Current Values

Author
Discussion

Rob_W

1,070 posts

213 months

Friday 28th August 2015
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Jarcy said:
I still struggle to understand why there is such a premium for M400s.
For the £15k-£20k difference you could spec up a 3R beyond M400 performance.
Also I don't understand why we haven't seen a nicely modified 3R going for in excess of £40k...
Because the £10-20k spent on the 3R will be largely lost on resale whereas the M400 will still attract the premium? Which answers the second point...you just don't get that much back for mods, a bit of a premium and a just an easier, quicker sale I would have thought.

AMG Merc

11,954 posts

252 months

Friday 28th August 2015
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Rob_W said:
Because the £10-20k spent on the 3R will be largely lost on resale whereas the M400 will still attract the premium? Which answers the second point...you just don't get that much back for mods, a bit of a premium and a just an easier, quicker sale I would have thought.
Agreed Rob. I got to learn a lot during my search for the TR in the classic/collectors market so looked at buying modified versus stock motors. A stock M400 will be worth a lot more than a modified 3R in the future. Collectors want originality I won't even put a sports zorst on the the TR or the Pork.

I know, I know they are for driving not making loot on...

olliete

403 posts

110 months

Friday 28th August 2015
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Completely understand that, but when the market is aware that the cooling system, ECU etc. that came with stock Noble's was under-engineered, surely the market will want these mods and price appropriately for them if these cars do go on to appreciate in future?

On the face of it, surely a modified M12 (with the necessary mods), will be worth more to a collector than a completely stock one in 10 years time with the same mileage. Maybe the key word here is mileage, and actually if we're talking 5k miles, a stock would be worth more!!

Thinking too deep for a Friday...off to pub.




AMG Merc

11,954 posts

252 months

Friday 28th August 2015
quotequote all
olliete said:
Completely understand that, but when the market is aware that the cooling system, ECU etc. that came with stock Noble's was under-engineered, surely the market will want these mods and price appropriately for them if these cars do go on to appreciate in future?

On the face of it, surely a modified M12 (with the necessary mods), will be worth more to a collector than a completely stock one in 10 years time with the same mileage. Maybe the key word here is mileage, and actually if we're talking 5k miles, a stock would be worth more!!

Thinking too deep for a Friday...off to pub.
I think the keyword will be "essential mods", as you mention, aiding the car's reliability (and not mods that make it go faster, sound louder or look brighter against the sunset biggrin

Off for a cold one drink also.

sundance002

1,304 posts

163 months

Sunday 30th August 2015
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The big Q then is what's essential?
IMO The wire loom car and engine loom is crap, poor quality wire.
The bulk fuse possision terrible to much heat.
Battery location hard to charge, fuel lines bad quality,
Oil line poor quality, coolant pipes poor,
The problem is the real list is massive, these cars new where costed low for a reason,
They used low quality components in a great design and chassis.
I bought the Noble M400 for its design, superb chassis, so again IMO,
All I have done is made it, what it should of been, a hyper car that will beat pretty much anything at still what is classed as a low cost, as to buy a car of this spec from a production line would cost more than 150k.
So again IMO, what makes these cars so good is there is no hard and fast rule it's personal,
There has been no real bar set yet, for a true upgraded monster to test the desirability of one of those cars,
If ever either I, or Andy, or Simon decide to sell, that will be the true test.
There is a man or woman for everything,
It's how good you are at finding them

And so as not to upset the other 600 monsters, ie Kev, Daddy, Shaun,

These are the cars that will test the theory


Edited by sundance002 on Sunday 30th August 11:07

2.5bluenob

1,620 posts

175 months

Saturday 5th September 2015
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sundance002 said:
The big Q then is what's essential?
IMO The wire loom car and engine loom is crap, poor quality wire.
The bulk fuse possision terrible to much heat.
Battery location hard to charge, fuel lines bad quality,
Oil line poor quality, coolant pipes poor,
The problem is the real list is massive, these cars new where costed low for a reason,
They used low quality components in a great design and chassis.
I bought the Noble M400 for its design, superb chassis, so again IMO,
All I have done is made it, what it should of been, a hyper car that will beat pretty much anything at still what is classed as a low cost, as to buy a car of this spec from a production line would cost more than 150k.
So again IMO, what makes these cars so good is there is no hard and fast rule it's personal,
There has been no real bar set yet, for a true upgraded monster to test the desirability of one of those cars,
If ever either I, or Andy, or Simon decide to sell, that will be the true test.
There is a man or woman for everything,
It's how good you are at finding them

