Springs and shocks?
Discussion
Simon, you're dead right and a dark art, we spend mind numbing hours with our race car trying to find the right balance, and almost always come back to the original settings that the lads set the car up too at the start of the day!!
I need to spend more time setting the Noble up, on track it's a dream, on the road is where it feels somewhat bouncy.
Interesting what Andy says about the quality of spring, this might be the next step.
I need to spend more time setting the Noble up, on track it's a dream, on the road is where it feels somewhat bouncy.
Interesting what Andy says about the quality of spring, this might be the next step.
AMG Merc said:
Many thanks for all the comments guys. Now I am confused 
I'm going to have a chat with Jetsream. Also, can anyone recommend Bespoke for suspension set up?
Lastly, no one answered my question asking about whether it's prudent to change all four springs versus just two?
If we go for a wet set-up from a dry set-up, it would be all four. For me, if I was changing them, I would go for all four. HTH!!! I'm going to have a chat with Jetsream. Also, can anyone recommend Bespoke for suspension set up?
Lastly, no one answered my question asking about whether it's prudent to change all four springs versus just two?
I went from a Lotus Elise to a M12 GTO 3R which was a low millage, well maintained, hardly ever driven car with a leaking right front shock.
Please factor old tyres into all of the comments.
Stock M12 suspension on the car just would not take a set, comparing to the Elise.
Not a problem, leaking shock, makes sense.
Bought a "good used" M400 shock/spring package. Ride was acceptable.
At the track and/or even spirited driving, the car would not take a set. Never knew if the front or the back was going to give up first, but the car did not like to be rushed. Wish I had access to a shock dyno, I suspect time has not kind to them.
Currently running Simon's Protech street setup. Bought them because he has an enviable driving resume (way better than mine), so his setup would help me figure out if it was my driving or the car.
Love the adjust-ability!
Finally have a car that takes a set! Still prefer the Lotus's non-power-steering feel, but at least I didn’t think the car was actively trying to kill me.
Thank You Tuxman!
Have driven this setup this summer and..
Always felt that the car was 95% there. The car (finally) points in with confidence, but corner exit was not what I thought it could be. (I suspect that part of this is my Lotus never had the violent acceleration capability to upset the chassis like the Noble does.)
After reading this thread, I am starting to think...
1) Simon seems to be unusually genital on corner exit (I must learn this) so he can take advantage of lower spring rates.
2) With the street setup, the preference was more biased towards comfort. (again, I didn't find the M400 setup uncomfortable) I should have probably stared with the track setup, but its primarily a street car.
So after reading this thread (looking for justification to say "I think Simon's setup, as good as it is, could be better tuned to my driving style"), I am going to try kicking the rear springs up from the 600 lbs/in to the eibach 700 lbs/in.
Doing this because my butt dyno says that: going around a constant radius traffic circle, at mostly constant speeds, the rear end just seems to slowly keep rolling over to the outside and then loses grip. My hope is that by increasing the rear spring rate, this will help slow the weight transfer and keep rear slow roll from happening.
Hoping this will not cause the rear end to just slide in a nice flat spin.
Guess the fun in in finding out.
Please factor old tyres into all of the comments.
Stock M12 suspension on the car just would not take a set, comparing to the Elise.
Not a problem, leaking shock, makes sense.
Bought a "good used" M400 shock/spring package. Ride was acceptable.
At the track and/or even spirited driving, the car would not take a set. Never knew if the front or the back was going to give up first, but the car did not like to be rushed. Wish I had access to a shock dyno, I suspect time has not kind to them.
Currently running Simon's Protech street setup. Bought them because he has an enviable driving resume (way better than mine), so his setup would help me figure out if it was my driving or the car.
Love the adjust-ability!
Finally have a car that takes a set! Still prefer the Lotus's non-power-steering feel, but at least I didn’t think the car was actively trying to kill me.
Thank You Tuxman!
Have driven this setup this summer and..
Always felt that the car was 95% there. The car (finally) points in with confidence, but corner exit was not what I thought it could be. (I suspect that part of this is my Lotus never had the violent acceleration capability to upset the chassis like the Noble does.)
After reading this thread, I am starting to think...
1) Simon seems to be unusually genital on corner exit (I must learn this) so he can take advantage of lower spring rates.
