EVs... no one wants them!

[confused_buyer]

BricktopST205 said:

Yes it is if your life can fit around its short comings.

In which case I agree. However, you'll struggle to get a good one for £1500. £3k is about starting for a decent UK made one post 2013 which was improved.

[Tindersticks]

Muzzer79 said:

What planet are you on where the vast majority of EVs can barely make 100 miles in real world range?

Where are you getting this stuff from??

His head.

[otolith]

BricktopST205 said:

What are they going to do with all that excess fuel that comes from the refining process of crude oil. We going to stop using oil for everything? Fun little fact for you as long as we need oil to make things petrol will be made as a by-product.

Have you looked at the numbers for how small a proportion of crude oil ends up as petroleum feedstock and how much gets burnt for energy? If we stop needing it for energy, we will not continue to drill the same amount to take a single figure percentage for feedstock. We will drill less and crack the fractions we currently burn.

[PSRG]

BricktopST205 said:

SWoll said:

Anyone who can charge at home and doesn't do more than 50-100 miles a day regularly, plus anyone who can't afford to buy a very expensive new car packed with the latest technology?

You've not explained why cars that currently offer 2-300+ miles will be doing 50-100 miles of range in 10 years though, or what these rapid advancements in tech are?

Ten year old Nissan Leafs are £1500 quid bangers now. You are already seeing it. One big bill and it is going to scrap. Battery tech has moved on so much futher in the past ten years and it will continue to do so in the future.

I never said cars which offer 2-300 miles range will be doing 50-100 miles of range in ten years. You made that up in your head. It was more the cars that can barely make 100 miles real world range will be pretty worthless and 1 big bill will send them to scrap. That is the vast majorty of EV's available today.

Though to be fair, a big bill on any £1,500 car, be it an EV, petrol, diesel or hybrid will make it scrap.

[FamousPheasant]

confused_buyer said:

FamousPheasant said:

Good point - just seen that clear out trophy models are available for 26k at the moment - that does seem a good deal. I would presume the folk that bought them last year have perhaps taken more of a bath though - but that is hardly MG specific.

I think an update is incoming shortly. New infotainment system etc.

That makes sense. New models have always been a driver for depreciation, regardless of fuel type. In my mind at least, that's what will help GR86 values in the longer term due to the lack of a direct replacement.

[Maracus]

Muzzer79 said:

BricktopST205 said:

Who will want a car that does 180 miles when cars will do 300-400+ real world miles in the future.

Here's a thought - people who don't do more than 180 miles in a day?

Which is a lot of people.

It's like saying who will want a family car that has 200bhp now when family cars will have 400bhp in the future. For a big chunk of people, that just doesn't matter.

Exactly. We have survived with our 200 Summer miles EV for the past 4 years for trips to Skye, Italy and the French Alps.

Makes next to no difference to us as we always stop between 2 & 2 1/2 hours. But for 99% of the time a range of 150 would be more than enough.

[SWoll]

Muzzer79 said:

BricktopST205 said:

Who will want a car that does 180 miles when cars will do 300-400+ real world miles in the future.

Here's a thought - people who don't do more than 180 miles in a day?

Which is a lot of people.

It's like saying who will want a family car that has 200bhp now when family cars will have 400bhp in the future. For a big chunk of people, that just doesn't matter.

Exactly this. 180 miles of range would personally be enough to handle a week in our use at present, and all but a handful of longer trips per year.

And he's still struggling with the concept that the 180 mile 10 year old car car will be at an entirely different price point to the 3-400 mile new one so will have a completely different demographic of potential buyer.

[BricktopST205]

SWoll said:

Exactly this. 180 miles of range would personally be enough to handle a week in our use at present, and all but a handful of longer trips per year.

And he's still struggling with the concept that the 180 mile 10 year old car car will be at an entirely different price point to the 3-400 mile new one so will have a completely different demographic of potential buyer.

You are struggling with the concept that people want something with a little more range otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not tanking in the used market.

The same with the "I only drive for two hours before I need to stop" who have very little clue how the real world works. It takes 3 hours to get from the midlands to central London for starters and that is our little old country. Places like the US and Europe travel far greater distances without stopping. No I am not saying they do it all the time but on the point they have 1 car that does it all. Not needing two of them.

