EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
GeneralBanter said:
Yes. And the purchase price is likely higher, resale value WILL be zilch as it will be old tech in 3 years.
What is it is about EVs you don't like?And more pertinent, what's your alternative grand plan to address concerns about climate change?
If it's 'all b
ks' and 'wasn't me mate' when it comes to that, at least give everyone on this thread a heads up.Having owned my 2021 XC40 T5 plug-in for 6 months, I'm loving how it drives on the battery. So much so, I'd want to go full BEV when the time comes to change.
The numbers don't currently stack up for me though, as I only do around 5k miles a year, and a full tank of petrol lasts me 3 or 4 months.
I'd save about £800 on fuel and road tax (until the rules change), but lose a chunk of that on increased insurance costs.
Depreciation is the "great unknown".
Shame that Volvo have cut right back on plug-ins, and presumably a lot of other manufacturers are/will be doing the same.
The numbers don't currently stack up for me though, as I only do around 5k miles a year, and a full tank of petrol lasts me 3 or 4 months.
I'd save about £800 on fuel and road tax (until the rules change), but lose a chunk of that on increased insurance costs.
Depreciation is the "great unknown".
Shame that Volvo have cut right back on plug-ins, and presumably a lot of other manufacturers are/will be doing the same.
GT9 said:
GeneralBanter said:
Yes. And the purchase price is likely higher, resale value WILL be zilch as it will be old tech in 3 years.
What is it is about EVs you don't like?And more pertinent, what's your alternative grand plan to address concerns about climate change?
If it's 'all b
ks' and 'wasn't me mate' when it comes to that, at least give everyone on this thread a heads up.
Local pollution, I'm right there with you - stopping the planet warming - nope.
GT9 said:
GeneralBanter said:
Yes. And the purchase price is likely higher, resale value WILL be zilch as it will be old tech in 3 years.
What is it is about EVs you don't like?And more pertinent, what's your alternative grand plan to address concerns about climate change?
If it's 'all b
ks' and 'wasn't me mate' when it comes to that, at least give everyone on this thread a heads up.Recycled bog paper does scratch the surface, that's the problem.
As for EVs, the environmental benefits are obvious in absolute terms, even if not in relative terms. Every little helps.
The urban AQ alone are worth it IMO. And noise pollution benefits. Too many farty 4-pots with dodgy zausts, not to mention those horrid diesels.
As for EVs, the environmental benefits are obvious in absolute terms, even if not in relative terms. Every little helps.
The urban AQ alone are worth it IMO. And noise pollution benefits. Too many farty 4-pots with dodgy zausts, not to mention those horrid diesels.
GeneralBanter said:
There are so many answers, but if you think you’re on some sort of virtue crusade to save the planet with your EV and recycling stuff you are in fantasy land. One day in Ukraine costs the planet an absolutely astonishing amount of CO2 because a nutter in Moscow thinks it’s 1917 again, and so does a ship all the way to India with the very scrap you chucked at your local dump all because we've lost the ability recycle ourselves. My point is there are very much bigger climate issues to be addressed than Mr Jones buying an EV and recycled bog paper which quite frankly won’t even scratch the surface.
Not on a crusade, more about making the choice to do something or do nothing.If nothing scratches the surface anywhere do we just do nothing everywhere?
The shipping thing (on a per unit mass basis) is overblown.
If we keep saying 3 or 4 tons of CO2 per car per year isn't worth worrying about, all we do is give everyone else the same excuse to do nothing.
Cars are a low-hanging fruit.
If we can't be arsed with the low hanging stuff then we are truly at the mercy of whatever results from the can kicking.
So that's CO2.
Now, what about air quality, energy security, generally taking steps to reduce individual energy burden on society, reducing our addiction to burning and killing everything we can get hold of.
No, I'm not vegan.
And no, I don't drive an EV, so yes you can call me a hypocrite if you like.
nickfrog said:
Recycled bog paper does scratch the surface, that's the problem.
As for EVs, the environmental benefits are obvious in absolute terms, even if not in relative terms. Every little helps.
The urban AQ alone are worth it IMO. And noise pollution benefits. Too many farty 4-pots with dodgy zausts, not to mention those horrid diesels.
As for EVs, the environmental benefits are obvious in absolute terms, even if not in relative terms. Every little helps.
The urban AQ alone are worth it IMO. And noise pollution benefits. Too many farty 4-pots with dodgy zausts, not to mention those horrid diesels.
Frankly if more EV’s mean fewer Gary’s with their endless pathetic mapped in pops and bangs as they chav their way along then I’m all for them.
GT9 said:
Not on a crusade, more about making the choice to do something or do nothing.
If nothing scratches the surface anywhere do we just do nothing everywhere?
The shipping thing (on a per unit mass basis) is overblown.
If we keep saying 3 or 4 tons of CO2 per car per year isn't worth worrying about, all we do is give everyone else the same excuse to do nothing.
Cars are a low-hanging fruit.
If we can't be arsed with the low hanging stuff then we are truly at the mercy of whatever results from the can kicking.
So that's CO2.
