine.
Land Rover have definitely nailed the feature of your car getting nice and toasty while unattended. They just need to work on limiting the temperature, the flames and passing it from vehicle to vehicle
superlightr said:
Interesting topic and comments. Especially as I'm picking up a RS6 performance today. Why one of those instead of an EV? come on it's a RS6. !! Why do you think.!
I'll all for EV's, and my Tesla suites my use case perfectly.But, if it was a choice between an RS6, M3, that sort of thing, or an EV, I'd be going ICE as long as I could comfortably afford it.
The Tesla strikes a perfect balance between performance and costs for me at the minute though.
Love the RS6 though.
CheesecakeRunner said:
survivalist said:
Chasing Potatoes said:
Almost certainly the exception and I’d say that an EV isn’t right for someone doing that with any regularity. But most people aren’t.
It’s not about regularity. If you do it twice a year you need a car capable of it. So that rules an EV out immediately. Buying a car for something you do twice a year is stupid. Buy one for the thing you do the other 363 days.
Hiring a car to drive to Cornwall/Scotland/Europe is inconvenient and, if you’re hiring anything decent, likely to be pretty expensive.
survivalist said:
ICE does both just fine, which is why more people aren’t buying EVs.
Hiring a car to drive to Cornwall/Scotland/Europe is inconvenient and, if you’re hiring anything decent, likely to be pretty expensive.
I know we're going round in circles, but those trips can be done in anything. Doesn't have to be ICE.Hiring a car to drive to Cornwall/Scotland/Europe is inconvenient and, if you’re hiring anything decent, likely to be pretty expensive.
I was up in scotland in my Model 3 a few weeks ago and it was fine. 2x 20-30 mins stops on the way up there for a charge and a pee/coffee/lunch.
6.5 hrs of driving with 1 hr spent stopped.
While up there the chargeplace scotland network is pretty good and cheap. Sign up and pay £12 for an RFID card and you're good to go. We stopped at Dunoon for lunch one day and plugged in on a 22kw unit at 27p/kwh. Added 30% (80 miles) for about £5 while we had food.
Had a few chats with people while up there. A guy in a Model 3 had just finished a tour of the islands off the west coast and was full of praise for the charging network.
Alex Z said:
survivalist said:
tamore said:
survivalist said:
Agreed. But in terms of the motorist who is buying an appliance that only gets you back to where we were 5/10 years ago - you can’t sell it as a real benefit in any terms other than cost.
oh i dunno. nice warm car, fully defrosted on a cold morning, nice cool car on a hot day. majority may virtually never have to charge other than home charger. quiet, smooth and generally quicker than like for like ICE. vehicle. and if you are that way of thinking, you're doing something about environmental impact.Don’t get me wrong, great as a second car when you have something else for long trips. But no replacement for a decent range when you want to head off on holiday.
As for the drive, I think this is massively overstated by people who love the EV power delivery. Most people don’t care.
loudlashadjuster said:
superlightr said:
Interesting topic and comments. Especially as I'm picking up a RS6 performance today. Why one of those instead of an EV? come on it's a RS6. !! Why do you think.!
Thanks for your contribution to the thread. Enjoy the car! LowTread said:
survivalist said:
ICE does both just fine, which is why more people aren’t buying EVs.
Hiring a car to drive to Cornwall/Scotland/Europe is inconvenient and, if you’re hiring anything decent, likely to be pretty expensive.
I know we're going round in circles, but those trips can be done in anything. Doesn't have to be ICE.Hiring a car to drive to Cornwall/Scotland/Europe is inconvenient and, if you’re hiring anything decent, likely to be pretty expensive.
I was up in scotland in my Model 3 a few weeks ago and it was fine. 2x 20-30 mins stops on the way up there for a charge and a pee/coffee/lunch.
6.5 hrs of driving with 1 hr spent stopped.
While up there the chargeplace scotland network is pretty good and cheap. Sign up and pay £12 for an RFID card and you're good to go. We stopped at Dunoon for lunch one day and plugged in on a 22kw unit at 27p/kwh. Added 30% (80 miles) for about £5 while we had food.
