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verba1
Original Poster
362 posts
37 months
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I understand the pro alloy's benefits for track use and when you want to up the power etc but would i feel a big difference compared to the original intercooler on my standard 3r which i mainly use for road / motorway . cheers
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R0162
2,435 posts
33 months
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R0162
2,435 posts
33 months
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andygtt
6,365 posts
133 months
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Big difference on the road? Standard car! Really chris?
Have to say my answer would be no, but seems there are differing views out there :-)
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Juno
1,342 posts
118 months
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I'd like to know if tbe end tank gets very hot when used on the road road ?
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R0162
2,435 posts
33 months
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My standard intercooler used to make the car suffer power loss badly on road use, and that was when in the UK..
I swapped over to the NM IC and it made a big difference.. the PA is even better at absorbing heat, so by my personal experience i stick by my answer..
if we are talking about crusing at 70mph down the motorwway then no it will not make a difference..but after a bit of heavy acceleration the standard IC used to get very hot.
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R0162
2,435 posts
33 months
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Juno said: I'd like to know if tbe end tank gets very hot when used on the road road ? Are you talking about the end tank on the cool side or hot side of the IC?
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TuxMan
7,144 posts
107 months
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The biggest problem with the std intercooler is while you are moving its fine , get stuck in traffic so everything heats up then its nigh on impossible to cool it down again ....no matter how fast you go 
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joust
14,468 posts
128 months
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To help out, from a "long standing owner" I've had 4 intercooler setups. 2 of the original ones on the M12 and M400, the "Faulks" upgrade (more internal surface area plus a fan) onthe M12, and now the Pro Alloy one with and without fan on the M400. Swaps have been "as per the instructions" with nothing else done. Here is my experience : All of them have suffered from causing the engine to back the power off, so none are "perfect". The worse is the original intercooler, where on hot days it would be backing the power off even if you were travelling at some speed. Removing the rear number plate is better than leaving it on and changing the intercooler in every case I could work out. The pro-alloy intercooler seems to sort itself out easier when it's failed to cool things better than any other one. The original intercooler, once too hot, would never cool back down and so you were pretty much stuffed with lower power. Fans seem to give varying results. They improve some situations (standing traffic), but probably are worse (nothing definitive, but I feel the power drop less overall now I have taken the fan off the pro-alloy one) when you are moving on. I am toying with the idea of building a small shroud and putting two fans on, but that's mainly an idle thought. Much discussion has been had about the design of the ends of the intercooler. I'm no expert, but as the killer seems to be the heat, not the flow of air, I personally think, compared to the standard intercooler, it's irrelevant. So, is it worth it? Probably not, but neither is almost anything else you spend on cars, and it does make an appreciable difference to when you get that "strangled" feeling from the engine when the ECU has backed the power off. You get that far less with the Pro Alloy intercooler, but it still happens so isn't the "perfect" cure. From what people post on here, the perfect cure requires lots of reflective tape, wrapping the entire exhaust system, turbo jackets, new seals for the intercooler box to the clam, and moving the rear number plate. All are far too much faff for me  J
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tonyvan
410 posts
77 months
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Charge cooler brings temps down within 30 seconds.now weve been here b4.!!!!! Lol
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tonyvan
410 posts
77 months
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Charge cooler brings temps down within 30 seconds.now weve been here b4.!!!!! Lol
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R0162
2,435 posts
33 months
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You could add a water sprayer, just spray whenever you the IC gets too hot, very easy and cheap to setup, I found it to be very effective, I upgraded to a 2 pump system and the spray pattern is very wide..
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R0162
2,435 posts
33 months
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You could add a water sprayer, just spray whenever you the IC gets too hot, very easy and cheap to setup, I found it to be very effective, I upgraded to a 2 pump system and the spray pattern is very wide..
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Juno
1,342 posts
118 months
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R0162 said: Are you talking about the end tank on the cool side or hot side of the IC? The hot side ! Mind you I dont have a hot side 
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andygtt
6,365 posts
133 months
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Juno said: R0162 said: Are you talking about the end tank on the cool side or hot side of the IC? The hot side ! Mind you I dont have a hot side If that's the case you have a massive gain to be had by removing the intercooler as it's not needed anymore? My hot side gets very hot while on dyno because the charge heats it up.... But the cold side remains cool to touch... Heat soak is reduced over stock as I moved the turbo away from intercooler a bit and opened the area up so air could escape when stationary (unlike stock) Unless you actually move the turbo you can't have stopped this unless physics have stopped applying? Question for OP.... Have you noticed the car back off power because of heat? If not then you will not see a gain from an upgrade... If like some others you have then it will stop this:-) worth mentioning in 30k of using my car stock as an everyday mule it was only driving all round Europe on a south of France holiday that I noticed power drops.
