EVs... no one wants them!

[JAMSXR]

Boringvolvodriver said:

Now this is where I start to struggle with the maths - say it went up to £20 compared to say approx £60 for a petrol car doing 40 mpg ish that is a saving of £40 per 350 miles. So on 10000 miles a year a saving of £1150 (if my brain is working).

A new Golf can be had for let’s say £27,000 whilst an ID3 is £36,000 - not allowing for depreciation it will take 8 years to recoup the extra cost.

I admit I don’t know whether the serving costs are lower (I would expect them to be?) but the price differential has to come down to encourage people like me to purchase an electric car.

If you buy used the price has already come down lower than ICE.

[Dave200]

JAMSXR said:

If you buy used the price has already come down lower than ICE.

It's only been a few pages since the argument was about how used EV prices had tanked which showed a lack of demand, but now they are back to being too expensive again. It's hard to keep up.

[eliot]

Dave200 said:

I'm currently paying a tenner for 350 miles. That feels too cheap, not that I'm complaining. But even if it was double that I'd still not grumble too much.

Something will have to be done at some point because the government collect 53p duty and 20% vat on every litre of fuel sold, but only collect 5% vat on every kwh of domestic electricity sold.

Google suggests £26bn is raised on tax and duty - let’s assume hgv isn’t going ev anytime soon, so maybe £10bn deficit in tax that will need to be collected elsewhere


They cant do anything just yet - because ev sales would tank, but there will be a crossover point where they know they can implement it without any pushback - probably when ice cars are no longer made or prohibitively expensive.

proper bik rates for ev will return at some point too.

[Essarell]

The pro EV comments run along the lines of, “EV for round the doors and ice for when we need to travel farther than the next postcode “ The government mandate means we now have 2.5 t cordless vehicles on our city streets, who would have thought that this unintended consequence would befall us?

If it’s a cheap, reliable, practical car that’s required then why not one of these:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024031375...

Cool as a penguins undercarriage

[Dave200]

eliot said:

Dave200 said:

I'm currently paying a tenner for 350 miles. That feels too cheap, not that I'm complaining. But even if it was double that I'd still not grumble too much.

Something will have to be done at some point because the government collect 53p duty and 20% vat on every litre of fuel sold, but only collect 5% vat on every kwh of domestic electricity sold.

Google suggests £26bn is raised on tax and duty - let’s assume hgv isn’t going ev anytime soon, so maybe £10bn deficit in tax that will need to be collected elsewhere


They cant do anything just yet - because ev sales would tank, but there will be a crossover point where they know they can implement it without any pushback - probably when ice cars are no longer made or prohibitively expensive.

proper bik rates for ev will return at some point too.

The problem is that it's possible to have a car charger installed that doesn't talk to the grid as I have. In that scenario it's impossible for the energy companies to tell what I'm using that overnight cheap energy rate for.

[Dave200]

Essarell said:

The pro EV comments run along the lines of, “EV for round the doors and ice for when we need to travel farther than the next postcode “ The government mandate means we now have 2.5 t cordless vehicles on our city streets, who would have thought that this unintended consequence would befall us?

If it’s a cheap, reliable, practical car that’s required then why not one of these:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024031375...

Cool as a penguins undercarriage

I don't think that's what people here have said. My EV is our primary car and does more than the national average mileage per year. I have other cars but they are getting increasingly less use.

[Seasonal Hero]

No but he is very keen on misrepresenting things.

And of course now a Panda is presented as a solution.

[djc206]

Essarell said:

The pro EV comments run along the lines of, “EV for round the doors and ice for when we need to travel farther than the next postcode “ The government mandate means we now have 2.5 t cordless vehicles on our city streets, who would have thought that this unintended consequence would befall us?

If it’s a cheap, reliable, practical car that’s required then why not one of these:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024031375...

