Just joined! Engine removed! what mods (if any)?
Discussion
Chris Ho said:
Thanks for bringing that to my attention Tuxman I will check that out. Not a member of Facebook so would not have known otherwise.
Bonds, can that be done? do the valve springs, increase the boost and you can have 500BHP? Forget everything I have said so far that is tempting! Can the springs be done when the engine is in place? and likewise are the turbo's accessible with the engine in? When you talk about 'this' engine - do you mean the one in my car or these engines generally? Should not be asking these questions I haven't even got the car yet, and I have been banging on about how I am more than happy with 415bhp! What about insurance cover, does that become untenable if you modify the car this much?
So much to learn and like swankbaton says this is but the first chapter!
More boost needs more fuel - might add injectors to the list at @500bhp but not sure if the std injectors are good for 500 as std (duty cycle might be nearing the safe limit)Bonds, can that be done? do the valve springs, increase the boost and you can have 500BHP? Forget everything I have said so far that is tempting! Can the springs be done when the engine is in place? and likewise are the turbo's accessible with the engine in? When you talk about 'this' engine - do you mean the one in my car or these engines generally? Should not be asking these questions I haven't even got the car yet, and I have been banging on about how I am more than happy with 415bhp! What about insurance cover, does that become untenable if you modify the car this much?
So much to learn and like swankbaton says this is but the first chapter!
'This Engine' is 2.5 for Bondy, 3ltr for GTO-3 and 3R , Think the valve float is on both engines as you up the boost. Pretty sure a remap can see 1bar on the std injectors.
Springs done with engine in place, they are in the cylinder heads.
Turbos def removed with engine in place, fun and games on the bulkhead turbo though, not much space and it comes out the bottom of the car
I have read a lot about uprating nobles to 500/600 even 700 bhp here on this forum, and whilst I have read avidly about what people have done to achieve this, a lot of it goes over my head. Actually taking an engine apart to modify it is way beyond my capability (so far......).
But, what about the midrange. Say a stock car with improved intercooler and exhaust such as my own (and most seem to have had this done), what power could you achieve by increasing the boost whereby no other modifications are needed either in cooling, gearbox mods or clutch, and still have a fairly stable car?
It would be really interesting if one of the guru's (that would be you lot) - did a list, say 400bhp, 450bhp,500bhp 550bhp etc and so forth and wrote alongside what parts would require attention as you go up the scale. Or is this just showing my naivety?
I wish I would stop talking about more power.....
But, what about the midrange. Say a stock car with improved intercooler and exhaust such as my own (and most seem to have had this done), what power could you achieve by increasing the boost whereby no other modifications are needed either in cooling, gearbox mods or clutch, and still have a fairly stable car?
It would be really interesting if one of the guru's (that would be you lot) - did a list, say 400bhp, 450bhp,500bhp 550bhp etc and so forth and wrote alongside what parts would require attention as you go up the scale. Or is this just showing my naivety?
I wish I would stop talking about more power.....
Okay, this is all beginning to make much more sense! I am really getting some benefit from you all already! When you talk about Intercooler you mean another one for the gearbox? Hence get the tails done while the gearbox is out. Valve springs can be one in situ (not sure what that entails exactly though), and you mention Turbo's - do they need to be bigger or just improved? Its impressive this engine can give up so much power without been modified itself. Is the standard gearbox not capable of handling 500bhp? I think this is the stumbling block for me at the very least. Bespoke I think will allow me to pay additional funds to upgrade the clutch (over and above the one they would currently fit), but the gearbox is a bit more of a grey area, in so much if it needs repairs they would look to doing this to a standard spec, and trying to negotiate a price to uprate it would be less clear cut I am guessing. They are following this thread and have said are more than happy to discuss any of the points raised.
I wonder what the cost would be to have the gearbox uprated even if turns out to be okay, I will still have saved a bit not paying for its removal.
Chris.
I wonder what the cost would be to have the gearbox uprated even if turns out to be okay, I will still have saved a bit not paying for its removal.
Chris.
No std gearbox will not take 500 bhp , about 2 k to get the gearbox uprated but you have to take the engine out to sort the box hence at this stage upgrading the box and clutch is going to save you 1k plus in the future !!!! If it's making 400 plus at the moment leave it as it is just sort the box , makes upgrading to more power in the future much easier !!!
