EVs... no one wants them!
Discussion
740EVTORQUES said:
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If petrol and especially diesel cars were taxed in relation to the environmental and health harms these cause then they would be taxed more heavily even than now.
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My view is that we will look back at the time when we allowed petrol and diesel cars to belch out poisonous fumes like the time before the smoking ban in pubs. If petrol and especially diesel cars were taxed in relation to the environmental and health harms these cause then they would be taxed more heavily even than now.
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I remember going to the pub before the ban, and even though I didn't smoke, my clothes the following day would reek and be almost stiff with the odour of stale smoke. That used to be normal. Only the most selfish smoker would want to go back to that time.
Now if I take my kids to school in the morning, there is often a long queue of traffic, mostly petrol and diesels, all pushing out various oxides and particulates. And we all have to breathe it in, including children, whether we like it or not.
I suspect in the future, people won't believe how our current society cared so little about the quality of air that we breathe.
740EVTORQUES said:
Actually that’s not right.
If petrol and especially diesel cars were taxed in relation to the environmental and health harms these cause then they would be taxed more heavily even than now.
Let alone commercial airliners. Air travel would be priced out of all but the wealthiest tourists.
There’s a good case for keeping taxes on EVs lower as they cause less damage to the environment both local and global.
Air travel isn’t as bad as it’s made out to be. An A320 burns roughly 3000 litres per hour. With 180 sun-seekers on board that’s less than 70 litres each to get from London to Majorca and back. Trivial really considering most people only do it once or twice a year.If petrol and especially diesel cars were taxed in relation to the environmental and health harms these cause then they would be taxed more heavily even than now.
Let alone commercial airliners. Air travel would be priced out of all but the wealthiest tourists.
There’s a good case for keeping taxes on EVs lower as they cause less damage to the environment both local and global.
EFA
EddieSteadyGo said:
Now if I take my kids to school in the morning, there is often a long queue of traffic, diesels, pushing out various oxides and particulates. And we all have to breathe it in, including children, whether we like it or not.
I suspect in the future, people won't believe how our current society cared so little about the quality of air that we breathe.
I suspect in the future, people won't believe how our current society cared so little about the quality of air that we breathe.
dmsims said:
EFA
Mind you aren’t the latest diesels supposed to be clean enough not to be charged for the ULEZ?EddieSteadyGo said:
Now if I take my kids to school in the morning, there is often a long queue of traffic, diesels, pushing out various oxides and particulates. And we all have to breathe it in, including children, whether we like it or not.
I suspect in the future, people won't believe how our current society cared so little about the quality of air that we breathe.
I suspect in the future, people won't believe how our current society cared so little about the quality of air that we breathe.
I would rather the narrative was that electric cars are better for clean air (which undoubtedly they are) than for the CO2 emissions causing climate change.
Dave200 said:
But the government aren't mandating that all non-evs are crushed in January 2035. And I think you'll still be able to buy hybrids if new cars are your bag It's not the end of the world.
Not in the UK as things stand - new cars sold will have to be Zero emissions, defined as 0g/km CO2 to WLTP from 2035 so that means no petrol or Diesel hybrids. dmsims said:
No this again 
Slower, smaller, less economical
and you are going to add more equipment to get near the ID3 Match
e.g. Matrix headlights, rear camera
This shows what I've been thinking recently, i.e. that petrol and BEV cars have become much closer in price than they were a few years ago. I checked in the early Leaf years and roughly the Leaf was about 70% more than a Note or Pulsar, hybrids similar (Ampera was double the price of an Astra) but the spec differences made comparisons difficult.Slower, smaller, less economical
and you are going to add more equipment to get near the ID3 Match
e.g. Matrix headlights, rear camera
Boringvolvodriver said:
A new Golf can be had for let’s say £27,000 whilst an ID3 is £36,000 - not allowing for depreciation it will take 8 years to recoup the extra cost.
Your example is probably a reasonable match now, i.e. Golf auto vs ID.3 are both about £35,000.