Now, what about air quality, energy security, generally taking steps to reduce individual energy burden on society, reducing our addiction to burning and killing everything we can get hold of.
No, I'm not vegan.
And no, I don't drive an EV, so yes you can call me a hypocrite if you like.
If there were no cars at all tomorrow, would the planet keep warming?If nothing scratches the surface anywhere do we just do nothing everywhere?
The shipping thing (on a per unit mass basis) is overblown.
If we keep saying 3 or 4 tons of CO2 per car per year isn't worth worrying about, all we do is give everyone else the same excuse to do nothing.
Cars are a low-hanging fruit.
If we can't be arsed with the low hanging stuff then we are truly at the mercy of whatever results from the can kicking.
So that's CO2.
Now, what about air quality, energy security, generally taking steps to reduce individual energy burden on society, reducing our addiction to burning and killing everything we can get hold of.
No, I'm not vegan.
And no, I don't drive an EV, so yes you can call me a hypocrite if you like.
LivLL said:
GT9 said:
Not on a crusade, more about making the choice to do something or do nothing.
If nothing scratches the surface anywhere do we just do nothing everywhere?
The shipping thing (on a per unit mass basis) is overblown.
If we keep saying 3 or 4 tons of CO2 per car per year isn't worth worrying about, all we do is give everyone else the same excuse to do nothing.
Cars are a low-hanging fruit.
If we can't be arsed with the low hanging stuff then we are truly at the mercy of whatever results from the can kicking.
So that's CO2.
Now, what about air quality, energy security, generally taking steps to reduce individual energy burden on society, reducing our addiction to burning and killing everything we can get hold of.
No, I'm not vegan.
And no, I don't drive an EV, so yes you can call me a hypocrite if you like.
If there were no cars at all tomorrow, would the planet keep warming?If nothing scratches the surface anywhere do we just do nothing everywhere?
The shipping thing (on a per unit mass basis) is overblown.
If we keep saying 3 or 4 tons of CO2 per car per year isn't worth worrying about, all we do is give everyone else the same excuse to do nothing.
Cars are a low-hanging fruit.
If we can't be arsed with the low hanging stuff then we are truly at the mercy of whatever results from the can kicking.
So that's CO2.
Now, what about air quality, energy security, generally taking steps to reduce individual energy burden on society, reducing our addiction to burning and killing everything we can get hold of.
No, I'm not vegan.
And no, I don't drive an EV, so yes you can call me a hypocrite if you like.
LivLL said:
Anyone who thinks EV's address climate change is clinically insane.
Yeah, sorry about that.Trying to get to the bottom of who the General used to be, knowing that the mention of climate change would prompt a fruity response.
Just seen that he has left his previous username in his profile, so all good, not who I thought it was.
GT9 said:
TheBinarySheep said:
What I have issue with is the dismissive attitude towards EV's as a way to get the average person around.
'I like engines therefore everybody must also have an engine'.This whole thing is about removing the undesirable characteristics (to most people) of owning an engine.
Allowing those who like engines to continuing enjoying them in a low key, low impact manner.
CO2, NOx, CO, vibration, noise, oil consumption, servicing, tens of tons of lifetime fuel, gearboxes, exhausts, fuel pumps.
These things only appeal to a small group of people.
And of course boat-towing hypermilers, let's not forget them.
Most drivers have no idea what happens under the bonnet. They just want to get from A-B. They actually want white goods (look at most ICE cars produced/sold - they are dull as ditchwater). EVs will suit most of them.
Well LPG available across the Dacia range is a good addition and as Dacia sell cars with petrol and LPG, it’s a cheap way of running a car with the main hang up the loss of the spare wheel well for the LPG tank.
I have no issue with electric cars in principle, I much prefer the idea of owning an electric.
But I don’t.
They are too expensive, the range in the type of vehicle I am looking at is dreadful (Berlingo MPV style), the public charging network is still hit and miss.
If they had a range of 500 miles + the same as the petrol or diesel Berlingo, I would buy one today,
But the facts are the real world range is 140 in the summer, 110 in the winter.
They cost over £10k more to buy new with available discounts compared to a petrol or diesel
They cost considerably more to insure
I need to pay out for a home charger, additional distribution board, etc,
I would happily pay for the Infrastructure, suffer the hassle of taking 50 minutes at a services to recharge to 80% instead of 5 mins with a ICE, pay the higher insurance, IF the benefits where equal.
But they are not, they are a compromise, a hassle, expensive, a pain, I don’t need it.
I have no issue with electric cars in principle, I much prefer the idea of owning an electric.
But I don’t.
They are too expensive, the range in the type of vehicle I am looking at is dreadful (Berlingo MPV style), the public charging network is still hit and miss.
If they had a range of 500 miles + the same as the petrol or diesel Berlingo, I would buy one today,
But the facts are the real world range is 140 in the summer, 110 in the winter.
They cost over £10k more to buy new with available discounts compared to a petrol or diesel
They cost considerably more to insure
I need to pay out for a home charger, additional distribution board, etc,
I would happily pay for the Infrastructure, suffer the hassle of taking 50 minutes at a services to recharge to 80% instead of 5 mins with a ICE, pay the higher insurance, IF the benefits where equal.
