Distance selling - rejection - delivery fee?

[ollyh1988]

Hi - just after some advice as can’t see anything on this.

Agreed to buy a car from a dealer. Charge of £175 to deliver the car, which was the only thing I paid before it arrived.

Car was not as described (sign of poor repair) and other small issues that weren’t visible from the pictures - so I rejected the car and it was taken back.

Under a distance sale, am I entitled to my cost for delivery back? At no point did the dealer confirm this was non-refundable and my main issue is that the car isn’t up to standard. I’m probably going to have to stomach the loss and move on and learn a lesson from this! Thanks.

[reddiesel]

Strictly speaking responsibility for delivery and associated costs should be outlined in your Terms and Conditions . Otherwise what you have is a verbal agreement where presumably you agreed to pay the delivery charge up front ? If that's the case then its my opinion that you won't get your money back .

[ollyh1988]

Yep more like the latter - no official paperwork just told ‘we will take the £175 off the invoice price so just pay that as the deposit’.
I’d always go and look at a car but this one seemed great but lesson learnt (expensively).

[reddiesel]

When buying second hand cars Olly we have all been there , you pay for your experience as my old man used to say so don’t let yourself get depressed about it . At least you had the good sense to reject the car , many people wouldn’t

[fridaypassion]

They are allowed to charge delivery yes.

The only thing incorrect paperwork will allow consumers to get away with is if they don't notify you of the right to return you can return it within 12 months at no penalty even if it's been used.

[Trevor555]

ollyh1988 said:

Hi - just after some advice as can’t see anything on this.

Agreed to buy a car from a dealer. Charge of £175 to deliver the car, which was the only thing I paid before it arrived.

This £175

Did you get an invoice?

Was it for delivery of the car?

Or a deposit to buy the car?

[jamei303]

You're not returning under the distance selling regs, but because it was not as described. As such you are entitled to a refund of the delivery charge.

[ollyh1988]

Thanks for all the replies.

I can’t find anything legal about being able to claim for the delivery fee to be returned.
All the dealer kept saying was ‘you saw the photos’ - yes, but not possible to see a panel gap and poor fit of a bonnet and the numbers written in pen underneath with all other manfufacturer stickers removed. Best part was when he said ‘all my cars are bought like that, just google what the markings mean’ - when I asked him if he knew he just said ‘no idea’. My guess is they are selling on some lightly damaged cars.
There was no invoice for the payment - just me agreeing to send £175 to cover delivery and then pay the rest once I was happy with the car.
Got a feeling chasing the money will take more time and not guaranteed of anything, so probably best to take it on the chin and leave them an honest review.

[was8v]

As above. Dealer won't want to refund you.

If you paid the deposit by credit card then chase them via this.

[OverSteery]

ollyh1988 said:

Car was not as described (sign of poor repair) and other small issues that weren’t visible from the pictures - so I rejected the car and it was taken back.

Just to be clear,
Were there clear statements in writing from the dealer that are obviously wrong?

[andymc]

ollyh1988 said:

Thanks for all the replies.

I can’t find anything legal about being able to claim for the delivery fee to be returned.
All the dealer kept saying was ‘you saw the photos’ - yes, but not possible to see a panel gap and poor fit of a bonnet and the numbers written in pen underneath with all other manfufacturer stickers removed. Best part was when he said ‘all my cars are bought like that, just google what the markings mean’ - when I asked him if he knew he just said ‘no idea’. My guess is they are selling on some lightly damaged cars.
There was no invoice for the payment - just me agreeing to send £175 to cover delivery and then pay the rest once I was happy with the car.
Got a feeling chasing the money will take more time and not guaranteed of anything, so probably best to take it on the chin and leave them an honest review.

take it as a lucky escape

[ollyh1988]

OverSteery said:

ollyh1988 said:

Car was not as described (sign of poor repair) and other small issues that weren’t visible from the pictures - so I rejected the car and it was taken back.

Just to be clear,
Were there clear statements in writing from the dealer that are obviously wrong?

Just his word that the car was in great condition. Couldn’t tell the bonnet wasn’t fitting properly in the dealer photo but obvious when it turned up.

A lucky escape but pity it cost so much.

[reddiesel]

ollyh1988 said:

Thanks for all the replies.

I can’t find anything legal about being able to claim for the delivery fee to be returned.
All the dealer kept saying was ‘you saw the photos’ - yes, but not possible to see a panel gap and poor fit of a bonnet and the numbers written in pen underneath with all other manfufacturer stickers removed. Best part was when he said ‘all my cars are bought like that, just google what the markings mean’ - when I asked him if he knew he just said ‘no idea’. My guess is they are selling on some lightly damaged cars.
There was no invoice for the payment - just me agreeing to send £175 to cover delivery and then pay the rest once I was happy with the car.
Got a feeling chasing the money will take more time and not guaranteed of anything, so probably best to take it on the chin and leave them an honest review.