Can't help thinking it's all happened since the elec price cap went up, probably connected!
Chuffedmonkey said:
CABC said:
if it was the Outlander that's a tax dodge car and a fail at so many levels.
for the future, petrol generator yes, but not drivetrain. I feel governments haven't helped the transition by promoting (poor) hybrids and not the infrastructure.
Poor infrastructure I agree. I do 400 to 600 mile a week and could charge at home but I own a non charge Hybrid, I cant charge it as it works hand in hand with the engine. However I get 50-58 MPG with a 2 liter petrol engine, 400 miles for around £ 50. Hybrids are good so I don't agree with your poor hybrid statement.for the future, petrol generator yes, but not drivetrain. I feel governments haven't helped the transition by promoting (poor) hybrids and not the infrastructure.
When I change in a year or several, as I plan on keeping this car for a while, ill look at Electric or keep the tech I am used too.
I've noticed a fair few Prius with less than impressive mpg, though I'll concede their batteries might be well past their best.
Boringvolvodriver said:
Mind you aren’t the latest diesels supposed to be clean enough not to be charged for the ULEZ?
I would rather the narrative was that electric cars are better for clean air (which undoubtedly they are) than for the CO2 emissions causing climate change.
Why, because even when fuelled from a mixed renewable/ fossil fuel grid like in the U.K. every lifecycle analysis shows that BEVs have at most 1/2 the lifetime CO2 emissions of a similar IVE vehicle and in most cases substantially less.I would rather the narrative was that electric cars are better for clean air (which undoubtedly they are) than for the CO2 emissions causing climate change.
So it’s not just that they have lower local emissions.
Essarell said:
Maracus said:
Seasonal Hero said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
When I originally switched to running two electric cars, one my myself and one for my wife, we decided initially to keep our older s-max as a spare, just in case. In the end, we found we never needed it or used it, and so we sold it, figuring I could always hire a car for the odd day we might need something different. In the end, we have never needed to do that either.
I've driven my Tesla all over the UK and taken it several times to the alps. It's a pleasure to use and own.
No you’re wrong. You are only able to drive it to the next post code. It’ll run out in 15 miles. You need either a diesel Discovery or a Panda. I've driven my Tesla all over the UK and taken it several times to the alps. It's a pleasure to use and own.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2024010953...
BYD, keeping oppressive, communist states in power so we can s
t on our own economy but in a green, virtuous signalling way?
Dave200 said:
The problem is that it's possible to have a car charger installed that doesn't talk to the grid as I have. In that scenario it's impossible for the energy companies to tell what I'm using that overnight cheap energy rate for.
yes - and the opposite is true where you can run your house during the day using cheap overnight ev charging tariffs. But things will change because they will have to,
Essarell said:
FWIW said:
Seasonal Hero said:
Whilst also running an ICE that keeps oppressive petro-chemical states in power.
Underrated comment. Reason enough to go full BEV, IMO.World’s largest ev producer is still building coal fired stations.
EddieSteadyGo said:
I suspect in the future, people won't believe how our current society cared so little about the quality of air that we breathe.
Anyway, as far as I’m aware most people do care. It’s only recently we’ve had a choice, and rushing out and buying an EV doesn’t make it all better. Needs must and ICE has been a vital tool for a good few generations, why would people have contempt for it.
Edited by JAMSXR on Friday 29th March 22:28
I practice bangernomics. My most recent purchase was a 1997 K11 Micra, bought unseen online, for £450. Fitted 1.3 engine, Webers etc, huge fun and puts a smile on my face every time. EVs will kill off that cheapskate approach to motoring. The batteries are snookered after a few years; and EV motoring will become just another dreary bourgeois exercise in white goods upmanship. Anyone who thinks that masses of torque and power makes for a satisfying sports car knows zip about driving. Most big fast heavy modern turbo ICE exec cars are dull to drive already, and big fast heavy EVs are merely a continuation of that boring trend. I'll happily get an EV for family duties once the range stops being a fraudulent joke, but i'm not about to confuse effortless speed with interactive fun.
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