EVs... no one wants them!

[Seasonal Hero]

tupak798 said:

Well I would post Guardian links but they seem to like sweeping any negative EV stories into the ether.

Tell me then - do you actually think that posting that over and over again will achieve anything? Why do you care?

[T_S_M]

tupak798 said:

Not for a lot of people really.

I did consider an EV but the scales are still massively in favour of ICE such that EV only really makes sense at the moment as a 2nd or 3rd car for edge cases.
What I liked about EVs:
Acceleration and speed
Potentially cheaper charging at home (but for how long…?)
What I didn’t:
Range – particularly this time of year, cold conditions, warm conditions

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6345044874112

Charging network, broken chargers, non standardized apps, lack of free chargers,
Charging time much longer than refilling with fuel
Charger queues and congestion, e.g. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11579649/...
Weight and handling
Charging in cold conditions
Charging in warm conditions
Tax: Congestion charge exemption ends next year
VED luxury tax payable from next year
Not suitable for longer distances
Battery degradation
High price
Depreciation
Reliability - in the latest analysis of reliability by Which? 28% of Audi e-tron owners had to have their complete batteries replaced during their ownership ...(Tesla being 17% of Model S and 37% of Model X.)
Fires, Anglesey ban etc
Much higher insurance costs
Soulless white goods
Unsuitable for any kind of towing

Have you got a link to the E-tron battery issue covered by Which? I have an E-tron and have never heard of any battery issues, so I'm genuinely interested.

[ben5575]

Ankh87 said:

takes me 3 minutes to add 700 miles, so yes 10-15 minutes is an age to wait for a fraction of that. I guess if you don't mind waiting that time then fair enough.

Takes me 2 minutes in total over the course of a month to add 1800 miles to my EV when I charge it at home each night. Costs me £33 as well. As you say, if you don't mind waiting that time to fill your ICE car then fair enough.

[Essarell]

Dave200 said:

tupak798 said:

Not for a lot of people really.

I did consider an EV but the scales are still massively in favour of ICE such that EV only really makes sense at the moment as a 2nd or 3rd car for edge cases.
What I liked about EVs:
Acceleration and speed
Potentially cheaper charging at home (but for how long…?)
What I didn’t:
Range – particularly this time of year, cold conditions, warm conditions

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6345044874112

Charging network, broken chargers, non standardized apps, lack of free chargers,
Charging time much longer than refilling with fuel
Charger queues and congestion, e.g. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11579649/...
Weight and handling
Charging in cold conditions
Charging in warm conditions
Tax: Congestion charge exemption ends next year
VED luxury tax payable from next year
Not suitable for longer distances
Battery degradation
High price
Depreciation
Reliability - in the latest analysis of reliability by Which? 28% of Audi e-tron owners had to have their complete batteries replaced during their ownership ...(Tesla being 17% of Model S and 37% of Model X.)
Fires, Anglesey ban etc
Much higher insurance costs
Soulless white goods
Unsuitable for any kind of towing

Any reason why you keep posting the same exact thing across multiple threads?

An example of a family car that's absolutely no use as a family car? seems like valuable consumer information, might save some poor soul blowing 36K on future landfill.

interestingly (for me anyway) RR boasted on Instagram etc how the Spectre had delivered 2.8miles per Kw in testing, i reckon the road in question had an ever so slight downward gradient....

[Maracus]

Seasonal Hero said:

tupak798 said:

Not for a lot of people really.

I did consider an EV but the scales are still massively in favour of ICE such that EV only really makes sense at the moment as a 2nd or 3rd car for edge cases.
What I liked about EVs:
Acceleration and speed
Potentially cheaper charging at home (but for how long…?)
What I didn’t:
Range – particularly this time of year, cold conditions, warm conditions

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6345044874112

Charging network, broken chargers, non standardized apps, lack of free chargers,
Charging time much longer than refilling with fuel
Charger queues and congestion, e.g. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11579649/...
Weight and handling
Charging in cold conditions
Charging in warm conditions
Tax: Congestion charge exemption ends next year
VED luxury tax payable from next year
Not suitable for longer distances
Battery degradation
High price
Depreciation
Reliability - in the latest analysis of reliability by Which? 28% of Audi e-tron owners had to have their complete batteries replaced during their ownership ...(Tesla being 17% of Model S and 37% of Model X.)
Fires, Anglesey ban etc
Much higher insurance costs
Soulless white goods
Unsuitable for any kind of towing

As already asked, any reason why you must post the same thing over and over?