[BricktopST205]

otolith said:

Have you looked at the numbers for how small a proportion of crude oil ends up as petroleum feedstock and how much gets burnt for energy? If we stop needing it for energy, we will not continue to drill the same amount to take a single figure percentage for feedstock. We will drill less and crack the fractions we currently burn.

The vast amount of money from refining comes from the production of petrol. Get rid of that and watch your plastics and pretty much everything else go up magnitudes in cost!

[Muzzer79]

BricktopST205 said:

SWoll said:

Exactly this. 180 miles of range would personally be enough to handle a week in our use at present, and all but a handful of longer trips per year.

And he's still struggling with the concept that the 180 mile 10 year old car car will be at an entirely different price point to the 3-400 mile new one so will have a completely different demographic of potential buyer.

You are struggling with the concept that people want something with a little more range otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not tanking in the used market.

You're over-simplifying the migration of 100 years of motoring from ICE to a new power source.

It's not all about range.

Range of an EV is just one of many factors that one considers when making the second biggest purchase in their life.

If all EVs had a 500 mile range, it would not revolutionise the car market and have EVs "selling like hot cakes"

[confused_buyer]

BricktopST205 said:

You are struggling with the concept that people want something with a little more range otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not tanking in the used market.

I'm not convinced range is the big issue. I think it is mainly new price, lack of diversity of models (only two or three estates I can think of for example), lack of smaller, cheaper EVs and lack of third party support infrastructure for when they get out of warranty.

As some manufacturers have found out if you hit the sweet spot of price, model and warranty EVs sell and sell well. Charge £45k or a 308 or an Astra however and it doesn't go so well.

[Ankh87]

What people want is an EV that can do exactly what their current ICE can do now.

So that is going long distances without stopping if needed. Towing heavy things. Go from nothing to full in a matter of minutes. Not have to plan every single journey outside of cities just to find a place to refuel/charge. Have more options of cars. Have cheaper EVs than as mentioned a £50k Astra or whatever it is.

End of the day most people buy one car, in some cases a family only has one car and has to do it all. End of the day, a car is the most valuable item that most people buy bar a house/flat. So unless an EV can do what so many ICEs can do, it's going to struggle to replace them.

I'm slowly convincing my partner to get an BEV but what is stopping us at the moment is home charging (would be via 3 pin due to location of driveway) and she's set on a hybrid as the range is there when needed. Otherwise for her use it would be fine but the charging time on 3 pin is just too long for larger batteries.

[raspy]

confused_buyer said:

I'm not convinced range is the big issue. I think it is mainly new price, lack of diversity of models (only two or three estates I can think of for example), lack of smaller, cheaper EVs and lack of third party support infrastructure for when they get out of warranty.

As some manufacturers have found out if you hit the sweet spot of price, model and warranty EVs sell and sell well. Charge £45k or a 308 or an Astra however and it doesn't go so well.

I think lots of people are put off new car models (regardless of fuel type) because they literally can't cope with giant touchscreens, apps etc and can only operate a car that has buttons.

[braddo]

BricktopST205 said:

https://youtu.be/Ur47okU3eUk?si=eL6FGK3x08Uc-4Kb

There isn't any 10 year old diesels with under 100k for sale that are either a) running or b) not cat wright off.

The Leaf has the same scrap value as any other car infact a lot of scrap dealers will not even take them.

The existence of one car doesn't make Leafs worth £1500. And a Leaf's battery has more embedded value in it than the scrap value of an ICE car.

You're just making a fool of yourself.

[confused_buyer]

Ankh87 said:

I'm slowly convincing my partner to get an BEV but what is stopping us at the moment is home charging (would be via 3 pin due to location of driveway) and she's set on a hybrid as the range is there when needed. Otherwise for her use it would be fine but the charging time on 3 pin is just too long for larger batteries.

Adoption by and appeal to the not insignificant number of people who cannot easily arrange their own charging is a huge challenge and one which there is still yet to be a really good answer to.

Quantity and speed of chargers will help but they don't answer the cost issue. Someone with their own charger can probably instantly cut their fuel costs by 75% with an EV and with the right tariffs possibly by 90% or more. If you haven't got your own charger then fuel costs are much the same so unless you are saving a load of BIK then a lot of the financial appeal of an EV goes instantly out of the window.

It's one thing persuading someone to go EV telling them they can cut fuel costs by 90% and they'll have a full "tank" every single morning. Telling them they'll save nothing but have to sit somewhere for 45 minutes charging every couple of days is less compelling.

