Jetstream brake upgrade
Discussion
Adrian W said:
You must know more than the man from AP then, I'll stick to keeping an open mind
My comments above I would suggest are "open minded".I've done a lot of product development work along with Pete Collen, AP Racing's main product development engineer over the years, So I speak from reasonable experience Adrian.
The main problem I might anticipate from a caliper would be flex if it wasn't rigid enough. Based on comments made, it would be one of the last areas I would expect to be the culprit in a vibration problem? I remain as I have throughout.... open minded.
Mike.
Edited by Mike Tuckwood on Thursday 12th September 10:00
andygtt said:
shaunsmith said:
Does anyone have the Jetstream front Alcon 6 pot upgrade?
It's not available yet as I asked a couple of weeks backCould the front discs & callipers be used at the rear?
Hollowpockets said:
Sorry Davie, the last few upgrades/repairs won't be finished on the car in time so not going to bother, have just had to fork out for a service and tyres for the sag too! 
Ouch!! At least my other cars only an old A6 TDi a lot cheaper than a sag to look after but nowhere near as much fun!!Next Saturday will be my last outing then need to get her down to Jetstream for some winter upgrades!!
Ok so my brakes are really starting to piss me off now. Still getting vibration.
Done so far:
-Front caliper swapped on exchange basis by Jetstream as was sticking when hot.
-New grooved discs and ds2500 pads all round
-Front pads changed to rs29's
Then at Silverstone last Sept brake judder was worse than ever. Heavy judder through steering wheel and brake pedal.
Since then
-Front discs skimmed on car.
Went on track and although judder wasn't as bad, it was still there, but not so much through the steering wheel. Late on in the day brake pedal also became a bit spongey.
-Rear discs skimmed on car
-Brake fluid renewed with Motul RBF660
Back on track again and vibration slightly better again, but still there. But my exhaust broke in half only a couple of sessions into the day so didn't get much track time.
So next plan is, calipers sent away for re-furb (could do with painting too)
Will probably get some new hubs fitted. Which will then probably mean skimming discs, again.
Is it worth changing to the solid brake lines as per M400? Big job? Wonder if my spongey brake pedal was to do with expanding lines rather than boiled fluid? Not sure what fluid was in use but don't think Jetstream would use something unsuitable.
Any other ideas??
Should probably also mention, I have no issues on normal road driving, its only when they get seriously hot on track.
Paul
Done so far:
-Front caliper swapped on exchange basis by Jetstream as was sticking when hot.
-New grooved discs and ds2500 pads all round
-Front pads changed to rs29's
Then at Silverstone last Sept brake judder was worse than ever. Heavy judder through steering wheel and brake pedal.
Since then
-Front discs skimmed on car.
Went on track and although judder wasn't as bad, it was still there, but not so much through the steering wheel. Late on in the day brake pedal also became a bit spongey.
-Rear discs skimmed on car
-Brake fluid renewed with Motul RBF660
Back on track again and vibration slightly better again, but still there. But my exhaust broke in half only a couple of sessions into the day so didn't get much track time.
So next plan is, calipers sent away for re-furb (could do with painting too)
Will probably get some new hubs fitted. Which will then probably mean skimming discs, again.
Is it worth changing to the solid brake lines as per M400? Big job? Wonder if my spongey brake pedal was to do with expanding lines rather than boiled fluid? Not sure what fluid was in use but don't think Jetstream would use something unsuitable.
Any other ideas??
Should probably also mention, I have no issues on normal road driving, its only when they get seriously hot on track.
Paul
It does seem to be a heat related problem , Metalman has had the same issues !! i think the solid disc goes slightly out of shape when it gets hot causing the vibration but it could also be hub related , i have used the Jetstream Alcon disc since Nov 12 and they have been superb with no judder and plenty of stopping power , i would recommend a hub and bearing upgrade if you are fitting new disc's !! i also changed my rear hubs when i fitted my new AP rear disc's as well .
Yes, unfortunately I'm also suffering from bad brake judder and I just can't seem to solve the problem. If I go on track with the car it's fine for a lap or two (depending on how much I've used the brakes I suppose) but as soon as I get heat into them the juddering starts, weather it's light braking or heavy until they've cooled down.
I started off with a standard car and I had this problem on my first track day so I changed the discs for new grooved discs (keeping the old ferodo pads), fitted new upgraded hubs bearings and spindles and thought this would be problem solved but it was exactly the same. So I've fitted a new set of pagid rs29 pads as I've been told the ferodo's can leave bits of pad all over the disc but it's still exactly the same.
I would like to try another set of discs on the car as I think it may be the brake bells warping rather than the actual discs, if that doesn't fix it then I'd like to change the callipers incase one of them is faulty or sticking.
It's also worth mentioning that I drive my car at a steady pace on public roads so it's hard to do a proper comparison but a couple of weeks back I had to hit the brakes quite hard at around 70mph
and although the brakes were stone cold I still had a small amount of judder.
My last solutions are going to be either drive it to dave and see what he can do (if he can't fix it then no one can!) or crush the bloody thing.
I started off with a standard car and I had this problem on my first track day so I changed the discs for new grooved discs (keeping the old ferodo pads), fitted new upgraded hubs bearings and spindles and thought this would be problem solved but it was exactly the same. So I've fitted a new set of pagid rs29 pads as I've been told the ferodo's can leave bits of pad all over the disc but it's still exactly the same.
