EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
GeneralBanter said:
GT9 said:
GeneralBanter said:
GeneralBanter said:
All I can say is I get 600+ miles on a tank, so fill up and know that:
1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
Edited to add.1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
If anyone knows of a 13th add it.
Point 10, low probability, mostly likely will have saved that in fuel by the time it happens, if it happens.
Point 11, hmm, ICEs are not immune to crap residuals, good luck trying the sell a leggy diesel in 5-10 years time.
Point 12, we have been a captive audience to fuel prices for a century, what's going to change? If anything, once renewable electricity becomes the norm, fossil fuels will be taxed punitively. Eventually, running an ICE will become a choice for those who want to pay handsomely for it, e-fuelled or otherwise.
GeneralBanter said:
All I can say is I get 600+ miles on a tank, so fill up and know that:
1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up its straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
Incredible isn't it
One of the main benefits for me in getting back into an EV is the convenience of not having to find and then stop at sodding petrol stations, pumping fuel in the cold and rain and being charged through the nose for the pleasure.1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up its straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
Incredible isn't it
The ease and convenience of just reversing on the drive and spending 20 seconds plugging it in is enormous.
Muzzer79 said:
Boxster5 said:
GeneralBanter said:
GeneralBanter said:
All I can say is I get 600+ miles on a tank, so fill up and know that:
1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
Edited to add.1. For 2-3 weeks I can forget about it
2. There's no range anxiety
3. I don't have to plan trips around charging points
4. I don't have to wait in a queue or hang around mid journey while charging
5. I don't have to remember to charge at home
6. There's no being ripped off for electricity charging
7. I can choose when and where I next fill up, usually leave it to get on reserve.
8. When I do fill up it’s straight to the pump and less than 5 minutes.
9. Good used car market
10. No £5,000-£15,000 bill out of the blue when the battery fails for no reason of use.
11. No crap residual value
12. No sudden shock when electric prices rise to a captive audience
Incredible isn't it
If anyone knows of a 13th add it.
OK we’re nothing like South Africa but we’re not looking great.
Have you been to South Africa?
Load shedding in SA is down to successive governments not investing in infrastructure to keep up with industrial demand after apartheid ended. Like on a massive scale, not investing.
We are nowhere near that here. Absolutely miles away and plenty of industry experts have said that the national grid is well equipped to deal with a ‘migration’ to EVs.
I don’t buy the so called “industry experts” saying we’re well equipped for the migration - there is no long term planning in the UK and we’re effectively sleep walking to disaster. We need investment in nuclear yesterday.
Tony33 said:
ou can lease/PCP cars without salary sacrifice you know. Let the finance company take the hit on depreciation is they get the residuals all wrong. No risk, the monthlies are the same and hand it back at the end of term.
That ship has sailed a long time ago though a bog standard zero option M3 with zero deposit is £636 a month. 23 grand to own over 3 years with nothing to show for it. 
not heard that one before!GeneralBanter said:
You’d better hope the subsidies continue then so you don’t end up with the driving equivalent of a Betamax video player
'Betamax' suggests you think something else will replace EV.Please tell me you think it's hydrogen, that would make my day.
I'm not an EV owner btw.
BricktopST205 said:
Tony33 said:
ou can lease/PCP cars without salary sacrifice you know. Let the finance company take the hit on depreciation is they get the residuals all wrong. No risk, the monthlies are the same and hand it back at the end of term.
That ship has sailed a long time ago though a bog standard zero option M3 with zero deposit is £636 a month. 23 grand to own over 3 years with nothing to show for it. GT9 said:
'Betamax' suggests you think something else will replace EV.
Please tell me you think it's hydrogen, that would make my day.
I'm not an EV owner btw.
I think what he means is that ICE aka VHS will still continue. Please tell me you think it's hydrogen, that would make my day.
I'm not an EV owner btw.
The 2035 date will get pushed back another 5-10 years and so on and so forth. Trucks are decades away from being anything else than Diesel. Then you need the take up on top of that to replace them.
BricktopST205 said:
I think what he means is that ICE aka VHS will still continue.
The 2035 date will get pushed back another 5-10 years and so on and so forth. Trucks are decades away from being anything else than Diesel. Then you need the take up on top of that to replace them.
you do know it's 2024, don't you?The 2035 date will get pushed back another 5-10 years and so on and so forth. Trucks are decades away from being anything else than Diesel. Then you need the take up on top of that to replace them.
trucks aren't decades away, certainly not for the UK. road trains and US cross country will need some serious thinking, but hardly insurmountable.
Muzzer79 said:
One of the main benefits for me in getting back into an EV is the convenience of not having to find and then stop at sodding petrol stations, pumping fuel in the cold and rain and being charged through the nose for the pleasure.