No std gearbox will not take 500 bhp , about 2 k to get the gearbox uprated but you have to take the engine out to sort the box hence at this stage upgrading the box and clutch is going to save you 1k plus in the future !!!! If it's making 400 plus at the moment leave it as it is just sort the box , makes upgrading to more power in the future much easier !!!
Hello Chris and welcome to the forum. You absolutely must decide now what your end game is and what budget you're willing to throw into achieving that. As a balanced view to the others I have to say that chasing power and torque is an incredibly expensive and time consuming way of owning a car and one that can leave you without your pride and joy for annoyingly long periods of time.
I've resisted the urge to go for huge gains simply because at 375bhp I have something I'm not wincing at every time I put my foot down in case it blows up. To maintain some reliability while the gearbox is out you must replace the clutch, no question about it, and it would certainly be sensible to uprate it while you're there. If there's even a hint of an idea that you might want more power then rebuilding the gearbox via the gearboxman with their strengthening package is certainly worth pricing up too.
My humble opinion at that stage would be to take delivery of your car and bloody well enjoy it! Do NOTHING else. Your next step in chasing power can all be done with engine & box in situ so stop there and give it some serious thought before you drop another £5k+ on turbos/valve springs/remap/box cooler & pump/etc.
Only other thing to ask Skip is whether you have the standard oil breather in place. If so, buy a ProAlloy one and have them fit it. Any car that has the standard breather at this time in its life will be a ticking time bomb.
I've resisted the urge to go for huge gains simply because at 375bhp I have something I'm not wincing at every time I put my foot down in case it blows up. To maintain some reliability while the gearbox is out you must replace the clutch, no question about it, and it would certainly be sensible to uprate it while you're there. If there's even a hint of an idea that you might want more power then rebuilding the gearbox via the gearboxman with their strengthening package is certainly worth pricing up too.
My humble opinion at that stage would be to take delivery of your car and bloody well enjoy it! Do NOTHING else. Your next step in chasing power can all be done with engine & box in situ so stop there and give it some serious thought before you drop another £5k+ on turbos/valve springs/remap/box cooler & pump/etc.
Only other thing to ask Skip is whether you have the standard oil breather in place. If so, buy a ProAlloy one and have them fit it. Any car that has the standard breather at this time in its life will be a ticking time bomb.
Hi Blue3r and thanks for bringing my feet back on the ground, I was in this haze of blur and fog wandering around the halls of power! Gosh, where have I been? not 500hp not 600hp but an appetite reaching to, well no limit. Enjoy the car, do nothing, save your money - music to my ears, and exactly where I began.
Blue3r is right - isn't he? Am I not?
Nonetheless can I just have a recap of what I have learnt so far (because I would hate to think anyone thinks I have been wasting their time).
This is where I am I think.
The car has a larger intercooler and upgraded exhaust and fuel pump already.
Looking ahead to keep any options open (and whilst the engine is out) it is worth:
Upgrading the clutch
Having tails put on the gearbox (for intercooler)
Upgrading the Gearbox
Then should I wish to increase power output to 500HP in the future (God forbid!) I need to alter the valve springs, fit an intercooler for the gearbox, increase the boost and hey presto that’s me with the wobbly knees!
In the meantime :
Fit extra gauges
HID headlight bulbs
I think there is a middle ground to be had, try and look at the preparation for the future , although I cannot see affording 2k right now for an updated gearbox (I have to pay for the car first!), otherwise the rest I think is feasible.
Not worry too much about the rest of it for now, there’s plenty of time.
Excellent - this thread has been a wonderful beginning for me and I thank you all for your attention to the questions I have been asking.
What was that about bigger turbos’?
Blue3r is right - isn't he? Am I not?
Nonetheless can I just have a recap of what I have learnt so far (because I would hate to think anyone thinks I have been wasting their time).
This is where I am I think.
The car has a larger intercooler and upgraded exhaust and fuel pump already.