Cool as a penguins undercarriage

In the interests of urban air quality you do really want zero tailpipe emissions vehicles in cities. Most ICE cars are a bit chubby these days so the claims around extra weight of an EV are a bit of red herring besides which a Tesla model 3 weighs a broadly similar amount to a 3 series diesel. We all know which one is preferable from an AQI persepective.

[ChocolateFrog]

eliot said:

Something will have to be done at some point because the government collect 53p duty and 20% vat on every litre of fuel sold, but only collect 5% vat on every kwh of domestic electricity sold.

Google suggests £26bn is raised on tax and duty - let’s assume hgv isn’t going ev anytime soon, so maybe £10bn deficit in tax that will need to be collected elsewhere


They cant do anything just yet - because ev sales would tank, but there will be a crossover point where they know they can implement it without any pushback - probably when ice cars are no longer made or prohibitively expensive.

proper bik rates for ev will return at some point too.

Road tax is way too cheap, silly cheap for all but the top couple of categories.

It's needs completely overhauling. I'd start by basing it on weight with the starting price at £300pa. Have the average in the £4-500 range and if you want to run a 3t FFRR then make it something like £2kpa.

I'm not sure why most cars on the road pay virtually nothing (less than 50p a day).

[Essarell]

ChocolateFrog said:

Road tax is way too cheap, silly cheap for all but the top couple of categories.

It's needs completely overhauling. I'd start by basing it on weight with the starting price at £300pa. Have the average in the £4-500 range and if you want to run a 3t FFRR then make it something like £2kpa.

I'm not sure why most cars on the road pay virtually nothing (less than 50p a day).

Yeah definitely make it even more expensive to get to work…….im guessing your a SPAD to the current shadow chancellor?

[djc206]

ChocolateFrog said:

Road tax is way too cheap, silly cheap for all but the top couple of categories.

It's needs completely overhauling. I'd start by basing it on weight with the starting price at £300pa. Have the average in the £4-500 range and if you want to run a 3t FFRR then make it something like £2kpa.

I'm not sure why most cars on the road pay virtually nothing (less than 50p a day).

A matrix of weight and emissions (I wouldn’t use CO2 personally) would seem logical. After all someone driving a 3t FFRR electric around an urban area is slightly preferable to a 2.8t FFRR petrol and significantly better than a 2.8t FFRR diesel.

[EddieSteadyGo]

Dave200 said:

I don't think that's what people here have said. My EV is our primary car and does more than the national average mileage per year. I have other cars but they are getting increasingly less use.

When I originally switched to running two electric cars, one my myself and one for my wife, we decided initially to keep our older s-max as a spare, just in case. In the end, we found we never needed it or used it, and so we sold it, figuring I could always hire a car for the odd day we might need something different. In the end, we have never needed to do that either.

I've driven my Tesla all over the UK and taken it several times to the alps. It's a pleasure to use and own.

[ChocolateFrog]

Essarell said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Road tax is way too cheap, silly cheap for all but the top couple of categories.

It's needs completely overhauling. I'd start by basing it on weight with the starting price at £300pa. Have the average in the £4-500 range and if you want to run a 3t FFRR then make it something like £2kpa.

I'm not sure why most cars on the road pay virtually nothing (less than 50p a day).

Yeah definitely make it even more expensive to get to work…….im guessing your a SPAD to the current shadow chancellor?

Signal passed at danger? Hopefully not.

Yeah it's monumentally expensive.

Cost me less than 50p to do the 21 miles to work this morning in my 2t personal transport.

It would cost about £2.50 on the train and I'd still need to get the station.

Personal transport is epically cheap, by a factor of 10 if we're actually interested in fixing some problems.

[ChocolateFrog]

djc206 said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Road tax is way too cheap, silly cheap for all but the top couple of categories.

It's needs completely overhauling. I'd start by basing it on weight with the starting price at £300pa. Have the average in the £4-500 range and if you want to run a 3t FFRR then make it something like £2kpa.

I'm not sure why most cars on the road pay virtually nothing (less than 50p a day).