The ease and convenience of just reversing on the drive and spending 20 seconds plugging it in is enormous.
This, the EV in our household is easily the most convenient. I spent 6 hours driving it today, requiring a 10 min top up while I took a piss and grabbed a sandwich. Would have been more hassle filling up our ICE. Cost in the ICE would have been £40 VS £8 (including £5 spent on a public charger). The ease and convenience of just reversing on the drive and spending 20 seconds plugging it in is enormous.
Boxster5 said:
I don’t buy the so called “industry experts” saying we’re well equipped for the migration - there is no long term planning in the UK and we’re effectively sleep walking to disaster. We need investment in nuclear yesterday.
Are you an industry expert in nuclear?Sounds like you know your stuff. Did you vote for Brexit too?
BricktopST205 said:
I think what he means is that ICE aka VHS will still continue.
The 2035 date will get pushed back another 5-10 years and so on and so forth. Trucks are decades away from being anything else than Diesel. Then you need the take up on top of that to replace them.
The betamax thing is such a poor analogy anyway.The 2035 date will get pushed back another 5-10 years and so on and so forth. Trucks are decades away from being anything else than Diesel. Then you need the take up on top of that to replace them.
This is not about two different user interfaces or some minor differences in storage media, its about a wholesale shift from burning fossil fuel to not burning it.
There is an absolute inevitability that EVs will eventually become the norm, the maths and science are so far in their favour that no amount of feet dragging, or faux outrage about lithium mines will change the outcome.
If the 2035 date is going to be pushed back it needs to happen sooner rather than later, otherwise there won't be any ICE cars being manufactured to keep buying.
Using the 2030 thing as an example of shifting dates doesn't hold much water either.
It was always 2035, as per EU, 2030 was just another Boris clown show the got unclowned by the subsequent administration.
The progress towards closure of ICE specific production lines is already very advanced, particularly in Europe, somebody needs to tell the EU car manufacturers pretty sharpish that we are having second thoughts.
Either that or we will fall into line with everyone else come 2035, I know where I'm putting my money.
BricktopST205 said:
That ship has sailed a long time ago though a bog standard zero option M3 with zero deposit is £636 a month. 23 grand to own over 3 years with nothing to show for it.
Several PHers got the Honda EV lease deal last month £200 / month, that's the amortised cost btw. They probably save more than £50 in fuel/month compared to ICE.
They could have bought it for around £30k instead though. That probably would have cost them £10k over 3 years.
Instead of £7,200.
There is probably a £100/month opportunity cost at 4% for paying cash.
So you're looking at £10k cost cash or £3,600 leased including the opp cost.
Not convinced that particular ship has sailed quite yet.
otolith said:
Longest journey I used to make on a regular basis was Swindon to Edinburgh. 370 miles. I don’t remember owning a car that could do that on one tank (I have had since) and we would stop, get a bite to eat and a coffee and refuel. Don’t remember it being any great hardship.
I did Southampton to Edinburgh several times.Mondeo 2 litre Ghia, petrol, S prefix, did it without refueling. Stopped for a leak at services in the Lakes.
Audi A6 diesel, drove up on the Sunday, drove around every day, filled up 10 days later to drive home.
Peugeot 406 diesel would nearly make it there and back on a tank. Not quick TBH!
In those days, I'd run out of CDs long before I thought about running out of diesel.
Couple of months ago, drove down in a smaller petrol car, stopped for the loos and a driver change in some smaller services near Brum, petrol was similar price to Devon so we filled up.
nickfrog said:
Several PHers got the Honda EV lease deal last month £200 / month, that's the amortised cost btw.
They probably save more than £50 in fuel/month compared to ICE.
They could have bought it for around £30k instead though. That probably would have cost them £10k over 3 years.
Instead of £7,200.
There is probably a £100/month opportunity cost at 4% for paying cash.
So you're looking at £10k cost cash or £3,600 leased including the opp cost.
Not convinced that particular ship has sailed quite yet.
Hmm. Personally I think a 3 year old Honda EV at 20k or so being worth £20k disposal price has about the same chance of me winning Wimbledon this year.They probably save more than £50 in fuel/month compared to ICE.
They could have bought it for around £30k instead though. That probably would have cost them £10k over 3 years.
Instead of £7,200.
There is probably a £100/month opportunity cost at 4% for paying cash.
So you're looking at £10k cost cash or £3,600 leased including the opp cost.
Not convinced that particular ship has sailed quite yet.
Most EVs are losing 50% in the first 18 months at the moment. I am not saying this to knock EVs, it is just how it is.
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