Had a few chats with people while up there. A guy in a Model 3 had just finished a tour of the islands off the west coast and was full of praise for the charging network.
TheBinarySheep said:
superlightr said:
Interesting topic and comments. Especially as I'm picking up a RS6 performance today. Why one of those instead of an EV? come on it's a RS6. !! Why do you think.!
I'll all for EV's, and my Tesla suites my use case perfectly.But, if it was a choice between an RS6, M3, that sort of thing, or an EV, I'd be going ICE as long as I could comfortably afford it.
The Tesla strikes a perfect balance between performance and costs for me at the minute though.
Love the RS6 though.
I agree with the sentiment about Tesla running costs vs performance.
Not sure i'd fancy another EV TBH. I tried a few before going for the Model 3 LR. They all left me a bit cold, but the massive power of the Tesla was too much to resist.
And it's 10% of the running costs of my M2, plus has 4 yrs and 60k miles of drivetrain warranty left, which was £1k minimum per year on the M2.
M2 was awesome, but not 10x as awesome.
Charging at home is about 300mpg equivalent, for a car doing 0-60 in 4 secs. It's kind of hard to beat. Only the worst case scenario of 80p/kwh on a public charger (not had to use one at that price yet) would bring it down to the same pence/mile as the M2.
Late last week my mums car (2019 BMW X2) decided to come to a grumbling stop with a big warning on the dash and no drive. Recovered to BMW and it looks like it needs a new/refurbished gearbox (8 speed Auto - cars done 26k miles). In fitting with this thread, that's a 5 year old car with 26k miles needing many thousands spent on it outside of its manufacturer warranty. Fortunately she has a third-party warranty which SHOULD cover it.
She's been given a new iX1 EV as a courtesy car, first EV she's ever used or been in. Charged it up after picking it up at a public charger with no issues at all. She's now looking for a second hand EV to swap the X2 with once it's fixed. She thinks the iX1 is brilliant.
She's been given a new iX1 EV as a courtesy car, first EV she's ever used or been in. Charged it up after picking it up at a public charger with no issues at all. She's now looking for a second hand EV to swap the X2 with once it's fixed. She thinks the iX1 is brilliant.
LowTread said:
RS6 does sound mega. Would be an awesome car that. Running costs would put me off any Audi RS model given the experiences of a mate with an RS4 that regularly emptied his wallet, and my boss who ran an RS6 for ages and had a similar wallet emptying experience.
I agree with the sentiment about Tesla running costs vs performance.
Not sure i'd fancy another EV TBH. I tried a few before going for the Model 3 LR. They all left me a bit cold, but the massive power of the Tesla was too much to resist.
And it's 10% of the running costs of my M2, plus has 4 yrs and 60k miles of drivetrain warranty left, which was £1k minimum per year on the M2.
M2 was awesome, but not 10x as awesome.
Charging at home is about 300mpg equivalent, for a car doing 0-60 in 4 secs. It's kind of hard to beat. Only the worst case scenario of 80p/kwh on a public charger (not had to use one at that price yet) would bring it down to the same pence/mile as the M2.
The Model 3 Performance that I've got is a great car, it strikes a fantastic balance between good a family car, quick, cheap to run, looks decent depending on which angle you're viewing it from and it's decent drive (on par with a 3 series for me). I agree with the sentiment about Tesla running costs vs performance.
Not sure i'd fancy another EV TBH. I tried a few before going for the Model 3 LR. They all left me a bit cold, but the massive power of the Tesla was too much to resist.
And it's 10% of the running costs of my M2, plus has 4 yrs and 60k miles of drivetrain warranty left, which was £1k minimum per year on the M2.
M2 was awesome, but not 10x as awesome.
Charging at home is about 300mpg equivalent, for a car doing 0-60 in 4 secs. It's kind of hard to beat. Only the worst case scenario of 80p/kwh on a public charger (not had to use one at that price yet) would bring it down to the same pence/mile as the M2.