2) With the street setup, the preference was more biased towards comfort. (again, I didn't find the M400 setup uncomfortable) I should have probably stared with the track setup, but its primarily a street car.
So after reading this thread (looking for justification to say "I think Simon's setup, as good as it is, could be better tuned to my driving style"), I am going to try kicking the rear springs up from the 600 lbs/in to the eibach 700 lbs/in.
Doing this because my butt dyno says that: going around a constant radius traffic circle, at mostly constant speeds, the rear end just seems to slowly keep rolling over to the outside and then loses grip. My hope is that by increasing the rear spring rate, this will help slow the weight transfer and keep rear slow roll from happening.
Hoping this will not cause the rear end to just slide in a nice flat spin.
Guess the fun in in finding out.
Edited by doug_porsche on Friday 16th September 04:07
Edited by doug_porsche on Friday 16th September 04:10
Bad imagery for "take a set" is.
Its the point in the corner when you and the car agree on what each of you are going to contribute to successfully negotiate the corner.
More bad analogy would be. Lower the right rear tire pressure down to 5 psi, and then drive through a left hand corner moderately quickly. That uneasy feeling of "I need more steering input, no wait, now I need less steering input, darn it, now more, now less". The car never settles and/or takes a set.
Its the point in the corner when you and the car agree on what each of you are going to contribute to successfully negotiate the corner.
More bad analogy would be. Lower the right rear tire pressure down to 5 psi, and then drive through a left hand corner moderately quickly. That uneasy feeling of "I need more steering input, no wait, now I need less steering input, darn it, now more, now less". The car never settles and/or takes a set.
Edited by doug_porsche on Friday 16th September 11:41
doug_porsche said:
Bad imagery for "take a set" is.
Its the point in the corner when you and the car agree on what each of you are going to contribute to successfully negotiate the corner.
More bad analogy would be. Lower the right rear tire pressure down to 5 psi, and then drive through a left hand corner moderately quickly. That uneasy feeling of "I need more steering input, no wait, now I need less steering input, darn it, now more, now less". The car never settles and/or takes a set.
So the point in time when the car settles into a corner, allowing progressing application or balancing of the throttle.Its the point in the corner when you and the car agree on what each of you are going to contribute to successfully negotiate the corner.
More bad analogy would be. Lower the right rear tire pressure down to 5 psi, and then drive through a left hand corner moderately quickly. That uneasy feeling of "I need more steering input, no wait, now I need less steering input, darn it, now more, now less". The car never settles and/or takes a set.
Edited by doug_porsche on Friday 16th September 11:41
It was always fun in my TVR, discovering when it was safe to relax on turn-in. The Noble is much more stable and neutral.
For the record, Im think I'm running 650lb rear, 550lb front.. my car is very light so i would expect others to have slightly stiffer spring rates for the same ride etc.
My springs really did soften a lot over the years (especially the fronts), to the point on track that both front tyres bottomed on the clam on braking even on fully hard bump, I highly recommend fitting Eibachs.
Worth remembering Ive had my Protechs on the car for 6 years now, I've only changed the springs, they have not yet needed a rebuild.
My springs really did soften a lot over the years (especially the fronts), to the point on track that both front tyres bottomed on the clam on braking even on fully hard bump, I highly recommend fitting Eibachs.
Worth remembering Ive had my Protechs on the car for 6 years now, I've only changed the springs, they have not yet needed a rebuild.
just got Hollowpockets old race set of M400 shocks, 900/1100lbs F/R... this should be fun,
seriously I had in mind to drop the spring rates, interested to hear whats a happy medium..
agree on Eibach springs as an upgrade, Black art refurbished my original shocks the other year and recommended replacement springs, very progressive.
seriously I had in mind to drop the spring rates, interested to hear whats a happy medium..
agree on Eibach springs as an upgrade, Black art refurbished my original shocks the other year and recommended replacement springs, very progressive.
andygtt said:
...The problem with the protechs is setup, people simply don't get it right. The recommended settings are knowhere near what I ran on mine when I had the protechs springs .... Mines not bouncy and is massively better controlled than stock...
Inquiring Protech owners, currently running the protech springs, would love to know/compare.What settings did you find worked best for you?
Thanks for the input Doug !!