Mind you, Fox News and the Mail is telling.

It's comedy gold, makes a great read

[Seasonal Hero]

Essarell said:

An example of a family car that's absolutely no use as a family car for someone who tows a caravan every day and who has done zero research into the best solution for them?

FTFY.

[djc206]

Essarell said:

just spend a moment of your time out on the UK's roads, especially this impending bank holiday, my example is far from rare. In fact most vehicles will be loaded to the roofbox. I guess that's different though?

I have good insurance, not because i need it every day but because that once in blue moon time its needed it doesn't let me down, motorists feel the same way re EV, the thought of ending up stranded in a vehicle that in all likely hood will need (expensively) recovered is obviously a major concern. Still it's a PR problem apparently........

No they won’t. ~60% of journeys are solo occupancy with ~70% being less than 5 miles. The motorways will have a number of people carting a load of stuff hundreds of miles but they won’t even come close to a majority.

How often do you see an EV broken down at the side of the road vs an ICE car? Running out of juice is a minor concern vs general mechanical reliability because it’s within your control. If people worry about that sort of thing then yes it’s a PR problem because it’s not actually a real problem, it’s one they’ve read or heard from a mate or simply made up.

If you need something very occasionally you’re better off renting it. I don’t drive a van for example because I rarely need one and they can be rented for buttons. I don’t need an apartment in New Orleans because I only spend 4-5 days a year there, I rent a hotel room. Fringe use is not a justification for ownership of anything, it’s a logical fail or just a crap excuse.

[anonymous-user]

T_S_M said:

wormus said:

clockworks said:

wormus said:

Hmmm so that 15 minutes on a supercharger we were talking about to get you 150 miles will kill your battery? Doesn’t sound as good as the 450-600 miles you’ll get from filling an ICE car with a tank of fuel in 5 minutes. At 80% battery capacity, I wonder what the range is? Surely it’s the equivalent of buying a second hand phone that can barely make it through the day on a single charge? Meanwhile an ICE will do 250k miles with the same range and fuel efficiency. Doesn’t sound much progress to me.

No doubt some angry, small man will be along in a moment to tell me I’m wrong.

I've owned plenty of cars in the past 45 years.
I've never had a petrol car that would do 450 miles on a tank. Some would barely do 300.
I think I've owned just one diesel car that was capable of 600 miles, driven with care.

My diesel discovery does 450-500 miles on a full tank.

So around £120 to do 500 miles (assuming 80L tank and £1.53/litre).

My E-tron (of a similar size to a Discovery) costs £12 to do the same miles charging up at home.

Admittedly, that doesn't include charging at public chargers but purely from a financial perspective the savings can't be ignored for the majority of people, NOT EVERYONE. That's before you get to the £500+/year tax on the Discovery and the cost of servicing etc.

ETA: Someone might correct my maths, but doing 15k miles a year, that works out to £3600 in fuel alone for a Discovery, vs £350 a year for the E-tron (charged up exclusively at home). An extra £3,000 a year in fuel alone!

Edited by T_S_M on Thursday 28th March 11:23

Edited by T_S_M on Thursday 28th March 11:25

Very interesting, but the question was about cars that could do over 450 miles without refuelling, not how much it costs.

[Essarell]

Seasonal Hero said:

Essarell said:

An example of a family car that's absolutely no use as a family car for someone who tows a caravan every day and who has done zero research into the best solution for them?

FTFY.

or wants to actually use the climate control? carry passengers or cargo? your seriously choosing this example of a Shkoda as your hill to die on? you are better than this

[740EVTORQUES]

wormus said:

Very interesting, but the question was about cars that could do over 450 miles without refuelling, not how much it costs.

Why do you want to do 450 miles (at least 10 hours in the real world) without the need to refuel?

[anonymous-user]

740EVTORQUES said:

wormus said:

My diesel discovery does 450-500 miles on a full tank.

Many people would rather walk than drive a diesel Discovery though.

