EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
Dave200 said:
Every time mine has been plugged in at home, it's been charged to 100%. I took the view that as it's on finance and we'll be returning it in a couple of years the long term battery health is less important to me than the usable range in the time I own it. I can't say that I've noticed any drop in range over the 15,000 miles I've used it for, taking it up to 25,000 total (bought used). It's entirely possible that this might drop off a cliff later in life, but it certainly hasn't just yet. 340 miles displayed range is entirely possible with careful driving and 300+ is a regular occurrence.
I'm sure someone posted up a graph of self-reported Tesla owners showing battery degradation over time. I seem to remember 7% at 100,000 miles being the figure that stuck in my head. Not the end of the world.
This is it, he didn't really explain when a problem would occur or what what happen by charging it to 100% all the time. Granted for you it's fine but someone buying used and intending to keep it a very long time, it's not great. I'm sure someone posted up a graph of self-reported Tesla owners showing battery degradation over time. I seem to remember 7% at 100,000 miles being the figure that stuck in my head. Not the end of the world.
Understandably it's no different than someone red lining a car every time they drive it and then the next person having no clue. Again it seems that there's no real consistency about true figures as such. 7% at 100k is great but is that people charging up to 100% each time and never letting it go below 20%? Who really knows apart from Tesla. It's obviously selected data which is fair enough. No different than saying our 2009 Kia Picanto has cost us practically nothing but maintenance parts. Others might say otherwise.
I guess there will be a wider range of data available once more and more EVs become attainable for common people.
Ankh87 said:
Dave200 said:
Every time mine has been plugged in at home, it's been charged to 100%. I took the view that as it's on finance and we'll be returning it in a couple of years the long term battery health is less important to me than the usable range in the time I own it. I can't say that I've noticed any drop in range over the 15,000 miles I've used it for, taking it up to 25,000 total (bought used). It's entirely possible that this might drop off a cliff later in life, but it certainly hasn't just yet. 340 miles displayed range is entirely possible with careful driving and 300+ is a regular occurrence.
I'm sure someone posted up a graph of self-reported Tesla owners showing battery degradation over time. I seem to remember 7% at 100,000 miles being the figure that stuck in my head. Not the end of the world.
This is it, he didn't really explain when a problem would occur or what what happen by charging it to 100% all the time. Granted for you it's fine but someone buying used and intending to keep it a very long time, it's not great. I'm sure someone posted up a graph of self-reported Tesla owners showing battery degradation over time. I seem to remember 7% at 100,000 miles being the figure that stuck in my head. Not the end of the world.
Understandably it's no different than someone red lining a car every time they drive it and then the next person having no clue. Again it seems that there's no real consistency about true figures as such. 7% at 100k is great but is that people charging up to 100% each time and never letting it go below 20%? Who really knows apart from Tesla. It's obviously selected data which is fair enough. No different than saying our 2009 Kia Picanto has cost us practically nothing but maintenance parts. Others might say otherwise.
I guess there will be a wider range of data available once more and more EVs become attainable for common people.
Dave200 said:
Ankh87 said:
Dave200 said:
Every time mine has been plugged in at home, it's been charged to 100%. I took the view that as it's on finance and we'll be returning it in a couple of years the long term battery health is less important to me than the usable range in the time I own it. I can't say that I've noticed any drop in range over the 15,000 miles I've used it for, taking it up to 25,000 total (bought used). It's entirely possible that this might drop off a cliff later in life, but it certainly hasn't just yet. 340 miles displayed range is entirely possible with careful driving and 300+ is a regular occurrence.
I'm sure someone posted up a graph of self-reported Tesla owners showing battery degradation over time. I seem to remember 7% at 100,000 miles being the figure that stuck in my head. Not the end of the world.
This is it, he didn't really explain when a problem would occur or what what happen by charging it to 100% all the time. Granted for you it's fine but someone buying used and intending to keep it a very long time, it's not great. I'm sure someone posted up a graph of self-reported Tesla owners showing battery degradation over time. I seem to remember 7% at 100,000 miles being the figure that stuck in my head. Not the end of the world.
Understandably it's no different than someone red lining a car every time they drive it and then the next person having no clue. Again it seems that there's no real consistency about true figures as such. 7% at 100k is great but is that people charging up to 100% each time and never letting it go below 20%? Who really knows apart from Tesla. It's obviously selected data which is fair enough. No different than saying our 2009 Kia Picanto has cost us practically nothing but maintenance parts. Others might say otherwise.
I guess there will be a wider range of data available once more and more EVs become attainable for common people.
And the battery degradation curve isn't linear; it tends to slow down with increasing age/mileage. So the next 100,000 miles will likely result in less capacity being lost.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AbStgJrRic
Dave200 said:
Ankh87 said:
Dave200 said:
Every time mine has been plugged in at home, it's been charged to 100%. I took the view that as it's on finance and we'll be returning it in a couple of years the long term battery health is less important to me than the usable range in the time I own it. I can't say that I've noticed any drop in range over the 15,000 miles I've used it for, taking it up to 25,000 total (bought used). It's entirely possible that this might drop off a cliff later in life, but it certainly hasn't just yet. 340 miles displayed range is entirely possible with careful driving and 300+ is a regular occurrence.
I'm sure someone posted up a graph of self-reported Tesla owners showing battery degradation over time. I seem to remember 7% at 100,000 miles being the figure that stuck in my head. Not the end of the world.
This is it, he didn't really explain when a problem would occur or what what happen by charging it to 100% all the time. Granted for you it's fine but someone buying used and intending to keep it a very long time, it's not great. I'm sure someone posted up a graph of self-reported Tesla owners showing battery degradation over time. I seem to remember 7% at 100,000 miles being the figure that stuck in my head. Not the end of the world.