Looking ahead to keep any options open (and whilst the engine is out) it is worth:
Upgrading the clutch
Having tails put on the gearbox (for intercooler)
Upgrading the Gearbox
Then should I wish to increase power output to 500HP in the future (God forbid!) I need to alter the valve springs, fit an intercooler for the gearbox, increase the boost and hey presto that’s me with the wobbly knees!
In the meantime :
Fit extra gauges
HID headlight bulbs
I think there is a middle ground to be had, try and look at the preparation for the future , although I cannot see affording 2k right now for an updated gearbox (I have to pay for the car first!), otherwise the rest I think is feasible.
Not worry too much about the rest of it for now, there’s plenty of time.
Excellent - this thread has been a wonderful beginning for me and I thank you all for your attention to the questions I have been asking.
What was that about bigger turbos’?
Im no expert Chris but im pretty sure it is the alloy tank by the intercooler (oil catch tank).Cracking looking car by the way.my thoughts would be to enjoy the car while the weather is still good and do some mods (if that is the route you want to take) when the weather turns and your not using the car.
Chris
Chris
Chris, yes you have the PA oil breather, no need to concern yourself with that. Intercooler isn't PA but isn't the standard one so either Faulks or Pace I'd guess. It's s great looking bay, I remember Slider21 posting pics before! You also have what appears to be a full collection of silicon water hoses which is great as the standard rubber hoses perish just about everywhere causing leaks and occasionally depositing brittle pieces into the system. Not good for the pump, rad or anything else.
As previously stated - do as little as is necessary for your desired level and leave it at that. If there was no need to remove the box I'd have suggested you just take it home as is and enjoy the last of the dry weather.
If you're thinking of using it all year round you'll need to continue to read these pages and digest the threads around floor sealing and rust treatments as these flaws can sometimes bite you when you're not prepared. Ask Bespoke about these as quite probably they've had attention already.
Rob
As previously stated - do as little as is necessary for your desired level and leave it at that. If there was no need to remove the box I'd have suggested you just take it home as is and enjoy the last of the dry weather.
If you're thinking of using it all year round you'll need to continue to read these pages and digest the threads around floor sealing and rust treatments as these flaws can sometimes bite you when you're not prepared. Ask Bespoke about these as quite probably they've had attention already.
Rob
Afternoon,
A recap then:
You have the upgraded intercooler and hardpipe kit, breather, and header tank.
1/ You've got the standard 3/3r gearshift linkage (because the cables approach from the rear).
For me that was something I had to change to an M400-ish setup. I say 'ish' as I made some of the bits myself and grabbed other bits with the help of people on here.
I think there is a kit available and it's going to save a lot of scraped knuckles if it's done while engine out. Not cheap, but nice to have the confidence in which gear you've selected!
2/ Inspect and paint rear chassis as required. Mine had a 1 inch square bit with surface rust. Clean up and a dab of paint and it's not going to be a problem in future.
3/ put a standard exhaust on it. I'm happy to take away your performance one and dispose of it!
okay, ignore 3.
A recap then:
You have the upgraded intercooler and hardpipe kit, breather, and header tank.
1/ You've got the standard 3/3r gearshift linkage (because the cables approach from the rear).
For me that was something I had to change to an M400-ish setup. I say 'ish' as I made some of the bits myself and grabbed other bits with the help of people on here.
I think there is a kit available and it's going to save a lot of scraped knuckles if it's done while engine out. Not cheap, but nice to have the confidence in which gear you've selected!
2/ Inspect and paint rear chassis as required. Mine had a 1 inch square bit with surface rust. Clean up and a dab of paint and it's not going to be a problem in future.
3/ put a standard exhaust on it. I'm happy to take away your performance one and dispose of it!
okay, ignore 3.
Thanks everyone, of course I can take no credit for how it looks, all done by other hard working owners. I was hoping that with all these bright colours they would kind of shine through the dirt, save me having to clean it! I note a lot of engine bays always look very clean, but that's down to hard graft is it?