You may think differently when you have a family or tow big stuff. You need to grow pubes and pass your test first though.

[740EVTORQUES]

wormus said:

740EVTORQUES said:

wormus said:

My diesel discovery does 450-500 miles on a full tank.

Many people would rather walk than drive a diesel Discovery though.

You may think differently when you have a family or tow big stuff. You need to grow pubes and pass your test first though.

Having done that (the family holidays, not the caravan thing - horrid idea) I can tell you that you can't drive 450 miles with kids in the car and not expect to stop.

When I want my track day transporting I pay a man to do it for me, much nicer.

I did actually once have a Range Rover Sport as a loan car, hated it, and rang the hire company who supplied an XC90 instead the following day.

[Essarell]

740EVTORQUES said:

wormus said:

Very interesting, but the question was about cars that could do over 450 miles without refuelling, not how much it costs.

Why do you want to do 450 miles (at least 10 hours in the real world) without the need to refuel?

that's a good example, surely airliners don't need to travel 6000 miles in one go, transatlantic there's loads of places where they could land and grab a coffee whilst refuelling, who doesn't fancy a leg stretch in Newfoundland?..........it's efficiency, my time is more productive & cost effective working on site or more valuable at home with my family. In the 560 miles this will do to a tank is time saved to me, similarly i don't need to "hypermile" with the HGV's so in every hour i cover 10 more miles, that soon adds up over a year.

[GT9]

tupak798 said:

Same reason the pro EV loons seem to keep posting the same nonsense, it seems they have goldfish memories. If people are actually considering buying an EV based on some of their more 'fanciful' statements it is clearly important to keep presenting the truth. All these criticisms remain very valid and explain why very few are buying them, which I understood was the topic of this thread.

Spidey senses are tingling.
I was curious as to who/what you might pick as inspiration for your newest login.

[T_S_M]

wormus said:

Very interesting, but the question was about cars that could do over 450 miles without refuelling, not how much it costs.

Why on earth would you want to drive from Dover to Edinburgh (8+ hours!) in one go?

Last year I drove back from Glasgow to Shropshire (300 miles) in my petrol car. I stopped half way for 20 minutes because I needed whiz and was starving. If I'd have done this same journey in my EV, it would have taken exactly the same amount of time. I'd still need to stop for a whiz and crap Mcdonald's food, but my car would be charging at exactly the same time and have charged up enough in that time to get me home.

Edited by T_S_M on Thursday 28th March 14:04

[Seasonal Hero]

Essarell said:

that's a good example, surely airliners don't need to travel 6000 miles in one go, transatlantic there's loads of places where they could land and grab a coffee whilst refuelling, who doesn't fancy a leg stretch in Newfoundland?..........it's efficiency, my time is more productive & cost effective working on site or more valuable at home with my family. In the 560 miles this will do to a tank is time saved to me, similarly i don't need to "hypermile" with the HGV's so in every hour i cover 10 more miles, that soon adds up over a year.

Because famously airliners never stop in, say, the Middle East to refuel.

[RizzoTheRat]

wormus said:

My diesel discovery does 450-500 miles on a full tank.

My diesel Octavia does 500+, and in 13 years of ownership I've done that kind of mileage in one go precisely once.

[Seasonal Hero]

wormus said:

You may think differently when you have a family or tow big stuff. You need to grow pubes and pass your test first though.

Everyone say hi again to our resident 'sad, angry little man'

[John87]

Essarell said:

that's a good example, surely airliners don't need to travel 6000 miles in one go, transatlantic there's loads of places where they could land and grab a coffee whilst refuelling, who doesn't fancy a leg stretch in Newfoundland?..........it's efficiency, my time is more productive & cost effective working on site or more valuable at home with my family. In the 560 miles this will do to a tank is time saved to me, similarly i don't need to "hypermile" with the HGV's so in every hour i cover 10 more miles, that soon adds up over a year.

Do you have a toilet and somewhere to go walk inside your car? Not sure an airliner is a valid comparison.

I drive faster in my EV than I ever did with ICE because I don't need to worry about efficiency. 95% of journeys are within the range of the car and it costs pennies extra to go faster.

[GT9]

Wormus breaking forum rule number 1 again.

1. The minimum age to be a member on PistonHeads is 13 years old.