EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
greenarrow said:
romft123 said:
Why oh why is the same thing said over and over again and the "I;m never going to own an EV" blah blah folks trot out the same garbage.
If YOU dont want an EV, dont feckin buy one.
As the previous post on the distance use was posted 2/3 days ago showed, What 1 % ish of journeys are 200 miles plus, the vast vast majority of journies are less than 50 miles. Kerbside parking is just another load of BS. Live in a block of flats, with zero garage etc, then and EV may not be for you!. Live and work and play in a big town with buses and stuff...an EV may not be for you.
Only old people buy an EV.............WTF does that mean.
I saw an EV for sale in a garage opposite an old folks home..........WHAT.
Some posters need therapy.
And NO I still dont own an EV.
Irony of your post is that you seem to need therapy yourself of the anger management varietyIf YOU dont want an EV, dont feckin buy one.
As the previous post on the distance use was posted 2/3 days ago showed, What 1 % ish of journeys are 200 miles plus, the vast vast majority of journies are less than 50 miles. Kerbside parking is just another load of BS. Live in a block of flats, with zero garage etc, then and EV may not be for you!. Live and work and play in a big town with buses and stuff...an EV may not be for you.
Only old people buy an EV.............WTF does that mean.
I saw an EV for sale in a garage opposite an old folks home..........WHAT.
Some posters need therapy.
And NO I still dont own an EV.
romft123 said:
greenarrow said:
romft123 said:
Why oh why is the same thing said over and over again and the "I;m never going to own an EV" blah blah folks trot out the same garbage.
If YOU dont want an EV, dont feckin buy one.
As the previous post on the distance use was posted 2/3 days ago showed, What 1 % ish of journeys are 200 miles plus, the vast vast majority of journies are less than 50 miles. Kerbside parking is just another load of BS. Live in a block of flats, with zero garage etc, then and EV may not be for you!. Live and work and play in a big town with buses and stuff...an EV may not be for you.
Only old people buy an EV.............WTF does that mean.
I saw an EV for sale in a garage opposite an old folks home..........WHAT.
Some posters need therapy.
And NO I still dont own an EV.
Irony of your post is that you seem to need therapy yourself of the anger management varietyIf YOU dont want an EV, dont feckin buy one.
As the previous post on the distance use was posted 2/3 days ago showed, What 1 % ish of journeys are 200 miles plus, the vast vast majority of journies are less than 50 miles. Kerbside parking is just another load of BS. Live in a block of flats, with zero garage etc, then and EV may not be for you!. Live and work and play in a big town with buses and stuff...an EV may not be for you.
Only old people buy an EV.............WTF does that mean.
I saw an EV for sale in a garage opposite an old folks home..........WHAT.
Some posters need therapy.
And NO I still dont own an EV.
On the other hand when someone waltzes in raising a point which has been debunked or explained weeks ago sometimes needs to be re-explained for newcomers to the thread. Such is the state of long running threads. Tough.
romft123 said:
Only old people buy an EV.............WTF does that mean.
I saw an EV for sale in a garage opposite an old folks home..........WHAT.
Some posters need therapy.
That's a weird reaction and taken to negative hyperbole.I saw an EV for sale in a garage opposite an old folks home..........WHAT.
Some posters need therapy.
I said that a really old an basic EV (Citroen C1 electric) that was for sale and had done little-to-no mileage (9,000) was probably something that had been sourced from the residential home, seeing as though it has been off the road for 8 years and did around 1500 miles per year on average.
Not because it's an EV, but because it fits the exact mould for 'old person has bought a little shopping car from new and barely used it', and happens to be for sale across the road from where old people live
greenarrow said:
I suspect the correct title for the thread should actually be "EVs.....private buyers aren't keen on them" rather than the current title, which clearly isn't true if you're a company car purchaser.
That’s a sensible suggestion.But this thread has morphed into an EV-usage-viability discussion and I would argue that if they work for company car users, who by definition (in the most part) need a car to travel for work, then they’ll work for private buyers too.