But they are not, they are a compromise, a hassle, expensive, a pain, I don’t need it.
LivLL said:
GT9 said:
Not on a crusade, more about making the choice to do something or do nothing.
If nothing scratches the surface anywhere do we just do nothing everywhere?
The shipping thing (on a per unit mass basis) is overblown.
If we keep saying 3 or 4 tons of CO2 per car per year isn't worth worrying about, all we do is give everyone else the same excuse to do nothing.
Cars are a low-hanging fruit.
If we can't be arsed with the low hanging stuff then we are truly at the mercy of whatever results from the can kicking.
So that's CO2.
Now, what about air quality, energy security, generally taking steps to reduce individual energy burden on society, reducing our addiction to burning and killing everything we can get hold of.
No, I'm not vegan.
And no, I don't drive an EV, so yes you can call me a hypocrite if you like.
If there were no cars at all tomorrow, would the planet keep warming?If nothing scratches the surface anywhere do we just do nothing everywhere?
The shipping thing (on a per unit mass basis) is overblown.
If we keep saying 3 or 4 tons of CO2 per car per year isn't worth worrying about, all we do is give everyone else the same excuse to do nothing.
Cars are a low-hanging fruit.
If we can't be arsed with the low hanging stuff then we are truly at the mercy of whatever results from the can kicking.
So that's CO2.
Now, what about air quality, energy security, generally taking steps to reduce individual energy burden on society, reducing our addiction to burning and killing everything we can get hold of.
No, I'm not vegan.
And no, I don't drive an EV, so yes you can call me a hypocrite if you like.
LivLL said:
CivicDuties said:
Yes, but more slowly, giving us more time to work out the final answers to stopping it happening.
Am I hearing this right, the planet will still warm but more slowly?Just because we haven't got one single answer to climate change, doesn't mean we shouldn't do the things we can do. It's not that hard a concept.
GT9 said:
LivLL said:
Anyone who thinks EV's address climate change is clinically insane.
Yeah, sorry about that.Trying to get to the bottom of who the General used to be, knowing that the mention of climate change would prompt a fruity response.
Just seen that he has left his previous username in his profile, so all good, not who I thought it was.
Anyway, if you're doing what I think you are it's against forum rules. If not, apologies.
My point is, it's ludicrous to suggest one user switching to driving an EV will have any effect on the planets inexorable progress towards warmer average temperatures.
Just as ludicrous as a combustion driver suggesting that a diesel is a reasonable vehicle to take the kids to school in and leave idling in traffic given the known harm to health local pollution causes.
Using extremes of benefits doesn't help at all when trying to describe the benefits of switching to an EV. Buying a Model 3 Tesla won't stop the planet warming. IMO.
nickfrog said:
Recycled bog paper does scratch the surface, that's the problem.
As for EVs, the environmental benefits are obvious in absolute terms, even if not in relative terms. Every little helps.
The urban AQ alone are worth it IMO. And noise pollution benefits. Too many farty 4-pots with dodgy zausts, not to mention those horrid diesels.
‘Every little helps’ - so the UK squanders massive amounts in subsidies and corporations similarly all to get some kind of even passable product and infrastructure it’s like a ‘neat garden’ contest with our flailing hanging basket next to five acres of burning tyres upwind. There are issues worldwide that aren’t going away on their own and while we piss about worrying wether we’re causing noise pollution from an exhaust (and indeed even what gender we are) there are others wanting to kill us and stamp on our graves. IMO buying an EV on ‘eco’ grounds alone is an utterly fruitless and pointless exercise in stupidity over reality.As for EVs, the environmental benefits are obvious in absolute terms, even if not in relative terms. Every little helps.
The urban AQ alone are worth it IMO. And noise pollution benefits. Too many farty 4-pots with dodgy zausts, not to mention those horrid diesels.
We need manufacturing back, we need to reduce round the world imports of one-use plastic crap and stop imports of food we can grow on our own soil. We need to stop wasted or pointless car and plane journeys and get right back to being able to stand on our own. THEN maybe a proper discussion about the real benefits of EV’s including their life cycle costs and the ethical and emissions aspects of lithium production.
What is being forced on us now is a complete farce aimed primarily at reducing dependance on imported oil. The changes in gas heating are also ludicrous and I’ve yet to meet a plumber who knows how millions upon millions of older homes are ever going to be heated properly by ‘air source heat pumps’ (air con in old terms) with a/c units stuck on their walls.
The point: you might as well be pissing in the Atlantic if you buy an EV on eco grounds.
Why wait?
As I said AQ benefits alone in urban environments are worth it IMO.
It's not a binary choice either. We can do several things at the same time.
It's happening anyway but you don't have to take part so don't worry.
And don't worry about gender either. You can keep yours, no issue at all.
As I said AQ benefits alone in urban environments are worth it IMO.
It's not a binary choice either. We can do several things at the same time.
It's happening anyway but you don't have to take part so don't worry.
And don't worry about gender either. You can keep yours, no issue at all.
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