Considering an M12
Discussion
Afternoon Gents.
I am Hankering after a new car. I've always really liked both the M12 and T350c. However, I just cannot seem to choose between the 2 at the moment.
The car will be used regularly and do about 10,000 miles per year. How do they fair (both cars would be appreciated) with this sort of mileage? I'm sure I read about a couple of M12s on here with 70k on the clock. Were there any issues along the way?
Also with regards to spec. Is are the 3 and 3R really worth the premium over an early M12. What should I be looking for to have been changed on an earlier one if I did go for one. I already know about the fan change.
Gearboxes - I have read some saying the 5 speed is "stronger" is there a weakness here I should look out for?
As a sense of occasion would an earlier M12 be better due to the audable please (air intakes just behind the seats) or does it become more of an annoyance and your better off with the more sound proof'd later cars?
Thanks in advance folks.
I am Hankering after a new car. I've always really liked both the M12 and T350c. However, I just cannot seem to choose between the 2 at the moment.
The car will be used regularly and do about 10,000 miles per year. How do they fair (both cars would be appreciated) with this sort of mileage? I'm sure I read about a couple of M12s on here with 70k on the clock. Were there any issues along the way?
Also with regards to spec. Is are the 3 and 3R really worth the premium over an early M12. What should I be looking for to have been changed on an earlier one if I did go for one. I already know about the fan change.
Gearboxes - I have read some saying the 5 speed is "stronger" is there a weakness here I should look out for?
As a sense of occasion would an earlier M12 be better due to the audable please (air intakes just behind the seats) or does it become more of an annoyance and your better off with the more sound proof'd later cars?
Thanks in advance folks.
Just a quick reply;
I beleive it's the difs that are weak in the 5 speed, so a 6 speed/LSD is prefered.In general 3Rs will be 6 speed.
The gearshift on the 6 isn't great but can be improved with a different lever assy and lots of messing about. Not sure if there are options for the 5 speed.
Filters can be moved to the bulkhead on any model very easily.
The 3R has more soundproofing so that dulls the noise. I find I don't get enough noise!
It also comes with leather seats.
I prefer the 3R headlights, but there's not that much to choose between them.
10k miles a year shouldn't be an issue. Use good oil and change it every 6k (I change every 3).
I beleive it's the difs that are weak in the 5 speed, so a 6 speed/LSD is prefered.In general 3Rs will be 6 speed.
The gearshift on the 6 isn't great but can be improved with a different lever assy and lots of messing about. Not sure if there are options for the 5 speed.
Filters can be moved to the bulkhead on any model very easily.
The 3R has more soundproofing so that dulls the noise. I find I don't get enough noise!
It also comes with leather seats.
I prefer the 3R headlights, but there's not that much to choose between them.
10k miles a year shouldn't be an issue. Use good oil and change it every 6k (I change every 3).
also worth mentioning the 5 speed with an LSD is fine... its the open diffs that were marginal and only the 5 speed had an open diff... I suspect most of the 5 speeders have LSD's now as it was false economy to fit a new open diff.
BTW the LSD's are all quaife.
The early nobles were slightly lighter as had less sound deadening as well as an open diff, 5 speed, open front lights etc etc... once you fit the LSD etc the difference reduced.
The weight of the car will mostly be dictated by the number of modifications it has, for example the upgraded intercooler adds weight, some exhausts are a lot heavier than standard etc etc... these are actually good things as the stock items were simply not that effective, but often beefing things up adds weight.
Now I used to think the different weight of cars made little difference, however I recently reduced my car over 50kgs in one hit and I could really feel the difference on track.... but I wouldn't get too hung up on the difference in most cars for sale.
The 3L has had more development and thus has been taken a lot further power wise than the 2.5L... make no mistake MOST people start modifying their noble quite soon after sale as they are so tuneable.
Simple fact is that Noble developed the car while it was in production, the later the car, the better developed it was lol.
If I was looking for a stockfish car, Id want to make sure it had an LSD, a track day sump (larger capacity which prevents oil starvation)... everything else would be personal choice
I have a close friend with a T350... having driven it I found it a fanatic car to drive, a real 'occasion'... it wasn't as quick as the Noble or handle as well, it had quite edgy handling (which I really liked) but sounded fantastic and felt very agile...
I wouldn't swop my noble for one, but it suits my friend perfectly (much better for him than a noble)... the standard noble interior is a real let down (very comfortable though) and again here the T350 whoops the noble.
Best to go visit both, preferably at a dealer that has both in (Bespoke or Kerridges?).
BTW the LSD's are all quaife.
The early nobles were slightly lighter as had less sound deadening as well as an open diff, 5 speed, open front lights etc etc... once you fit the LSD etc the difference reduced.
The weight of the car will mostly be dictated by the number of modifications it has, for example the upgraded intercooler adds weight, some exhausts are a lot heavier than standard etc etc... these are actually good things as the stock items were simply not that effective, but often beefing things up adds weight.
Now I used to think the different weight of cars made little difference, however I recently reduced my car over 50kgs in one hit and I could really feel the difference on track.... but I wouldn't get too hung up on the difference in most cars for sale.
The 3L has had more development and thus has been taken a lot further power wise than the 2.5L... make no mistake MOST people start modifying their noble quite soon after sale as they are so tuneable.
Simple fact is that Noble developed the car while it was in production, the later the car, the better developed it was lol.