And so as not to upset the other 600 monsters, ie Kev, Daddy, Shaun,

These are the cars that will test the theory


Edited by sundance002 on Sunday 30th August 11:07
Think you forgot at least a couple more 600 HP Monsters Craig wink

andygtt

8,344 posts

263 months

Saturday 5th September 2015
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Values can go as high as they like I don't ever intend to sell... just too much of my own time invested in the car getting it how I want.

There is no doubt that they are slowly appreciating now which is fantastic for the marque.

M400DPC

256 posts

195 months

Thursday 10th September 2015
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I realise seeking opinion on future values is purely academic and highly unlikely to result unbiased predictions on a noble forum but I've been mildly disappointed at the rate these cars have appreciated over the last 5-6 years especially when you look at the rate TVRs (sagaris in particular) have been going up. Perhaps it is to do with how much the likes of the sag depreciated initially before they hit an upward trajectory again. I bought my m400 for 35k over 5 years ago and now its worth what,45k to the right buyer? At the same time could've bought a sag for £35k and now they're marching past £60k. Perhaps comparing apples with oranges. Like others have said its not crucial as we buy these cars to be driven but the added element of enjoyment for continued future ownership is watching a climb in prices. Interested to hear where people see m400s (as a bench mark for the other variants) will priced in 12 months time and what your rationale is?

olliete

403 posts

110 months

Thursday 10th September 2015
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Personal view is that this is a market and people speculate, there is no guarantee that the Sagaris you buy today will be worth more in a years time.

However, when that speculation is less risky people are more willing to pay more, that ripple is felt throughout the market and someone buys a Sag not because it is worth £60k, but because they think they can enjoy the car and sell it for £65k in two years time (for example). After all, if someone thought they'd be losing money on a Sagaris, i seriously doubt they'd be selling at £60k+ from Str8Six

Question is, why do they think that about a Sag and not a Noble? To me, it is because the Noble brand is less established and doesn't have the broader appeal that TVR does. Open to debate and would be good to hear other peoples views, but to clarify my point:

Can you name a manufacturer as recent as Noble with cars that have begun to appreciate sub £70k - no doubt the Noble will gradually reposition in time when the market gets sick of paying £75k for a Sag, but it takes time for investors to see value (i.e. underpriced) and not buy simply because they think they can sell for more (i.e. future growth)

arabian

503 posts

174 months

Friday 11th September 2015
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M400DPC said:
I realise seeking opinion on future values is purely academic and highly unlikely to result unbiased predictions on a noble forum but I've been mildly disappointed at the rate these cars have appreciated over the last 5-6 years especially when you look at the rate TVRs (sagaris in particular) have been going up. Perhaps it is to do with how much the likes of the sag depreciated initially before they hit an upward trajectory again. I bought my m400 for 35k over 5 years ago and now its worth what,45k to the right buyer? At the same time could've bought a sag for £35k and now they're marching past £60k. Perhaps comparing apples with oranges. Like others have said its not crucial as we buy these cars to be driven but the added element of enjoyment for continued future ownership is watching a climb in prices. Interested to hear where people see m400s (as a bench mark for the other variants) will priced in 12 months time and what your rationale is?
OK, here's a contentious comment to start the weekend....

I think part of the reason why Noble values havent increased as much as they should have done (on all models) is because too many people on this forum have bashed people trying to ask higher sale prices, and have also been quite negative on what new purchasers should/should not accept on a car.

I know 99.9% of the comments made are aiming to help the person asking the question and/or seeking advice, and the help and advice offered on this forum is second to none, however, you cant bash values one minute and then wonder why they dont increase.

over the past 1-2 years there have been some really positive articles in the motoring magazines waxing lyrical about the handling, the value for money offered by a Noble, how they will leave a 911 in the shade, recently included in Car magazine's top 25 british cars you have to drive etc etc. I met Dickie Meaden a while back and he was very positive about Nobles. As owners this is nothing new to any of us, so ultimately we are responsible for not pushing values because we are not asking the higher prices and supporting those that do.

ive been thinking about selling my 2.5 but as i have been told by several people "you wont be able to find a car like a Noble with the same handling, power, and fun factor without spending £50-60,000", and they are right so i'm keeping it.