A matrix of weight and emissions (I wouldn’t use CO2 personally) would seem logical. After all someone driving a 3t FFRR electric around an urban area is slightly preferable to a 2.8t FFRR petrol and significantly better than a 2.8t FFRR diesel.

I did think about that but if they reinstated the fuel duty escalator that would take care of that element.

Edited by ChocolateFrog on Friday 29th March 08:56

[Seasonal Hero]

EddieSteadyGo said:

When I originally switched to running two electric cars, one my myself and one for my wife, we decided initially to keep our older s-max as a spare, just in case. In the end, we found we never needed it or used it, and so we sold it, figuring I could always hire a car for the odd day we might need something different. In the end, we have never needed to do that either.

I've driven my Tesla all over the UK and taken it several times to the alps. It's a pleasure to use and own.

No you’re wrong. You are only able to drive it to the next post code. It’ll run out in 15 miles. You need either a diesel Discovery or a Panda.

[Boringvolvodriver]

dmsims said:

No this again



Slower, smaller, less economical

and you are going to add more equipment to get near the ID3 Match

e.g. Matrix headlights, rear camera

Boringvolvodriver said:

A new Golf can be had for let’s say £27,000 whilst an ID3 is £36,000 - not allowing for depreciation it will take 8 years to recoup the extra cost.

Fair point - I haven’t bought a new car for a while so hadn’t quite realized how expensive a entry level golf has become.

[Maracus]

Seasonal Hero said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

When I originally switched to running two electric cars, one my myself and one for my wife, we decided initially to keep our older s-max as a spare, just in case. In the end, we found we never needed it or used it, and so we sold it, figuring I could always hire a car for the odd day we might need something different. In the end, we have never needed to do that either.

I've driven my Tesla all over the UK and taken it several times to the alps. It's a pleasure to use and own.

No you’re wrong. You are only able to drive it to the next post code. It’ll run out in 15 miles. You need either a diesel Discovery or a Panda.

Or tow your Panda with your Diesel LR as you can't tow with an EV....ever

[soxboy]

Boringvolvodriver said:

Now this is where I start to struggle with the maths - say it went up to £20 compared to say approx £60 for a petrol car doing 40 mpg ish that is a saving of £40 per 350 miles. So on 10000 miles a year a saving of £1150 (if my brain is working).

A new Golf can be had for let’s say £27,000 whilst an ID3 is £36,000 - not allowing for depreciation it will take 8 years to recoup the extra cost.

I admit I don’t know whether the serving costs are lower (I would expect them to be?) but the price differential has to come down to encourage people like me to purchase an electric car.

Your basing your calculations on list price of new models. If you only buy brand new from a dealer and don’t shop around then fair enough, but in the real world how many people actually do that?

May be worth rerunning the calculations on this and see how long it takes?

[Essarell]

Maracus said:

Seasonal Hero said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

When I originally switched to running two electric cars, one my myself and one for my wife, we decided initially to keep our older s-max as a spare, just in case. In the end, we found we never needed it or used it, and so we sold it, figuring I could always hire a car for the odd day we might need something different. In the end, we have never needed to do that either.

I've driven my Tesla all over the UK and taken it several times to the alps. It's a pleasure to use and own.

No you’re wrong. You are only able to drive it to the next post code. It’ll run out in 15 miles. You need either a diesel Discovery or a Panda.

Or tow your Panda with your Diesel LR as you can't tow with an EV....ever

I’m guessing this is the kind of thing that tickles your charging leads?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024010953...

BYD, keeping oppressive, communist states in power so we can st on our own economy but in a green, virtuous signalling way?

[nickfrog]

Essarell said:

I’m guessing this is the kind of thing that tickles your charging leads?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024010953...

BYD, keeping oppressive, communist states in power so we can st on our own economy but in a green, virtuous signalling way?

I assume you're not using anything from China.

And that to you, AQ is essentially about virtue signalling. Absolutely nothing else.

Opinions may vary fortunately.