Cost seems to be the actual main barrier to mass adoption as I see it. If EVs were the same purchase price as ICE, there’d be a lot more on the road. But there’s a lot of economics behind the fact that they’re not.
monkfish1 said:
That last sentance is where the wheels come off your plan.
Ive said this before, but ill do it again. Once EV's reach critical mass, lets say over 50%, which assuming the mandates are met will be in the 10-15 year window from now.
As Evanivitch has already pointed out, petrol stations are in decline already and have been for a long time. What do you think will happen when 50% of their market and hence their revenue stream is gone?
Clue, they will stop selling petrol the second its no longer profitable and use the site for something else. Bearing in mind the fixed overheads are considerable.
Whilst im sure petrol will be available in 20 years, at a price, it wont be freely available whereever and whenever you need it. It will become a mission to plan a journey around the availability of it. As that gets harder, interest in ICE will wane fast, as essentially, they will become useless.
Against that backdrop, i still say investing in your GR86 for the long term is bonkers. In 25 years time, almost no one will be interested.
But your money, so do as you please.
Doesn’t currently look like the mandates will be met though. There’s been little movement in market share in the last 2 years. Ive said this before, but ill do it again. Once EV's reach critical mass, lets say over 50%, which assuming the mandates are met will be in the 10-15 year window from now.
As Evanivitch has already pointed out, petrol stations are in decline already and have been for a long time. What do you think will happen when 50% of their market and hence their revenue stream is gone?
Clue, they will stop selling petrol the second its no longer profitable and use the site for something else. Bearing in mind the fixed overheads are considerable.
Whilst im sure petrol will be available in 20 years, at a price, it wont be freely available whereever and whenever you need it. It will become a mission to plan a journey around the availability of it. As that gets harder, interest in ICE will wane fast, as essentially, they will become useless.
Against that backdrop, i still say investing in your GR86 for the long term is bonkers. In 25 years time, almost no one will be interested.
But your money, so do as you please.
Legacy manufacturers are talking about restricting ICE sales to avoid fines. We also still have big tax breaks for adopting EVs that seem to have reached their limit of influence in terms of said adoption.
Even if ICE sales are artificially restricted, it only helps ‘fix’ the percentage - the UK ‘fleet’ will get replaced at a slower rate, so ICE will cling on longer.
Regardless of the reasons, the demand just isn’t there currently.
740EVTORQUES said:
A more interesting poll might be, what proportion of supercar owners also have an EV?
I suspect the results might raise a few eyebrows.
(Most of my supercars owning buddies have one.)
Not sure that would be particularly useful. Most with the means to acquire a super car will be in a position to take advantage of the tax incentives that make EVs cheap. I suspect the results might raise a few eyebrows.
(Most of my supercars owning buddies have one.)
Adoption in that demographic isn’t an issue. It’s wider adoption that is needed to raise the market share of EVs
Ankh87 said:
I'm slowly convincing my partner to get an BEV but what is stopping us at the moment is home charging (would be via 3 pin due to location of driveway) and she's set on a hybrid as the range is there when needed. Otherwise for her use it would be fine but the charging time on 3 pin is just too long for larger batteries.
There still seems to be a lack of knowledge amongst the general public (not PH members of course).Yes, 3-pin charge times are basically 10mph, so if you have a 400 mile EV then that's 40 hours each night. I'm pretty sure some potential buyers read that part and stop right there, then buy a diesel.
But home charging isn't quick.
7kW (the most you can have at home) is basically 30mph, so your 400 mile EV takes 13 hours each night to charge. Now, we all know it won't, because you're not going to use 400 miles each and every day, so if you do over 300 miles on a particular day then you can play catch-up.
But many people don't think this through.
M4cruiser said:
There still seems to be a lack of knowledge amongst the general public (not PH members of course).
Yes, 3-pin charge times are basically 10mph, so if you have a 400 mile EV then that's 40 hours each night. I'm pretty sure some potential buyers read that part and stop right there, then buy a diesel.
But home charging isn't quick.
7kW (the most you can have at home) is basically 30mph, so your 400 mile EV takes 13 hours each night to charge. Now, we all know it won't, because you're not going to use 400 miles each and every day, so if you do over 300 miles on a particular day then you can play catch-up.