If i am keepimg mine, Andy is keeping his, that should help the demand/supply ratio and help push values up !

macky17

2,210 posts

188 months

Friday 11th September 2015
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arabian said:
OK, here's a contentious comment to start the weekend....

I think part of the reason why Noble values havent increased as much as they should have done (on all models) is because too many people on this forum have bashed people trying to ask higher sale prices, and have also been quite negative on what new purchasers should/should not accept on a car.

I know 99.9% of the comments made are aiming to help the person asking the question and/or seeking advice, and the help and advice offered on this forum is second to none, however, you cant bash values one minute and then wonder why they dont increase.

over the past 1-2 years there have been some really positive articles in the motoring magazines waxing lyrical about the handling, the value for money offered by a Noble, how they will leave a 911 in the shade, recently included in Car magazine's top 25 british cars you have to drive etc etc. I met Dickie Meaden a while back and he was very positive about Nobles. As owners this is nothing new to any of us, so ultimately we are responsible for not pushing values because we are not asking the higher prices and supporting those that do.

ive been thinking about selling my 2.5 but as i have been told by several people "you wont be able to find a car like a Noble with the same handling, power, and fun factor without spending £50-60,000", and they are right so i'm keeping it.

If i am keepimg mine, Andy is keeping his, that should help the demand/supply ratio and help push values up !
I think there is some truth to this. The recent Evo buyer's guide was the result of several emails I sent the magazine over the course of a year - ok perhaps it would have happened anyway but I'm fairly sure I planted a seed. My intention was to further brand awareness and boost values. It barely registered a ripple on here...

We need to organise some meets which are not tucked away on a race track but a little more public. A squadron of Nobs passing along The Strand perhaps or rolling up at Duxford. I'm game...

olliete

403 posts

110 months

Friday 11th September 2015
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Yep - me too, squadron of Nobs on Sloane Street would be quite a sight!

Spindoctor

781 posts

199 months

Friday 11th September 2015
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arabian said:
ultimately we are responsible for not pushing values because we are not asking the higher prices and supporting those that do.
Its up to buyers as much as sellers to determine a price, but you may be right that if enough owners take a cartel stance and refuse to sell, say, well-sorted 3Rs for less than 40k that might have an effect. Trouble is, not all owners are on here and it only takes one. I've always been told that Sag prices have been pushed up partly because of overseas buyers. Hasn't happened (yet) with Nobles afaik.

S B C

276 posts

188 months

Friday 11th September 2015
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It will be interesting to see what the Wheeler Dealers car sells for when the programme airs in the next few weeks.
They have a habit of selling cars for much less than they have invested ( when labour costs are included) so let's hope they hold out for a decent price on this one.
Otherwise, sellers will be confronted with buyers saying ' it's not worth that - I saw what the WD one went for'!

S B C

276 posts

188 months

Friday 11th September 2015
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It will be interesting to see what the Wheeler Dealers car sells for when the programme airs in the next few weeks.
They have a habit of selling cars for much less than they have invested ( when labour costs are included) so let's hope they hold out for a decent price on this one.
Otherwise, sellers will be confronted with buyers saying ' it's not worth that - I saw what the WD one went for'!

sjc

13,880 posts

269 months

Saturday 12th September 2015
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Can't see a Sagaris as a valid comparison, it was a car that dropped through the floor when TVR went under, the brand had a massive cult following and it got pushed along with the classic car boom. I've no doubt that Sagaris values will drop a bit when the new reborn TVR comes out allegedly next year, especially if it is at the 65-75K level.
I've had my M400 approaching 9 years, and it's still worth about the same as I bought it for, if someone would have suggested that 9 years ago I would have been overjoyed.Slowly but surely the value of these cars is creeping up, and I'm happy with that , but it's not why I own it.
Personally, I don't think it has anything at all to do with comments on here or magazines that they haven't rocketed to 60-70 grand, it's like accusing Clarkson of killing Rover. Probably lack of brand awareness ( ask a non car fan what a TVR is, they might have a clue, Noble? They've never heard of it).Further I've been to enough car meets/ run outs where the lack of knowledge about the brand from car "enthusiasts" has been astonishing.
Still the best car I've had in all the important areas by a country mile .