I've just spent the last month or so running on brand new protechs with 475 lb on the front and 700 on the rear front dampers set at 8clicks from fully soft on both damp and rebound and 10 clicks on the rear .
Nice comfy ride with plenty of grip even in the wet , good bit of weight transfer on both braking and acceleration which felt nice , even Dawn commented on how nice the ride was .
Now my race setup which is going back on tomorrow runs Eibach 600lb on the front and 800lb on the rear with very soft helper springs to drop the ride height down too give me 50mm on the front splitter , these are awful on the road causing the car to tramline everywhere and lock up the front easily especially in the wet !!!!
The rear also skips about under hard acceleration over bumpy surfaces . They also created quite a bit of under steer which has taken some work to improve (aero and chassis setup)
On track they are simply stunning , this is the setup that holds the club class track record at Rockingham and race wins at Cadwel, and Rockingham With pole positions at Brands, Cadwel , I've also done a 2min 48 lap of Spa .
Amazingly the dampers are totally stock .
I've just spent the last month or so running on brand new protechs with 475 lb on the front and 700 on the rear front dampers set at 8clicks from fully soft on both damp and rebound and 10 clicks on the rear .
Nice comfy ride with plenty of grip even in the wet , good bit of weight transfer on both braking and acceleration which felt nice , even Dawn commented on how nice the ride was .
Now my race setup which is going back on tomorrow runs Eibach 600lb on the front and 800lb on the rear with very soft helper springs to drop the ride height down too give me 50mm on the front splitter , these are awful on the road causing the car to tramline everywhere and lock up the front easily especially in the wet !!!!
The rear also skips about under hard acceleration over bumpy surfaces . They also created quite a bit of under steer which has taken some work to improve (aero and chassis setup)
On track they are simply stunning , this is the setup that holds the club class track record at Rockingham and race wins at Cadwel, and Rockingham With pole positions at Brands, Cadwel , I've also done a 2min 48 lap of Spa .
Amazingly the dampers are totally stock .
doug_porsche said:
andygtt said:
...The problem with the protechs is setup, people simply don't get it right. The recommended settings are knowhere near what I ran on mine when I had the protechs springs .... Mines not bouncy and is massively better controlled than stock...
Inquiring Protech owners, currently running the protech springs, would love to know/compare.What settings did you find worked best for you?
In the end set your car up the way you like it .
I still think pound for pound as a alround damper the protechs take some beating .
TuxMan said:
There are so many factors than can change setup and feel !! , tyres and tyre pressures can have a massive effect along with aero and car weight !!
In the end set your car up the way you like it .
I still think pound for pound as a alround damper the protechs take some beating .
There again, I binned my Protechs for Gaz (same price).In the end set your car up the way you like it .
I still think pound for pound as a alround damper the protechs take some beating .
Took the car out for a spin this evening, and yeah, they're fab.
Many people complain about the bounce on Protechs (including myself and Jetstream). The standard road springs are not suitable. (IMHO)
If you experience this 'bounce', you can't dial it out with different settings. To explain it, my head was like a nodding dog just driving along.
There's some inherent problem that perhaps not everyone experiences.
We can settle this ---- Simon, on Monday take me out in your car, then you take a ride in mine?...
Apart from 300bhp difference, I'd love to feel the setup you're running. (Albeit I know you've fitted your race setup for Monday).
Jarcy said:
TuxMan said:
There are so many factors than can change setup and feel !! , tyres and tyre pressures can have a massive effect along with aero and car weight !!
In the end set your car up the way you like it .
I still think pound for pound as a alround damper the protechs take some beating .
There again, I binned my Protechs for Gaz (same price).In the end set your car up the way you like it .
I still think pound for pound as a alround damper the protechs take some beating .
Took the car out for a spin this evening, and yeah, they're fab.
Many people complain about the bounce on Protechs (including myself and Jetstream). The standard road springs are not suitable. (IMHO)
If you experience this 'bounce', you can't dial it out with different settings. To explain it, my head was like a nodding dog just driving along.
There's some inherent problem that perhaps not everyone experiences.
We can settle this ---- Simon, on Monday take me out in your car, then you take a ride in mine?...
Apart from 300bhp difference, I'd love to feel the setup you're running. (Albeit I know you've fitted your race setup for Monday).
They certainly have not suggested to me they are unhappy with the performance of them .
Happy to chat more Monday .
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