I would like to try another set of discs on the car as I think it may be the brake bells warping rather than the actual discs, if that doesn't fix it then I'd like to change the callipers incase one of them is faulty or sticking.
It's also worth mentioning that I drive my car at a steady pace on public roads so it's hard to do a proper comparison but a couple of weeks back I had to hit the brakes quite hard at around 70mph
and although the brakes were stone cold I still had a small amount of judder. My last solutions are going to be either drive it to dave and see what he can do (if he can't fix it then no one can!) or crush the bloody thing.
worth remembering there is actually 2 versions of the original discs... one is lighter than the other... I have a theory that the lighter version of the disc actually is the one that has vibration issues???
Also worth checking the upright itself is machined properly... if its not perfectly round then heat will move things around and cause vibration.... some of the hubs were machined badly hence Tuxman mentioning changing the hubs, its not actually an upgrade because the stock wheel bearing are very good items (arguable better as they are used on the modern porsches and some BMW's).
My front discs needed replacing so I bit the bullet and bought the Jetstream discs.... wasn't hugely more than the stock discs and they are very good on track... I used different pads to what others have used and its been exactly what I wanted... I have braking to match my acceleration
Also worth checking the upright itself is machined properly... if its not perfectly round then heat will move things around and cause vibration.... some of the hubs were machined badly hence Tuxman mentioning changing the hubs, its not actually an upgrade because the stock wheel bearing are very good items (arguable better as they are used on the modern porsches and some BMW's).
My front discs needed replacing so I bit the bullet and bought the Jetstream discs.... wasn't hugely more than the stock discs and they are very good on track... I used different pads to what others have used and its been exactly what I wanted... I have braking to match my acceleration
Metalman said:
Yes, unfortunately I'm also suffering from bad brake judder and I just can't seem to solve the problem. If I go on track with the car it's fine for a lap or two (depending on how much I've used the brakes I suppose) but as soon as I get heat into them the juddering starts, weather it's light braking or heavy until they've cooled down.
I started off with a standard car and I had this problem on my first track day so I changed the discs for new grooved discs (keeping the old ferodo pads), fitted new upgraded hubs bearings and spindles and thought this would be problem solved but it was exactly the same. So I've fitted a new set of pagid rs29 pads as I've been told the ferodo's can leave bits of pad all over the disc but it's still exactly the same.
I would like to try another set of discs on the car as I think it may be the brake bells warping rather than the actual discs, if that doesn't fix it then I'd like to change the callipers incase one of them is faulty or sticking.
It's also worth mentioning that I drive my car at a steady pace on public roads so it's hard to do a proper comparison but a couple of weeks back I had to hit the brakes quite hard at around 70mph and although the brakes were stone cold I still had a small amount of judder.
My last solutions are going to be either drive it to dave and see what he can do (if he can't fix it then no one can!) or crush the bloody thing.
Assuming you can't resolve the brake issue & to save the hassle of taking it to the crusher I'll collect it for free I started off with a standard car and I had this problem on my first track day so I changed the discs for new grooved discs (keeping the old ferodo pads), fitted new upgraded hubs bearings and spindles and thought this would be problem solved but it was exactly the same. So I've fitted a new set of pagid rs29 pads as I've been told the ferodo's can leave bits of pad all over the disc but it's still exactly the same.
I would like to try another set of discs on the car as I think it may be the brake bells warping rather than the actual discs, if that doesn't fix it then I'd like to change the callipers incase one of them is faulty or sticking.
It's also worth mentioning that I drive my car at a steady pace on public roads so it's hard to do a proper comparison but a couple of weeks back I had to hit the brakes quite hard at around 70mph
and although the brakes were stone cold I still had a small amount of judder. My last solutions are going to be either drive it to dave and see what he can do (if he can't fix it then no one can!) or crush the bloody thing.
I'm sure Dave will sort it out
andygtt said:
worth remembering there is actually 2 versions of the original discs... one is lighter than the other... I have a theory that the lighter version of the disc actually is the one that has vibration issues???
Also worth checking the upright itself is machined properly... if its not perfectly round then heat will move things around and cause vibration.... some of the hubs were machined badly hence Tuxman mentioning changing the hubs, its not actually an upgrade because the stock wheel bearing are very good items (arguable better as they are used on the modern porsches and some BMW's).
My front discs needed replacing so I bit the bullet and bought the Jetstream discs.... wasn't hugely more than the stock discs and they are very good on track... I used different pads to what others have used and its been exactly what I wanted... I have braking to match my acceleration
Sorry, when I say uprated I mean the febi/bilstein hubs as they seem to be made really well rather than the standard ford units. I did actually change the n/s upright/hub/bearing for a good used one I had spare but it makes no difference. My front n/s disk does have a bit of runout but I don't think it would be enough to cause me all the problems I'm having and doesn't explain why it's really bad on track.Also worth checking the upright itself is machined properly... if its not perfectly round then heat will move things around and cause vibration.... some of the hubs were machined badly hence Tuxman mentioning changing the hubs, its not actually an upgrade because the stock wheel bearing are very good items (arguable better as they are used on the modern porsches and some BMW's).
My front discs needed replacing so I bit the bullet and bought the Jetstream discs.... wasn't hugely more than the stock discs and they are very good on track... I used different pads to what others have used and its been exactly what I wanted... I have braking to match my acceleration
This is the runout I measured on the front nearside disc, I think it's only 0.02mm and wouldn't effect things too badly but happy to be told otherwise?
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