The one thing it doesn't do is get under your skin like an M3, M2, RS6 etc would. I've never owned those cars, but I've had simple things like an Abarth 500 (remapped to 175hp) and an MG TF, that whilst not quick, just had that something that made you want to go out for a drive, and I'd imagine something like an M2 would give you that same feeling. Sadly, you're getting that itch, but giving up efficiency and running costs, but for some, scratching that itch, that feeling, is simply higher up on their list of priorities, and you know what, that's absolutely fine. I get it, respect their decision, and why not.
I'll never argue with someone that appreciates the merits of both paths.
If I could have a M2 and keep my Tesla, I've get one in a heartbeat.
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Monday 15th April 10:08
TheBinarySheep said:
The Model 3 Performance that I've got is a great car, it strikes a fantastic balance between good a family car, quick, cheap to run, looks decent depending on which angle you're viewing it from and it's decent drive (on par with a 3 series for me).
The one thing it doesn't do is get under your skin like an M3, M2, RS6 etc would. I've never owned those cars, but I've had simple things like an Abarth 500 (remapped to 175hp) and an MG TF, that whilst not quick, just had that something that made you want to go out for a drive, and I'd imagine something like an M2 would give you that same feeling. Sadly, you're getting that itch, but giving up efficiency and running costs, but for some, scratching that itch, that feeling, is simply higher up on their list of priorities, and you know what, that's absolutely fine. I get it, respect their decision, and why not.
I'll never argue with someone that appreciates the merits of both paths.
If I could have a M2 and keep my Tesla, I've get one in a heartbeat.
100% agree. I really miss my M2, but i can't justify two cars of that value that overlap so much.The one thing it doesn't do is get under your skin like an M3, M2, RS6 etc would. I've never owned those cars, but I've had simple things like an Abarth 500 (remapped to 175hp) and an MG TF, that whilst not quick, just had that something that made you want to go out for a drive, and I'd imagine something like an M2 would give you that same feeling. Sadly, you're getting that itch, but giving up efficiency and running costs, but for some, scratching that itch, that feeling, is simply higher up on their list of priorities, and you know what, that's absolutely fine. I get it, respect their decision, and why not.
I'll never argue with someone that appreciates the merits of both paths.
If I could have a M2 and keep my Tesla, I've get one in a heartbeat.
Edited by TheBinarySheep on Monday 15th April 10:08
I've compromised and gone for a Tesla with an Elise alongside because the overlap between the two is tiny/nonexistent (they both have 4 wheels and a steering wheel??!)
LowTread said:
100% agree. I really miss my M2, but i can't justify two cars of that value that overlap so much.
I've compromised and gone for a Tesla with an Elise alongside because the overlap between the two is tiny/nonexistent (they both have 4 wheels and a steering wheel??!)
Would love an Elise. I've compromised and gone for a Tesla with an Elise alongside because the overlap between the two is tiny/nonexistent (they both have 4 wheels and a steering wheel??!)
When I had my MG TF I used to tell everyone it was a poor mans Elise.
I did look at buying one few years back, I think the 2nd generation, but prices went nuts.
You've got a good balance there though, a Tesla and an Elise, both ends of the spectrum.
Dave200 said:
Alex Z said:
survivalist said:
tamore said:
survivalist said:
Agreed. But in terms of the motorist who is buying an appliance that only gets you back to where we were 5/10 years ago - you can’t sell it as a real benefit in any terms other than cost.
oh i dunno. nice warm car, fully defrosted on a cold morning, nice cool car on a hot day. majority may virtually never have to charge other than home charger. quiet, smooth and generally quicker than like for like ICE. vehicle. and if you are that way of thinking, you're doing something about environmental impact.Don’t get me wrong, great as a second car when you have something else for long trips. But no replacement for a decent range when you want to head off on holiday.
As for the drive, I think this is massively overstated by people who love the EV power delivery. Most people don’t care.