Two of you have mentioned the floor and it is one area that remains something of a misnomer to me (I guess its hard taking photos underneath), not really having any idea what's going on. I can see the floor is flat but are these simply sheets of metal all the way down screwed to the chassis? I have read quite a bit on the forum about water getting trapped etc and the floor being re-sealed. Are there instances of the chassis rusting through entirely? I am a bit unsure if Bespoke will be going anywhere near these as part of doing the gearbox/clutch (but hopefully will have checked it before selling). I will use the car in the wet occasionally I am sure, but generally I am hoping to go out on dry days only, but all year round (so that'll be all of 7 days then).
The gear linkage too is a great heads up and I will ask about this for sure, just how much of an improvement is the modified cable?
Thanks again everyone, really appreciate it, I am getting so many leads already and I have the time/opportunity to consider them all while it is in Bespokes good hands.
Chris.
PS Hi green3r - I shall be taking everything you say with a pinch of salt from now on!
Two of you have mentioned the floor and it is one area that remains something of a misnomer to me (I guess its hard taking photos underneath), not really having any idea what's going on. I can see the floor is flat but are these simply sheets of metal all the way down screwed to the chassis? I have read quite a bit on the forum about water getting trapped etc and the floor being re-sealed. Are there instances of the chassis rusting through entirely? I am a bit unsure if Bespoke will be going anywhere near these as part of doing the gearbox/clutch (but hopefully will have checked it before selling). I will use the car in the wet occasionally I am sure, but generally I am hoping to go out on dry days only, but all year round (so that'll be all of 7 days then).
The gear linkage too is a great heads up and I will ask about this for sure, just how much of an improvement is the modified cable?
Thanks again everyone, really appreciate it, I am getting so many leads already and I have the time/opportunity to consider them all while it is in Bespokes good hands.
Chris.
PS Hi green3r - I shall be taking everything you say with a pinch of salt from now on!
looking at the pics previous owners have done a few of the nice mods already, you have hard pipe kit, upgraded header tank, oil breather, air filters moved to bulkhead... you also have very nice aftermarket wheels and expensive wing end plates.... they have spent quite a lot of money on the car.
mgbond said:
andygtt said:
welcome to the forum 
....if your happy with the power and just want to future proof it for mild mods later then getting oil cooling adapters put into the box now while its apart will be cheap and will mean you can fit coolers later if needed (a must over 500bhp imo)... upgrading the clutch would be a good idea as stock is only reliable to about your current power (can hold more but not recommended)... Id leave the cam timing, valve springs (done with cam timing), injectors etc till later as they will require an expensive remap.....
Apart from the timing that's what I said ....if your happy with the power and just want to future proof it for mild mods later then getting oil cooling adapters put into the box now while its apart will be cheap and will mean you can fit coolers later if needed (a must over 500bhp imo)... upgrading the clutch would be a good idea as stock is only reliable to about your current power (can hold more but not recommended)... Id leave the cam timing, valve springs (done with cam timing), injectors etc till later as they will require an expensive remap.....
. However Andy, why would u not do the valve springs? My understanding is that at about 1bar you can get valve float and all this engine would need for a bit more power later (no more than 500) is to up boost and they are not an expensive mod.
Also I agree with post on getting Turbos serviced.
Bonds
P.S. All my knowledge has just come from being on here for ages and I'm just spouting what other people have done
To get 500bhp this car will need £2-3k spending on it (turbos, injectors, fuel pump, mapping etc etc).
At 415bhp its already well modified awesome bit of kit IMO.
Hi Andygtt, It has had a lot of love and attention from what I can gather. It also has the benefit of being serviced every year by Kerridges, Bespoke or Mole Valley. Also it has some Nitron dampers with Eibach Springs (don't know much about that), Dry Sump and the tunnel cooling mod done. The power was uprated at Noble Motorsport in 2011. So all in all I am very fortunate. I was torn about buying the car because it had done 45,000 miles and there was a car at Kerridges but it had only done 10,000 miles (same age). Indeed Bespoke had a 2006 example with 19,0000 miles too. The price difference between the one I chose and the other 2 was about £4,000. As a layman I was drawn to low mileage and/or newer plate but speaking with Bespoke and learning what I had from the forum that mods are okay (desirable even), and cost a great deal when you have to start from scratch, made me choose this one (but at the time it was a difficult choice).
I do hope I have done the right thing!?!
Chris
I do hope I have done the right thing!?!
Chris
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