Understandably it's no different than someone red lining a car every time they drive it and then the next person having no clue. Again it seems that there's no real consistency about true figures as such. 7% at 100k is great but is that people charging up to 100% each time and never letting it go below 20%? Who really knows apart from Tesla. It's obviously selected data which is fair enough. No different than saying our 2009 Kia Picanto has cost us practically nothing but maintenance parts. Others might say otherwise.
I guess there will be a wider range of data available once more and more EVs become attainable for common people.
Whereas there's not much that can be learnt about a used ICE other than service history and apparent condition - if it's been red-lined from cold every morning, for example.
Ankh87 said:
He also stated that manufacturers offer long warranties on EVs because there's less parts to go wrong, which is awesome for us all. My question about that is surely this will change because the manufacturers will want people to buy their new car won't they? Come 2035 if battery deg is minimal and everything is pretty much as reliable as paying taxes, then manufacturers aren't going to want people driving around in the car they bought 5 years ago and still using it 10 years more.
Absolutely this.All new car buyers scrap the car after they finished with it.
Drive it off a cliff even.
The sooner it goes tits up the day after the warranty expires, the better.
There is no such thing as the used car market.
Autotrader is a hoax, created by Russian trollbots to get us to eat more toast.
Or something...
Ankh87 said:
He also stated that manufacturers offer long warranties on EVs because there's less parts to go wrong, which is awesome for us all. My question about that is surely this will change because the manufacturers will want people to buy their new car won't they? Come 2035 if battery deg is minimal and everything is pretty much as reliable as paying taxes, then manufacturers aren't going to want people driving around in the car they bought 5 years ago and still using it 10 years more.
Interestingly, when Tesla was a much more fragile business, there were lots of people trying to short their stock. Musk later admitted there were good reasons to bet against Tesla, and one of those reasons relates to your point/question.In simple terms, if a new car lasts around 15 years, and it comes with a 3 year warranty, then after a couple of decades you have 80% of a manufacturer's fleet being out of warranty cars. All those cars need servicing and spares. So you can sell high-margin OEM parts and servicing to the owners of those cars. Musk was saying legacy car markers could sell their new cars at zero margin, because of the profit they could make from these older cars on the road.
Musk was also saying that is the traditional reason why new entrants to the car business usually go out of business, because they don't have the fleet of older cars which need high-margin replacement parts.
As a personal example, my model 3 is now three years old, and I've spent precisely zero on servicing. All it has needed are new tyres. Nothing goes wrong, no work is needed. It just works.
p1stonhead said:
Look at any number of the thousands of examples recorded online/youtube?….
It’s a meme at this point
It might be a 'meme' but that doesn't make it true. Some of the early Fremont built cars were dodgy with wide panel gaps etc but that is a long time ago now.It’s a meme at this point
Have a look at this video.... Tesla with 450,000 miles and which cost £8,900. The condition about travelling nearly half a million miles is interesting...
https://youtu.be/iRuJJtmN3fc?t=129
We see very few issues with EV's, they usually stand a better chance the someting with an engine in passing. Of the ones that I can rememeber failing, springs and suspension arms, track rod ends are the most common.
Brakes always tend to be in very poor condition, Tesla seem to be the worst but thats most likely down to how they brake.
I do think EV owners don't maintain there cars in the same way as traditional cars, I put this down to the fact there is no oil to change so the owners think they don't need a service.
Brakes always tend to be in very poor condition, Tesla seem to be the worst but thats most likely down to how they brake.
I do think EV owners don't maintain there cars in the same way as traditional cars, I put this down to the fact there is no oil to change so the owners think they don't need a service.
craigjm said:
JLR have just announced another battery recall for the I-Pace this time impacting only on cars built before 2019. There is no fix at present so the advice is to just not charge beyond 75%
I had an i-pace for three years before I got my Tesla. Nice to drive, nice interior, slow infotainment (mine was prior to the refresh), but it was unreliable. Mine developed a battery fault when it was only 18 months old which required the dealer giving me a FF Range Rover for two months as a courtesy car whilst they waited for parts. That is a car I wouldn't buy again, even with a warranty!
Shouting about battery longevity is going to be akin to shouting at clouds.
Early leafs and other cars with poor battery management genuinely suffer and there's certainly some unreliability around, I know ID3's have had atleast one recall regarding batteries.
But on the whole a battery pack is orders of magnitude more reliable than an ICE with essentially infinitely less maintenance costs. Although a motor probably has more maintenance costs than a petrol tank to work the analogy the other way.
I charge mine to 100% guilt free.
Early leafs and other cars with poor battery management genuinely suffer and there's certainly some unreliability around, I know ID3's have had atleast one recall regarding batteries.
But on the whole a battery pack is orders of magnitude more reliable than an ICE with essentially infinitely less maintenance costs. Although a motor probably has more maintenance costs than a petrol tank to work the analogy the other way.
I charge mine to 100% guilt free.
CheesecakeRunner said:
Why do so many electric versions of ICE cars have blanked-off grilles?I appreciate that the grille isn't really needed for cooling, and it probably improves aero by a tiny amount, but it just looks a bit rubbish.
Jk89 said:
nammynake said:
That is simply untrue. What specifically do you mean and what’s your source?
This is the problem with cults.Why can’t anyone be objective anymore?
Tesla build quality is Fisher price compared to European and Japanese cars.
Solid mechanicals as you'd expect but the interior is toss and is wearing poorly
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff