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daddysumo

2,489 posts

98 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
Gadgeroonie said:
thats interesting - never had mine hold back on the boost

can it drop boost down to 0.5 bar ?

so it is totally possible there is nothing wrong with the car after all
next test is to see if it pulls 0.7 bar on the road

Edited by Gadgeroonie on Monday 1st October 22:55
well I would have thought that if the capsules are 0.5 bar, then yes if the boost solenoid does not act upon them they will open at their spring pressure... thought this was your bread and butter and you would be telling me..

Gadgeroonie

5,316 posts

121 months

[news] 
Monday 1st October 2012 quote quote all
Trevor was hinting that it might not work as expected

if the spring pressure on a std car is 0.5 bar then that would make sense - i am not sure what the spring pressure is on the std actuators

YellowShed

579 posts

168 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Gadgeroonie said:
Trevor was hinting that it might not work as expected

if the spring pressure on a std car is 0.5 bar then that would make sense - i am not sure what the spring pressure is on the std actuators
Mike,

I said that the ECU target is reduced. The actual wastegate duty cycle is on a fairly weak PID from the open-loop duty cycle. The minimum achieved boost is also, of course, limited to the pre-load from the actuators (which would be 0.3Bar on a standard 3/3R). Hence the ECU "does it's best".

YellowShed

playalistic

1,571 posts

49 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Now I know how my non computer programmer friends feel when I talk about my job... confusedlaugh

andygtt

7,410 posts

149 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
the stock 3L turbos make .38 bar... however the ecu 'fools' the engine into making .7bar and thus more power!
When things get hot the ecu stops fooling it and it can drop back to the .38bar.

Hot intercooler will mean lower boost... if thats what happened on the rollers then mystery solved.

This is why people fit the larger intercooler as on track the stock one very quickly cant cool the inlet charge and thus the ecu backs the boost/power away.... you don't gain power, just stops you loosing it.

the solution is to take it on the road and see if it makes .7bar on full throttle over 3000rpm.

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Blu3R

1,780 posts

84 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
brappage said:
Spoke to Skip at bespoke and think I'm going to make the trip down to let him have a look at it and see what is required. He agrees it must definately be down on power going by the results and the boost it ran. Will let them sort all the other bits and pieces while it is in.

If im going to go the stronger actuators and map stage I would ideally be looking to have the exhaust and intercooler fitted beforehand to make the most of it. Would be as far as I would be looking to take it power wise. Ideally want a balance of speed and reliability, if thats possible!
You could have a lovely exhaust fitted there at the same time if you wish wink

TuxMan

8,167 posts

123 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
Don't forget to check the cats as well !!!

Tux

Gordyma

131 posts

27 months

[news] 
Tuesday 2nd October 2012 quote quote all
brappage said:
Spoke to Skip at bespoke and think I'm going to make the trip down to let him have a look at it and see what is required. He agrees it must definately be down on power going by the results and the boost it ran. Will let them sort all the other bits and pieces while it is in.

If im going to go the stronger actuators and map stage I would ideally be looking to have the exhaust and intercooler fitted beforehand to make the most of it. Would be as far as I would be looking to take it power wise. Ideally want a balance of speed and reliability, if thats possible!
Think it's best to run it down the road and have them check it along with your other problems. Maybe also worth mentioning that you used x2 as much fuel as the two other 3L Nobles on the recent run, I can't imagine you were going significantly harder than I was so it all might be connected.

Fett

201 posts

61 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Gordyma said:
Think it's best to run it down the road and have them check it along with your other problems. Maybe also worth mentioning that you used x2 as much fuel as the two other 3L Nobles on the recent run, I can't imagine you were going significantly harder than I was so it all might be connected.
Updated fuel gauge? Just saw from your profile yours is a 3 and Brappage has a 3R. May give the impression extra fuel was used. Just a thought.

Gordyma

131 posts

27 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Fett said:
Gordyma said:
Think it's best to run it down the road and have them check it along with your other problems. Maybe also worth mentioning that you used x2 as much fuel as the two other 3L Nobles on the recent run, I can't imagine you were going significantly harder than I was so it all might be connected.
Updated fuel gauge? Just saw from your profile yours is a 3 and Brappage has a 3R. May give the impression extra fuel was used. Just a thought.
Unlikely unless its his gauge. Mine has a very interesting way of displaying where it stays full for 100 miles and empty for about 50 miles with the 1/4 to 3/4 lasting only 75ish!!! I filled and drove 200+ and it's still got fuel in it, I'd need to ask him how much fuel he put in after 115 miles!!

Gordyma

131 posts

27 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Gordyma said:
Fett said:
Gordyma said:
Think it's best to run it down the road and have them check it along with your other problems. Maybe also worth mentioning that you used x2 as much fuel as the two other 3L Nobles on the recent run, I can't imagine you were going significantly harder than I was so it all might be connected.
Updated fuel gauge? Just saw from your profile yours is a 3 and Brappage has a 3R. May give the impression extra fuel was used. Just a thought.
Unlikely unless its his gauge. Mine has a very interesting way of displaying where it stays full for 100 miles and empty for about 50 miles with the 1/4 to 3/4 lasting only 75ish!!! I filled and drove 200+ and it's still got fuel in it, I'd need to ask him how much fuel he put in after 115 miles!!
Oh I forgot there was amother 3R on the run and his gauge/fuel use was the same as mine.

R0162

2,435 posts

49 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Like Simon says check the cats, but also check the manifolds, you might be losing some of all that all important exhaust gases to spool the turbos, also make sure the vacuum pipe in not pushed on too far under the throttle body.

Then check all the other vacuum pipes, to actuators, boost solenoid etc..it could be a wastegate opening too easily due to a faulty actuator, they are 0.3 bar as standard, but old ones are very weak and open at a measley 0.1 bar, due to a constant release it becomes difficult to reach target boost.

It could well be an overheating issue like Steve said, but the second run showed a drop in power which i would expect from a standard intercooler, i would not expect the first run to see intake temps above 60 even without fans as by nature it absorbs heat like a sponge i dont think it can become heat soaked after one run?, there fore i would look for a physical problem related to losing boost pressure.
You can try and check is see if it boosts to 0.7 on the road but then again the gauge is not very accurate.

Zoobeef

2,367 posts

43 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Gordyma said:
Oh I forgot there was amother 3R on the run and his gauge/fuel use was the same as mine.
My gauge shows empty after 40 liters so still has about 20 liters when its sat on empty.

It uses those 40 liters pretty evenly through the range of full to empty

Gordyma

131 posts

27 months

[news] 
Wednesday 3rd October 2012 quote quote all
Zoobeef said:
Gordyma said:
Oh I forgot there was amother 3R on the run and his gauge/fuel use was the same as mine.
My gauge shows empty after 40 liters so still has about 20 liters when its sat on empty.

It uses those 40 liters pretty evenly through the range of full to empty
Mine has a mind of its own!! I've driven from Glasgow to Keswick in the lakes 145 miles and gone from full to 1/4 tank filled up there and had 3/4 tank when back in Glasgow!! Have also filled up in Manchester and still had over 1/4 tank when back home. Generally its as above slow at first then quick then slow again.

brappage

Original Poster:

202 posts

29 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Well guys thanks for all the comments. Was holding back until I got a chance to take the car out. Cars boosting no problem to just over .7 of a bar on the boost gauge, which suggests it could be heat related on the rollers as it only boosted to .5 of a bar.

I think al book itin locally, get it checked out before I make the drive down. If the garage pull anything drastic up I'll head down but winter is fast approaching so the car won't be out anyway.

Then fuel things a strange one. I'm going to check that also as 100 miles to a tank is low but on a leisurely run I can still get good mpg, perhaps on the run I was just over eager and running in low gears.


Jmracing66

613 posts

124 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
Just out of interest did you buy old car from bespoke ? Blue 3R with about 33k miles ?

brappage

Original Poster:

202 posts

29 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
I did yeah. Pm sent

Gadgeroonie

5,316 posts

121 months

[news] 
Thursday 4th October 2012 quote quote all
one last thing to consider - if the dyno operator did not use enough load on the power run, then the car may not be able to make full boost ( ie the ramp rate was too fast )

it could be as simple at that
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