I have two cars; one does 80% of its mileage on long trips (E Class) and the other one (Fiat 500) does all of its mileage as short trips.
In the last 12 months the E Class has done 5 return trips from London to Leeds two to the Malverns and one to France. ICE makes sense. Petrol ICE, actually, as it does 20% of its miles on short urban hops. CBA with all that DPF and EGR nonsense you get with diesels.
The Fiat, on the other hand, never goes further that 2 or 3 miles from home and I have a drive. Perfect use case for a small BEV.
AC43 said:
Dave200 said:
Alex Z said:
survivalist said:
tamore said:
survivalist said:
Agreed. But in terms of the motorist who is buying an appliance that only gets you back to where we were 5/10 years ago - you can’t sell it as a real benefit in any terms other than cost.
oh i dunno. nice warm car, fully defrosted on a cold morning, nice cool car on a hot day. majority may virtually never have to charge other than home charger. quiet, smooth and generally quicker than like for like ICE. vehicle. and if you are that way of thinking, you're doing something about environmental impact.Don’t get me wrong, great as a second car when you have something else for long trips. But no replacement for a decent range when you want to head off on holiday.
As for the drive, I think this is massively overstated by people who love the EV power delivery. Most people don’t care.
I have two cars; one does 80% of its mileage on long trips (E Class) and the other one (Fiat 500) does all of its mileage as short trips.
In the last 12 months the E Class has done 5 return trips from London to Leeds two to the Malverns and one to France. ICE makes sense. Petrol ICE, actually, as it does 20% of its miles on short urban hops. CBA with all that DPF and EGR nonsense you get with diesels.
The Fiat, on the other hand, never goes further that 2 or 3 miles from home and I have a drive. Perfect use case for a small BEV.
https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/latest-fleet-news...
AC43 said:
That calculation is too simplistic; it's not the absolute distance covered that's important, it's the distribution of journey types that is is important.
I have two cars; one does 80% of its mileage on long trips (E Class) and the other one (Fiat 500) does all of its mileage as short trips.
In the last 12 months the E Class has done 5 return trips from London to Leeds two to the Malverns and one to France. ICE makes sense. Petrol ICE, actually, as it does 20% of its miles on short urban hops. CBA with all that DPF and EGR nonsense you get with diesels.
The Fiat, on the other hand, never goes further that 2 or 3 miles from home and I have a drive. Perfect use case for a small BEV.
You do realise you get EGR valves on petrol engines too?I have two cars; one does 80% of its mileage on long trips (E Class) and the other one (Fiat 500) does all of its mileage as short trips.
In the last 12 months the E Class has done 5 return trips from London to Leeds two to the Malverns and one to France. ICE makes sense. Petrol ICE, actually, as it does 20% of its miles on short urban hops. CBA with all that DPF and EGR nonsense you get with diesels.
The Fiat, on the other hand, never goes further that 2 or 3 miles from home and I have a drive. Perfect use case for a small BEV.
survivalist said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
survivalist said:
Chasing Potatoes said:
Almost certainly the exception and I’d say that an EV isn’t right for someone doing that with any regularity. But most people aren’t.
It’s not about regularity. If you do it twice a year you need a car capable of it. So that rules an EV out immediately. Buying a car for something you do twice a year is stupid. Buy one for the thing you do the other 363 days.
Hiring a car to drive to Cornwall/Scotland/Europe is inconvenient and, if you’re hiring anything decent, likely to be pretty expensive.
A quick look on Hertz (picked at random) today, and I can hire a full size SUV for 600 quid for a week.
So I can either have an EV for 52 weeks of the year and save £3000. Or I can have an EV for 52 weeks of the year, hire a big SUV for 5 weeks of the year, and spend exactly the same as running my old ICE (which wasn't any bigger inside than my EV).
I'll take the £3000. That's about the same as me getting a 9000 pay rise. And as it is, I actually just drive to Cornwall, Scotland and Europe in my EV. Because it's just fine.
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