If I was looking for a stockfish car, Id want to make sure it had an LSD, a track day sump (larger capacity which prevents oil starvation)... everything else would be personal choice
I have a close friend with a T350... having driven it I found it a fanatic car to drive, a real 'occasion'... it wasn't as quick as the Noble or handle as well, it had quite edgy handling (which I really liked) but sounded fantastic and felt very agile...
I wouldn't swop my noble for one, but it suits my friend perfectly (much better for him than a noble)... the standard noble interior is a real let down (very comfortable though) and again here the T350 whoops the noble.
Best to go visit both, preferably at a dealer that has both in (Bespoke or Kerridges?).
Thank you very much for your input chaps. It would indeed be ideal to see the two cars at the same dealer, will need to take a couple of days off work to do it though as I am North of the border and don't fancy 7 /8 hours of driving in one day anymore.
I had seen that most 5 speeds tended to get the LSD fitted, but had not realised that it was the diff that was the main issue alone so thank you for that. Weight is not a huge concern of mine to be honest as the car will be doing a fair amount of road driving so adding some weight to gain reliability of parts seems a fair trade off. Though it would see track use once or twice a month in the summer.
Having looked at many interior photos of both the T350 and Noble it is clear that the noble (for me) really does need the leather seats, which most seem to have anyway. And it does look reasonably, but the T350 just looks other-worldly in comparison. This is a big point for the TVR as it will be sat in most days.
The TVR also seems to be winning on what I would call "pure sound" but the boy racer in me still loves the sound of turbo spool and the "chirrup" of a dump valve. That alone gets addictive.
I really am Torn here. Especially as I always promised myself a TVR before I was 30. Still got 5 years left, but...if I love the Noble, the TVR would probably never materialise...but likewise if I buy a TVR now the Noble would be unlikely to be bought later down the line either.
Decisions decisions....
I had seen that most 5 speeds tended to get the LSD fitted, but had not realised that it was the diff that was the main issue alone so thank you for that. Weight is not a huge concern of mine to be honest as the car will be doing a fair amount of road driving so adding some weight to gain reliability of parts seems a fair trade off. Though it would see track use once or twice a month in the summer.
Having looked at many interior photos of both the T350 and Noble it is clear that the noble (for me) really does need the leather seats, which most seem to have anyway. And it does look reasonably, but the T350 just looks other-worldly in comparison. This is a big point for the TVR as it will be sat in most days.
The TVR also seems to be winning on what I would call "pure sound" but the boy racer in me still loves the sound of turbo spool and the "chirrup" of a dump valve. That alone gets addictive.
I really am Torn here. Especially as I always promised myself a TVR before I was 30. Still got 5 years left, but...if I love the Noble, the TVR would probably never materialise...but likewise if I buy a TVR now the Noble would be unlikely to be bought later down the line either.
Decisions decisions....
Emubiker said:
Having looked at many interior photos of both the T350 and Noble it is clear that the noble (for me) really does need the leather seats.....
It's personel choice but I much prefer the Alcantara seats than the leather. I think leather once used a bit just looks old. As for the noise, yes it's no V8 sound but the air filters moved forward is such a great sound. I love scaring people with it as they walk along the street. Lol
I test drove a T350 but went for the Noble and that was 9 years ago.
Bondy
I Agree with Bondy - I love my Alcantara seats. The leather seems (in my opinion) is trying to make the noble more than it is.
I have a GTO3 and I moved my filters to the Bulkhead from the intercooler box (1/2 hr job) and it makes any 3/3r sound more like the 2.5 which all the press loved.
Steve
I have a GTO3 and I moved my filters to the Bulkhead from the intercooler box (1/2 hr job) and it makes any 3/3r sound more like the 2.5 which all the press loved.
Steve
I personally think the alcantara looks very dated when a little older where as leather is timeless,I have just
Purchased a gto3 in blue with cream leather -this colour combo wouldn't be my first choice as I'm not a lover of coloured leather but this combo is stunning and really looks the dogs in the flesh.i think some of the multi coloured leathers are awful.
I have had lots of performance cars and have only driven mine for 3-4 hours home and i must admit is very addictive and involving to drive.......great fun at the end of the day it's personal preference .
Come back summer.
Purchased a gto3 in blue with cream leather -this colour combo wouldn't be my first choice as I'm not a lover of coloured leather but this combo is stunning and really looks the dogs in the flesh.i think some of the multi coloured leathers are awful.
I have had lots of performance cars and have only driven mine for 3-4 hours home and i must admit is very addictive and involving to drive.......great fun at the end of the day it's personal preference .
Come back summer.
I test drove a T350 but I am 6 ft 4 and the T350 was very tight for space it drove well and a fabulous soundtrack but to cramped.
Then test dove a GTO that would be annoying as an everyday drive with the air filters behind your head .I now have a GTO 3 and it's so easy to drive compared to the tvr .
Then test dove a GTO that would be annoying as an everyday drive with the air filters behind your head .I now have a GTO 3 and it's so easy to drive compared to the tvr .
Height shouldn't be an issue for me (I'm Jocky sized) so long as the seat move forward enough. I'll still have a weekend toy for quick b-road blasts too. I think the TVR looks more Daily driver type, but reliability issues would still be at the back of my mind I think. Having said that, I have a friend who uses a Tuscan most days and he doesn't seem to get much agro from it.
I work 6 days a week, I don't have time for a "weekend car". I spend most of my time either at work or getting to and from work. No point in me having a "banger" and a nice car as the nice car would hardly get used. Plus I already have 2 bikes and another toy.
Why have a nice car and not use it. Plus, that would be commuting in style :-D
Why have a nice car and not use it. Plus, that would be commuting in style :-D
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