powerful naturally aspirated v8 for £30k max

[Turbinox]

Are you after naturally aspirated because of how mushy and horrible turbos feel?

If so consider supercharged too, all the upsides of forced induction with none of the driveability downsides of turbos.



never said I was choosing NA because the turbos are horrible, and I don't think they are horrible, I just wish a different car.
I explained what I was looking for in my first message. I then explained again for what quality I wanted NA and only NA. so I repeat I don't like the sound of a supercharger, the throttle response will never be the same either, and finally the power is not delivered in the same way: all production cars that I saw: e55k, xkr, xjr etc have the same kind of torque curve that I don't want (very low torque peak, flat, and falls early)

Edited by Turbinox on Thursday 25th April 16:53

[Turbinox]

I have driven quite a few NAs and been a passenger in many others. I really like the sound it makes, the construction crescendo of power and the nervousness, response but it lacks (shove in you back) well what I have tried so far, especially since I come from a old school turbo car 400hp+. the fact that it lacks this feeling can disappoint a little, I would like all the qualities listed above with that in addition. that's all

[Patrick Bateman]

Common theme for good reason I suspect...e39 M5 and some 6.2 V8 Mercedes variant.

No 6.2 experience but the M5 engine is brilliant for the road. 7200rpm redline, still does its best work at higher revs but very usable without having to wring its neck if you don't want to.

Bonus of being manual so more engaging than anything similar with paddles.

[Common Porpoise]

Turbinox said:

had a powerful turbo car, now I'm looking for a powerful car NA. I was never attracted to the compressor, maybe I'm wrong? but I don't like the moaning and in general cars have no crescendo of torque.

i just want na for:
-telepathic response from the accelerator
- sound
- simplicity
- crescendo delivery of torque
- red line above 6500rpm

Edited by Turbinox on Thursday 25th April 13:31

Have you tried an E90 M3? 8250 rpm motor is just glorious though. Its cross plane is more about revs than low down torque. I have no idea what i would replace mine with really.
The saloons are more expensive than the coupe but 30k will get you a very nice car

Edited by Common Porpoise on Thursday 25th April 21:44

[Turbinox]

yes, but it doesn't have the strong acceleration that I'm looking for. and not much low and torque

[GeniusOfLove]

This is a typical PH "what shall I buy thread" with a set of impossible and mutually contradictory requirements.

"I want loads of low torque like a turbocharged or supercharged car but no forced induction of any sort"

You're going to need high displacement, but you want it to rev like a beast too, which means you need a car with a Mercedes M156. There are no other options.

If the kids hadn't all gone back to school after Easter I'd chalk it up as another one of those threads.

[Turbinox]

GeniusOfLove said:

This is a typical PH "what shall I buy thread" with a set of impossible and mutually contradictory requirements.

"I want loads of low torque like a turbocharged or supercharged car but no forced induction of any sort"

You're going to need high displacement, but you want it to rev like a beast too, which means you need a car with a Mercedes M156. There are no other options.

If the kids hadn't all gone back to school after Easter I'd chalk it up as another one of those threads.

red line at 6500 seems a bit exaggerated, this is not in my initial message.
I don't think there's anything contradictory here. many vehicles were mentioned including the m156 of the c63 obviously. but there are other candidates like the m5 e39, the ls engine (even if I don't like the Monaro design etc. I'm not asking for torque like a turbo or a compressor besides that doesn't mean anything in itself. I especially talk about having a significant torque at low revs and good push in the seat.

[Turbinox]

Patrick Bateman said:

Common theme for good reason I suspect...e39 M5 and some 6.2 V8 Mercedes variant.

No 6.2 experience but the M5 engine is brilliant for the road. 7200rpm redline, still does its best work at higher revs but very usable without having to wring its neck if you don't want to.

Bonus of being manual so more engaging than anything similar with paddles.

this seems to be the 2 best candidates in terms of 4 door salon

[Common Porpoise]

Turbinox said:

yes, but it doesn't have the strong acceleration that I'm looking for. and not much low and torque

As above then, got to be an AMG 6.3
A mate just bought a gorgeous red XFR-S which I'm keen to experience but i doubt it will be as exciting as an S65 is above 4k!