But many people don't think this through.
Just checking, are you saying on a 3 pin lead you can still add 120 miles over night (12 hours)?Yes, 3-pin charge times are basically 10mph, so if you have a 400 mile EV then that's 40 hours each night. I'm pretty sure some potential buyers read that part and stop right there, then buy a diesel.
But home charging isn't quick.
7kW (the most you can have at home) is basically 30mph, so your 400 mile EV takes 13 hours each night to charge. Now, we all know it won't, because you're not going to use 400 miles each and every day, so if you do over 300 miles on a particular day then you can play catch-up.
But many people don't think this through.
If so you're right I hadn't realised that. Can you still get cheaper overnight tariffs without a home charger?
Janluke said:
M4cruiser said:
There still seems to be a lack of knowledge amongst the general public (not PH members of course).
Yes, 3-pin charge times are basically 10mph, so if you have a 400 mile EV then that's 40 hours each night. I'm pretty sure some potential buyers read that part and stop right there, then buy a diesel.
But home charging isn't quick.
7kW (the most you can have at home) is basically 30mph, so your 400 mile EV takes 13 hours each night to charge. Now, we all know it won't, because you're not going to use 400 miles each and every day, so if you do over 300 miles on a particular day then you can play catch-up.
But many people don't think this through.
Just checking, are you saying on a 3 pin lead you can still add 120 miles over night (12 hours)?Yes, 3-pin charge times are basically 10mph, so if you have a 400 mile EV then that's 40 hours each night. I'm pretty sure some potential buyers read that part and stop right there, then buy a diesel.
But home charging isn't quick.
7kW (the most you can have at home) is basically 30mph, so your 400 mile EV takes 13 hours each night to charge. Now, we all know it won't, because you're not going to use 400 miles each and every day, so if you do over 300 miles on a particular day then you can play catch-up.
But many people don't think this through.
If so you're right I hadn't realised that. Can you still get cheaper overnight tariffs without a home charger?
Some cars will ‘talk’ to energy providers and be able to have longer periods of cheap charging.
How many miles you add depends on how efficient your EV is. Miles per kWh range from 2 to 5 (typically) - a bit like mpg it depends on model of car and driving style.
Think we get around 3.5 miles per kWh on average. Charge (on average) about 1.5 times a week on a 3 pin plug. Our car doesn’t talk to the smart energy providers so we are paying 25p per kWh which works out about 10p per mile.
Looked at cheap tariffs but didn’t really make sense for multiple reasons. Our other cars cost about 30p per mile, so still cheap compared to that.
740EVTORQUES said:
Most people don’t tow
Most people won’t exceed the range of an EV in 95% of their use so the car does go from 0 to full instantly (or at least it seems so as you are sleeping while the magic happens).
A small amount of planning is required the first time you venture much further afield, but even with longer journeys, most people have regular trips (eg to see relatives) and once you have worked out the best charging strategy that work is done. Its only on new long journeys that you might have to do a bit of planning but its no big deal, there are lots of aids to help you.
The big obstacles are cost, and fear of the unknown, fuelled by the sort of ill informed BS you see plenty of in this and other threads let alone in the press.
The cost will come down, if not new, then through the used market.
The BS may not, but then that’s why there is a mandate to nudge people in the right direction.
Most people won’t exceed the range of an EV in 95% of their use so the car does go from 0 to full instantly (or at least it seems so as you are sleeping while the magic happens).
A small amount of planning is required the first time you venture much further afield, but even with longer journeys, most people have regular trips (eg to see relatives) and once you have worked out the best charging strategy that work is done. Its only on new long journeys that you might have to do a bit of planning but its no big deal, there are lots of aids to help you.
The big obstacles are cost, and fear of the unknown, fuelled by the sort of ill informed BS you see plenty of in this and other threads let alone in the press.
The cost will come down, if not new, then through the used market.
The BS may not, but then that’s why there is a mandate to nudge people in the right direction.