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Juno
1,342 posts
118 months
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R0162 said: Are you talking about the end tank on the cool side or hot side of the IC? The hot side end tank is considerably cooler than the feeding pipe work. It's as if there is am immediate drop in temperature as soon as the air leaves the pipe and enteres the end tank. This could be due to end tank being inside the housing in the cool air flow though and we do have the defuser which is also drawing hot air out of the engine bay? Surely if the end tank is not red hot this will assist with cooling through the intercooler and the associated heat sink thus making cooling through the intercooler less effective?
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GTO600
1,426 posts
120 months
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Juno said: The hot side end tank is considerably cooler than the feeding pipe work. It's as if there is am immediate drop in temperature as soon as the air leaves the pipe and enteres the end tank. This could be due to end tank being inside the housing in the cool air flow though and we do have the defuser which is also drawing hot air out of the engine bay?
Surely if the end tank is not red hot this will assist with cooling through the intercooler and the associated heat sink thus making cooling through the intercooler less effective?
Juno, sorry but your talking rubbish. If your turbos are on boost then the inlet air into the Intercooler will be hot & regardless of how hot or not your end tank feels is irrelavent as you need to probe the actual air itself. Perhaps though your not producing any boost so as Andy suggest you might aswell remove your intercooler...!
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joust
14,468 posts
128 months
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Hotter is better on the input as, for many reasons unknown, hot fluids cool quicker than warm fluids to a specific temp.
Ergo, as long as the intercooler thermo transfer isn't overwhelmed (which the pro-alloy seems not to be when you are moving), then hotter in is indeed cooler out. You may have seen recently the question on why boiling water freezes quicker than warm water - for some reason, even though it has to get through the same point as the warm water, the rate of loss seems to enable more energy to be lost overall. If you can work that out you can claim a decent prize.
So sorry Juno, you are indeed not talking physics as observed in the real world.
J
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joust
14,468 posts
128 months
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andygtt said: Question for OP.... Have you noticed the car back off power because of heat? If not then you will not see a gain from an upgrade... If like some others you have then it will stop this:-)
worth mentioning in 30k of using my car stock as an everyday mule it was only driving all round Europe on a south of France holiday that I noticed power drops. What I said, although I do notice the power drop reasonably often even with it in.
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Juno
1,342 posts
118 months
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GTO600 said: Juno, sorry but your talking rubbish. If your turbos are on boost then the inlet air into the Intercooler will be hot & regardless of how hot or not your end tank feels is irrelavent as you need to probe the actual air itself.
Perhaps though your not producing any boost so as Andy suggest you might aswell remove your intercooler...! Sorry im probably not making myself clear so ill go for the longer version with full explanation. Obviously it is a given that the boost air will be at a temperature detemined by the use of the car and running of the engine. Off course the external temps are no indication of the actual air inside the pipes. The reason I am asking about the end tanks is as follows! Where I have seen the end tanks of intercoolers sitting outside of the original intercooler housing it appears that this causes the end tank on the hot side to get very hot/red hot. Theres probably two reasons for this 1.its got hot air going in at a tempertaure that I know we cannot alter! and 2.its in the hot part of the engine bay with no cooling which I think is the more important part. Obviously I know that the end tank plays no part in cooling the air before it goes through the intercooler, the function of the end tank is to distribute the air through as much of the intercooler as possible as evenly as possible thus using the full surface area of the intercooler to its maximum capbability, which will never be 100% because the damn air just wont all go where we want it too! The point I am trying to make when I ask about the end tank being hot is relevent in my belief because of the resulting heat soak to the rest of the intercooler. If the end tank becomes red hot it heats up both the intercooler housing and at least the first 25% or so of the intercooler itself. We all appear to have a rubber hose between the intercooler and the inlet hard pipe, therefore giving us in effect a thermal break which stops the heat transfer from hard pipe to intercooler. Whilst i fully appreciate the air inside will not know about this and remain at what ever temp it is boosting at as it travels on its journey surely??? it is better for the end tank to remain cool thus not heat soaking to the rest of the intercooler further reducing its effectiveness or requiring it to work much harder in its remaining 75% to achieve the same result. I understand the phyiscs of what Justin is saying about matter going from hot to cold better than from warm to cold.However at some point we need this cool place for this transition to take place and surely that place is our intercooler,100% of it if possible and not just the remaing 75 or so % that isnt heat soaked. I await to be shot down but hope this better explains my thoughts. Other than that I will just have to try and drive quicker increasing my boost pressures
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