I am glad you are taking this course of action because the thought of you possibly racking up legal fees on the basis of the fit of a particular panel and the poor fit of a bonnet horrifies me . All a Trader would have to say is its a second hand car , he saw the pictures and agreed to pay the delivery cost and indeed buy the car if he was happy . The Delivery Charge was always separate from the purchase of the Car and if you were being truthful you would have to agree with him . Panel Gaps are a moveable feast even on brand new cars and a variation does not make a car suddenly become " not as described ", granted it may make the car imperfect but many second hand cars are and that's exactly the argument the Traders Legal Representation would be making
In other words he acted in good faith at all times and you would have a hard time disputing that . I buy a couple of used Commercial Vehicles every year for my Business and I have come up against this scenario many times the last being on Thursday . The Vehicle in question is in Durham and the Dealer kindly offered to fetch it down . I noticed on its previous MOT history it had failed an MOT on the Offside Headlight being out of adjustment . With Mercedes Sprinters this would never happen unless it had an Offside wing replaced and the Bodyshop simply replaced the headlight without adjusting it . I put this to the Dealer and he was a bit flustered . I told him I wasn't necessarily bothered about the wing being replaced but I was concerned to know what else if anything had been repaired and what was the overall quality of the job . This is why I don't want you bringing the vehicle down to me I explained to him because if its not right then its hassle for both of us . He accepted what I was saying and we parted on amicable terms with me saying if I could get up to view then I would but meanwhile if he gets an offer then please just sell the van .
None of this made the vehicle " not as described " , neither legally nor where I personally was concerned .It just threw up a few possible question marks and its exactly the same for you with this rejected car . Learn you lesson and put it down to experience . You won't make the same mistake again and that's the important thing .

[jamei303]

You get the delivery fee refunded if it's not as described - e.g. if you ordered a X5 and they send a Fiesta with "X5" painted on the back you haven't received what you paid for, and this includes the separate purchase of the delivery of an X5 which is a service you didn't receive.

However in your case the description was not incorrect, so this doesn't apply.

[fridaypassion]

jamei303 said:

You get the delivery fee refunded if it's not as described - e.g. if you ordered a X5 and they send a Fiesta with "X5" painted on the back you haven't received what you paid for, and this includes the separate purchase of the delivery of an X5 which is a service you didn't receive.

However in your case the description was not incorrect, so this doesn't apply.

This is not the law in any way shape or form.

The dealer has done a poor job here it sounds like they have done a pretty poor job of managing a distance sale some dealers are just not cut out for it but also some stock profiles and customer demographics are totally not suitable for distance sales either and some businesses should and do stay away from distance sales.

The faults or otherwise are not important in terms of returning the car that's an absolute right either way but the dealer can charge for delivery and collection so expect 175 x 2 in this case. The delivery charge is not capped but has to be "reasonable". At my place it's £2.50 plus vat per mile.

The saving grace here for the OP is that the dealer sounds so clueless he might not realise he can charge for the delivery.

Those are the facts in law anyway the dealer absolutely is able to charge for the transport. The reason for return doesn't impact on this at all.

[andymc]

fridaypassion said:

jamei303 said:

You get the delivery fee refunded if it's not as described - e.g. if you ordered a X5 and they send a Fiesta with "X5" painted on the back you haven't received what you paid for, and this includes the separate purchase of the delivery of an X5 which is a service you didn't receive.

However in your case the description was not incorrect, so this doesn't apply.

This is not the law in any way shape or form.

The dealer has done a poor job here it sounds like they have done a pretty poor job of managing a distance sale some dealers are just not cut out for it but also some stock profiles and customer demographics are totally not suitable for distance sales either and some businesses should and do stay away from distance sales.

The faults or otherwise are not important in terms of returning the car that's an absolute right either way but the dealer can charge for delivery and collection so expect 175 x 2 in this case. The delivery charge is not capped but has to be "reasonable". At my place it's £2.50 plus vat per mile.

The saving grace here for the OP is that the dealer sounds so clueless he might not realise he can charge for the delivery.

Those are the facts in law anyway the dealer absolutely is able to charge for the transport. The reason for return doesn't impact on this at all.

I mean Jon, which garage would allow cash on collection?

[fridaypassion]

andymc said:

I mean Jon, which garage would allow cash on collection?

Actually yes I just re read the OP. Yeah deffo keep quiet on this one. Garage will be out of business shortly!

[RAB2000]

Are cars treated differently to other goods bought online under distance selling? I thought under those rules the delivery to you should be refunded (often sellers don't want to - I have had a couple of cases when the do once you request). The right to return is your own choice and should then be refunded.

However, the cost of sending the goods back (or the car in this case) comes down to the reason for the return. It also depends on T&Cs of the sale. They should state returns are at the cost of the buyer. If there's no mention of that in the T&Cs then the seller should refund the return costs as well. If the item is being returned due to being faulty or mis-described then the return costs should also be refunded.

So if the above applies to cars sold under distance selling I would expect the refund of the delivery costs. The return costs are then debatable as could easily be disputed by either party.

In this case it would seem the £175 should be refunded (unless the argument is that it is a non-refundable deposit and not for delivery cost?) There doesn't seem to have been a cost to return and probably wasn't in any T&Cs anyway.

As mentioned I thought (roughly) that's how it worked with goods generally, such as shoes that don't fit, so perhaps additional rules/allowances apply to cars.

[ollyh1988]

Thanks for all the replies.

I can’t find anything legal about being able to claim for the delivery fee to be returned.
All the dealer kept saying was ‘you saw the photos’ - yes, but not possible to see a panel gap and poor fit of a bonnet and the numbers written in pen underneath with all other manfufacturer stickers removed. Best part was when he said ‘all my cars are bought like that, just google what the markings mean’ - when I asked him if he knew he just said ‘no idea’. My guess is they are selling on some lightly damaged cars.
There was no invoice for the payment - just me agreeing to send £175 to cover delivery and then pay the rest once I was happy with the car.
Got a feeling chasing the money will take more time and not guaranteed of anything, so probably best to take it on the chin and leave them an honest review.

[jamei303]

It wasn't misdescribed. If you thought the photos were insufficient to see the sorts problems that might have concerned you, you should have asked for more detailed photos or gone to see it in person.