bernhund

3,767 posts

192 months

Saturday 12th September 2015
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sjc said:
Can't see a Sagaris as a valid comparison, it was a car that dropped through the floor when TVR went under, the brand had a massive cult following and it got pushed along with the classic car boom. I've no doubt that Sagaris values will drop a bit when the new reborn TVR comes out allegedly next year, especially if it is at the 65-75K level.
I've had my M400 approaching 9 years, and it's still worth about the same as I bought it for, if someone would have suggested that 9 years ago I would have been overjoyed.Slowly but surely the value of these cars is creeping up, and I'm happy with that , but it's not why I own it.
Personally, I don't think it has anything at all to do with comments on here or magazines that they haven't rocketed to 60-70 grand, it's like accusing Clarkson of killing Rover. Probably lack of brand awareness ( ask a non car fan what a TVR is, they might have a clue, Noble? They've never heard of it).Further I've been to enough car meets/ run outs where the lack of knowledge about the brand from car "enthusiasts" has been astonishing.
Still the best car I've had in all the important areas by a country mile .
Agreed. I'm amazed at how few people have even heard of Noble. Those who have, remember it as the 'giant slayer' and know very little else except it's either 'unreliable' or 'a Mondeo'. To be honest, though I think the Ford engine has proven an excellent and reliable choice, in some ways it has worked against the marque because of this sketchy link to the Mondeo. I've even read articles where people think the new GT40 should never cost as much as a Lambo, Ferrari or other exotics, just because of the blue badge!
But, as mentioned here, I'm chuffed about the values. How many cars depreciate and bounce back to purchase price or above when just 10-12 years old?

simonx50

818 posts

159 months

Saturday 12th September 2015
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The answer to that question is if your selling price high as there aren't that many around let alone for sale.

Midlifecrisis71

2,870 posts

274 months

Saturday 12th September 2015
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oi - please wait until ive bought one before you re-price your cars !!

In my view the price boom only really affected the 911, and thats due to the volume of cars and the number of people who know the name and brand. Also the fact all the water cooled engines are crap. You can buy a 911 997 gen 1 carrera for £20k, but an air cooled mid eighties wale tail can now be £100k

The Porsche boom bubble will pop

All other marques have recovered steadily following the 2008-2015 recession and the fact that "toy cars" are the first thing to be liquidated when you need cash for the mortgage. Less disposable income = lower prices.

Just look at Scotland, higher pay and cheaper housing = all the sports cars are in Scotland. I recently sold my stage 1 EVO and all the calls were from Scotland. It went to Aberdeen and was sold in 24 hours.

In summary prices are stable, the likes of bespoke & Mole Valley are trying to push them up with 36k 3R's but in reality they are always worth what someone will pay for them.
In my view, if the price stays stable, its a good thing for long term ownership - these cars need TLC and the more you pay the less you tinker with spanners.

BTW anyone looking to sell ?

Fett

207 posts

175 months

Saturday 12th September 2015
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Midlifecrisis71 said:
oi - please wait until ive bought one before you re-price your cars !!

In my view the price boom only really affected the 911, and thats due to the volume of cars and the number of people who know the name and brand. Also the fact all the water cooled engines are crap. You can buy a 911 997 gen 1 carrera for £20k, but an air cooled mid eighties wale tail can now be £100k

The Porsche boom bubble will pop

All other marques have recovered steadily following the 2008-2015 recession and the fact that "toy cars" are the first thing to be liquidated when you need cash for the mortgage. Less disposable income = lower prices.

Just look at Scotland, higher pay and cheaper housing = all the sports cars are in Scotland. I recently sold my stage 1 EVO and all the calls were from Scotland. It went to Aberdeen and was sold in 24 hours.

In summary prices are stable, the likes of bespoke & Mole Valley are trying to push them up with 36k 3R's but in reality they are always worth what someone will pay for them.
In my view, if the price stays stable, its a good thing for long term ownership - these cars need TLC and the more you pay the less you tinker with spanners.

BTW anyone looking to sell ?
Yep, but not for less than 40K biggrin