[Common Porpoise]

... I've had the pleasure of driving a few E39 M5s and there's no way they feel as fast as the V8 M3. They are lovely but a very different feel

[Turbinox]

Common Porpoise said:

... I've had the pleasure of driving a few E39 M5s and there's no way they feel as fast as the V8 M3. They are lovely but a very different feel

They are fast, like the RS4s. you go fast but you don't get a strong push I find. c63 amg and m5 is not driven, can't say I guess. afterward we all hear and its opposite, some say that the m156 pushes hard in the seats others no etc. personally I distinguish: the shove felt and the feeling of "feel fast"

[cerb4.5lee]

Common Porpoise said:

Turbinox said:

had a powerful turbo car, now I'm looking for a powerful car NA. I was never attracted to the compressor, maybe I'm wrong? but I don't like the moaning and in general cars have no crescendo of torque.

i just want na for:
-telepathic response from the accelerator
- sound
- simplicity
- crescendo delivery of torque
- red line above 6500rpm

Edited by Turbinox on Thursday 25th April 13:31

Have you tried an E90 M3? 8250 rpm motor is just glorious though the flat plane is more about revs than low down torque. I have no idea what i would replace mine with really.
The saloons are more expensive than the coupe but 30k will get you a very nice car

Max power is 8300rpm in the E9x M3, and the redline is 8400rpm. The engine is like a V8 VTEC in some ways I reckon. Nothing happens lower down the revs, but they are ace at 6000rpm plus though for sure.

E9x M3 is cross plane and not flat plane as far as I'm aware.

[Turbinox]

I may be the only one here, but I don't particularly like high-speed engines... I've tried some of the best though. just not my cup of tea

[fflump]

I'd definitely check out the Granturismo Sport.
N/A 4.7 V8 with a ZF box with paddle shift.
One of the great sounding V8s.

Prices on these have softened substantially over the past year. £35k used to be the low point but now there are a good number under £30k and others within haggling distance.

[cerb4.5lee]

Turbinox said:

I may be the only one here, but I don't particularly like high-speed engines... I've tried some of the best though. just not my cup of tea

Generally I prefer gutsy/torque filled engines, and that is why I enjoy turbo engines(currently have 2 twin turbo engines). However in saying that, I also currently have 2 NA engines as well though. Both have their place I reckon.

[Turbinox]

cerb4.5lee said:

Turbinox said:

I may be the only one here, but I don't particularly like high-speed engines... I've tried some of the best though. just not my cup of tea

Generally I prefer gutsy/torque filled engines, and that is why I enjoy turbo engines(currently have 2 twin turbo engines). However in saying that, I also currently have 2 NA engines as well though. Both have their place I reckon.

I love turbo but that doesn't seem to be the norm here or elsewhere because of the boost threshold, lag, sound etc but the power delivered from an "analogue boosted" type turbo is really fun to drive for me. However, I would like to move on to a big serious na now. Afterwards I'm like you, I'm not a fan of something out of breath but I like the torque, feeling a strong engine. The na I've driven so far didn't have much feeling though.linear power reduces the sensation felt, so you need a lot of torque and power, need displacement (theory). however Idon't really have any idea what to expect from a big engine like 6.2, 4.9, 5.5 etc.

[ZX10R NIN]

The answer is a Mercedes with the 6.2 V8 in it

C63 with the Performance Pack:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308130...

Estate:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312184...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401235...

E63:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310102...

Or the 5.5 V8 E Coupe if you want a more subtle experience:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403167...

[Patrick Bateman]

It doesn't have to be one or the other, something that does both well whilst still having a nice NA throttle response, perhaps what I mentioned above...

I wouldn't rule out supercharged engines either. Have no complaints about the 4.2 in the XKR on throttle response and it has that initial shove from 2k that's plenty in itself and then explodes again at about 4k.

Edited by Patrick Bateman on Thursday 25th April 20:20

[Turbinox]

ZX10R NIN said:

The answer is a Mercedes with the 6.2 V8 in it

C63 with the Performance Pack:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202308130...

Estate:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202312184...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401235...

E63:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202310102...

Or the 5.5 V8 E Coupe if you want a more subtle experience:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202403167...

I've already heard about the 5.5 as a super engine. 6.2 better obviously. have you been able to drive cars equipped with one of its 2 engines? if so, do you think they will check the box in the seat-push acceleration and low-end torque department?

[Turbinox]

Patrick Bateman said:

It doesn't have to be one or the other, something that does both well whilst still having a nice NA throttle response, perhaps what I mentioned above...

I wouldn't rule out supercharged engines either. Have no complaints about the 4.2 in the XKR on throttle response and it has that initial shove from 2k that's plenty in itself and then explodes again at about 4k.

Edited by Patrick Bateman on Thursday 25th April 20:20

It annoys me when people tell me supercharged again and again. I specified na again and again and I am told again and again about an xkr or xf or xj etc