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Thursday 9th May 17:32
740EVTORQUES said:
A more interesting poll might be, what proportion of supercar owners also have an EV?
I suspect the results might raise a few eyebrows.
(Most of my supercars owning buddies have one.)
Now we are in trouble. I think you’ve just created a paradox. Most EV drivers also own supercars, yet none of them tow or drive to the end of their street. I don’t know what to believe! I suspect the results might raise a few eyebrows.
(Most of my supercars owning buddies have one.)
I think you’re just making s
t up.sturge7878 said:
the only 'interesting' thing about it was the total oversight of how hydrogen needs to be made, the scale of it and cost of infrastructure. especially if steam reformation is discounted as it's really not the way forward… unless you are a gas drilling company 
survivalist said:
Our car doesn’t talk to the smart energy providers so we are paying 25p per kWh which works out about 10p per mile.
Looked at cheap tariffs but didn’t really make sense for multiple reasons.
April was a particularly cheap month and cost us 8.2p per kWh.
And you don’t need anything fancier than a smart meter to sign up.
KingGary said:
Now we are in trouble. I think you’ve just created a paradox. Most EV drivers also own supercars, yet none of them tow or drive to the end of their street. I don’t know what to believe!
I think you’re just making st up.
How did you get from "most of his supercar owning mates have an EV" to "most EV drivers own supercars"? Do you English?I think you’re just making s
t up.sturge7878 said:
You mean this bit?article said:
The project cost has been £11.3 million, with £5.6 million in the form of a Government Alternative Propulsion grant and Toyota supplying parts, staff, premises and time to the value of £4.1 million
survivalist said:
monkfish1 said:
That last sentance is where the wheels come off your plan.
Ive said this before, but ill do it again. Once EV's reach critical mass, lets say over 50%, which assuming the mandates are met will be in the 10-15 year window from now.
As Evanivitch has already pointed out, petrol stations are in decline already and have been for a long time. What do you think will happen when 50% of their market and hence their revenue stream is gone?
Clue, they will stop selling petrol the second its no longer profitable and use the site for something else. Bearing in mind the fixed overheads are considerable.
Whilst im sure petrol will be available in 20 years, at a price, it wont be freely available whereever and whenever you need it. It will become a mission to plan a journey around the availability of it. As that gets harder, interest in ICE will wane fast, as essentially, they will become useless.
Against that backdrop, i still say investing in your GR86 for the long term is bonkers. In 25 years time, almost no one will be interested.
But your money, so do as you please.
Doesn’t currently look like the mandates will be met though. There’s been little movement in market share in the last 2 years. Ive said this before, but ill do it again. Once EV's reach critical mass, lets say over 50%, which assuming the mandates are met will be in the 10-15 year window from now.
As Evanivitch has already pointed out, petrol stations are in decline already and have been for a long time. What do you think will happen when 50% of their market and hence their revenue stream is gone?
Clue, they will stop selling petrol the second its no longer profitable and use the site for something else. Bearing in mind the fixed overheads are considerable.
Whilst im sure petrol will be available in 20 years, at a price, it wont be freely available whereever and whenever you need it. It will become a mission to plan a journey around the availability of it. As that gets harder, interest in ICE will wane fast, as essentially, they will become useless.
Against that backdrop, i still say investing in your GR86 for the long term is bonkers. In 25 years time, almost no one will be interested.
But your money, so do as you please.
Legacy manufacturers are talking about restricting ICE sales to avoid fines. We also still have big tax breaks for adopting EVs that seem to have reached their limit of influence in terms of said adoption.
Even if ICE sales are artificially restricted, it only helps ‘fix’ the percentage - the UK ‘fleet’ will get replaced at a slower rate, so ICE will cling on longer.
Regardless of the reasons, the demand just isn’t there currently.
Though i still think my point stands on petrol, albeit, that it is tied to the progress of EV's.
Dont forget we have a new government inbound who appear to be totally commited. I suspect large quantities of cash will he hosed to incentivise purchases. And its clear it needs to be elsewhere other than fleet and business users.
If you want one, i say sit tight and wait for the free cash.
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