[Wagonwheel555]

BricktopST205 said:

You are struggling with the concept that people want something with a little more range otherwise EV's would be selling like hot cakes and not tanking in the used market.

The same with the "I only drive for two hours before I need to stop" who have very little clue how the real world works. It takes 3 hours to get from the midlands to central London for starters and that is our little old country. Places like the US and Europe travel far greater distances without stopping. No I am not saying they do it all the time but on the point they have 1 car that does it all. Not needing two of them.

Many people have two cars though, surely the vast majority could easily replace one of them with an EV?

We are about to, we don’t need two ICE cars. We are keeping one ICE for the times we want to do longer journeys, not because an EV can’t do it but because we then have the choice.

EV won’t and can’t work for everyone at the moment, the more limited range and lack of charging being the main reasons why but it can work for many people, even as a replacement for their second car

[740EVTORQUES]

Ankh87 said:

What people want is an EV that can do exactly what their current ICE can do now.

So that is going long distances without stopping if needed. Towing heavy things. Go from nothing to full in a matter of minutes. Not have to plan every single journey outside of cities just to find a place to refuel/charge. Have more options of cars. Have cheaper EVs than as mentioned a £50k Astra or whatever it is.

End of the day most people buy one car, in some cases a family only has one car and has to do it all. End of the day, a car is the most valuable item that most people buy bar a house/flat. So unless an EV can do what so many ICEs can do, it's going to struggle to replace them.

I'm slowly convincing my partner to get an BEV but what is stopping us at the moment is home charging (would be via 3 pin due to location of driveway) and she's set on a hybrid as the range is there when needed. Otherwise for her use it would be fine but the charging time on 3 pin is just too long for larger batteries.

Most people don’t tow

Most people won’t exceed the range of an EV in 95% of their use so the car does go from 0 to full instantly (or at least it seems so as you are sleeping while the magic happens).

A small amount of planning is required the first time you venture much further afield, but even with longer journeys, most people have regular trips (eg to see relatives) and once you have worked out the best charging strategy that work is done. Its only on new long journeys that you might have to do a bit of planning but its no big deal, there are lots of aids to help you.


The big obstacles are cost, and fear of the unknown, fuelled by the sort of ill informed BS you see plenty of in this and other threads let alone in the press.

The cost will come down, if not new, then through the used market.

The BS may not, but then that’s why there is a mandate to nudge people in the right direction.

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Thursday 9th May 17:32

[romft123]

Why oh why is the same thing said over and over again and the "I;m never going to own an EV" blah blah folks trot out the same garbage.

If YOU dont want an EV, dont feckin buy one.

As the previous post on the distance use was posted 2/3 days ago showed, What 1 % ish of journeys are 200 miles plus, the vast vast majority of journies are less than 50 miles. Kerbside parking is just another load of BS. Live in a block of flats, with zero garage etc, then and EV may not be for you!. Live and work and play in a big town with buses and stuff...an EV may not be for you.

Only old people buy an EV.............WTF does that mean.
I saw an EV for sale in a garage opposite an old folks home..........WHAT.

Some posters need therapy.

And NO I still dont own an EV.

[greenarrow]

romft123 said:

Why oh why is the same thing said over and over again and the "I;m never going to own an EV" blah blah folks trot out the same garbage.

If YOU dont want an EV, dont feckin buy one.

As the previous post on the distance use was posted 2/3 days ago showed, What 1 % ish of journeys are 200 miles plus, the vast vast majority of journies are less than 50 miles. Kerbside parking is just another load of BS. Live in a block of flats, with zero garage etc, then and EV may not be for you!. Live and work and play in a big town with buses and stuff...an EV may not be for you.

Only old people buy an EV.............WTF does that mean.
I saw an EV for sale in a garage opposite an old folks home..........WHAT.

Some posters need therapy.

And NO I still dont own an EV.

Irony of your post is that you seem to need therapy yourself of the anger management variety

[greenarrow]

Thinking about this thread and how the arguments ebb and flow with the rage, I just wondered about conducting a straw poll. Those of you who own EVs, were they a company car purchase (employee kind or through your own business) or a private purchase. I suspect the correct title for the thread should actually be "EVs.....private buyers aren't keen on them" rather than the current title, which clearly isn't true if you're a company car purchaser. have to say I only personally know 2 people with an EV and both are paid through their company.