SUPRA MOTOR???
Discussion
First, thank you for the warm welcome to a future Noble owner.
Secondly, I don't even know where to begin. I'll try to overlook all the negative comments regarding my origin of the United States, muchless the comments towards Texas or even my penis size? - as I never even brought these things up. Can the people in this forum not have a reasonable discussion without being childish and hostile, and use name calling? I assumed with the price of this car, most would be educated adults.
Most importantly, I NEVER stated that the Supra engine should be transplanted into the Noble. In fact I stated Lawrence was correct that it wouldn't even fit in the first place. That and the fact that I never stated that 900rwhp would be good for a Noble. Where were these comments derived from? Oh yes, your bum. I simply stated 4 things.
1) That I believed the Noble needed more power. Obviously a LOT of people on this forum think the same way; otherwise everyone wouldn't be so giddy everytime a new power upgrade is being announced. How many people are not looking forward to the 400hp upgrade? Possibly the people who got stuck with a 2.5L or the weaker 5spd? When and if it becomes a 500hp upgrade will you not be happy? Not all roads or tracks are 100% filled with twisty turns. If they were, I'd much rather have a neutered Elise. Without power, it doesn't matter how well the Noble handles. And yes it handles extremely well. But no it isn't near as quick as I'd like in a straight line basing off it's weight/hp and the documented 1/4 mile statistics. Mid 12s and 115mph in the 1/4 is barely Corvette level and that's sad. Maybe to some of you that is fast? It's just hard to go from a fast car to a slower one. It was noted by Goodlife that as is the Noble lost traction - albeit in the wet? Not sure why a wet comparison was mentioned as that's not a tough thing to do in any sporty car. I was planning on using something a lot wider on the street than a 265 (there is room I checked) and something a lot sticker than a S03. Those make a great tire on my 4 door though. I plan on racing with Hoosier RS04s on the track, as I would hope any serious roadracer would. It's easier to solve a traction problem than a power problem. How many of you even seriously track your Noble? Otherwise why buy a serious car? To drive around town to look seriously pretty in? Why boast about it's handling if you don't use it? And obviously this isn't a 1/4 mile car and never did I state it was. But, some tracks I'd love to take it to have some very nice long straights. And some events I'd like to race it in throw a drag strip in the mix as well.
2) I asked if anyone knew anything about modifying the Duratec engine and apparently no one knows and no one cares. I'm not sure if I would have the balls to modify a Ford engine either. To the guy with the 225hp 911, not everyone is at your limit. Nice car, I owned one too about 10 years ago until I got tired of getting whooped by cheap Camaros on the straights. A higher exit speed can't overcome a 100hp deficit even in such a pretty car as the 911 Carrera.
3) I was correcting someone stating that the Supra was an aweful lot worse than the Ford engine. I even stated that this was a Noble forum meaning this discussion had no basis here. I've done almost a year of extensive research on the Noble and have read this forum and a few others from start to finish. Everything except drive the car. Before anyone starts calling me a liar or clueless regarding the 2JZGTE, I would have hoped you would have at least done a little research. It seems no one did. Obviously when I stated that when you switch turbos (by the way the fore mentioned HKS twins are crap) you'd have to upgrade other things besides that. i.e. the fuel system, larger intercooler, different clutch. I figured that was as common sense as having to put your shoe on before tying it. I never said "only switching the turbos". The only thing I noted keeping stock was internals. "Fettling"? What in the world is that? As stated 700-960+ rwhp on stock internals IS the common average now. I'm not touting the Supra engine as I could care less. The Viper's V10 is currently doing 900+ rwhp on stock internals as well with just a blower. Yes, I was shocked too, but I didn't deny it. Do some reasearch, don't just sling some asinine comment in denial. The stated UK Supra experts are unknowns so why would I want to talk to them? And yes the minor mods I stated do give 500hp at the crank. I was being conservative too. 400-480 rwhp is the average. I'm sure someone here can calculate crank hp from rwhp. Again, do some research. This isn't classified information. And who really cares? This isn't Supraforums. In fact, I didn't even bring this topic up. I was simply trying to clear up misinformation. Sure did cause quite a stir though. And "alleged hp", that's FUNNY! All those "alleged" dynos and 140-170+ trap speeds too.
PS. Lawrence. it takes less than a minute and is free to switch over to a "proper" twin turbo setup. Just FYI.
4) I even stated my love for the Noble and that I'm simply waiting out the upcoming power upgrades to purchase. I never wanted an arguement, but it seems there are a lot of hostile people in the Noble crowd. Having a nice fellowship is a plus to have with a great car. So far, that seems like a negative with the Noble.
John H
Secondly, I don't even know where to begin. I'll try to overlook all the negative comments regarding my origin of the United States, muchless the comments towards Texas or even my penis size? - as I never even brought these things up. Can the people in this forum not have a reasonable discussion without being childish and hostile, and use name calling? I assumed with the price of this car, most would be educated adults.
Most importantly, I NEVER stated that the Supra engine should be transplanted into the Noble. In fact I stated Lawrence was correct that it wouldn't even fit in the first place. That and the fact that I never stated that 900rwhp would be good for a Noble. Where were these comments derived from? Oh yes, your bum. I simply stated 4 things.
1) That I believed the Noble needed more power. Obviously a LOT of people on this forum think the same way; otherwise everyone wouldn't be so giddy everytime a new power upgrade is being announced. How many people are not looking forward to the 400hp upgrade? Possibly the people who got stuck with a 2.5L or the weaker 5spd? When and if it becomes a 500hp upgrade will you not be happy? Not all roads or tracks are 100% filled with twisty turns. If they were, I'd much rather have a neutered Elise. Without power, it doesn't matter how well the Noble handles. And yes it handles extremely well. But no it isn't near as quick as I'd like in a straight line basing off it's weight/hp and the documented 1/4 mile statistics. Mid 12s and 115mph in the 1/4 is barely Corvette level and that's sad. Maybe to some of you that is fast? It's just hard to go from a fast car to a slower one. It was noted by Goodlife that as is the Noble lost traction - albeit in the wet? Not sure why a wet comparison was mentioned as that's not a tough thing to do in any sporty car. I was planning on using something a lot wider on the street than a 265 (there is room I checked) and something a lot sticker than a S03. Those make a great tire on my 4 door though. I plan on racing with Hoosier RS04s on the track, as I would hope any serious roadracer would. It's easier to solve a traction problem than a power problem. How many of you even seriously track your Noble? Otherwise why buy a serious car? To drive around town to look seriously pretty in? Why boast about it's handling if you don't use it? And obviously this isn't a 1/4 mile car and never did I state it was. But, some tracks I'd love to take it to have some very nice long straights. And some events I'd like to race it in throw a drag strip in the mix as well.
2) I asked if anyone knew anything about modifying the Duratec engine and apparently no one knows and no one cares. I'm not sure if I would have the balls to modify a Ford engine either. To the guy with the 225hp 911, not everyone is at your limit. Nice car, I owned one too about 10 years ago until I got tired of getting whooped by cheap Camaros on the straights. A higher exit speed can't overcome a 100hp deficit even in such a pretty car as the 911 Carrera.
3) I was correcting someone stating that the Supra was an aweful lot worse than the Ford engine. I even stated that this was a Noble forum meaning this discussion had no basis here. I've done almost a year of extensive research on the Noble and have read this forum and a few others from start to finish. Everything except drive the car. Before anyone starts calling me a liar or clueless regarding the 2JZGTE, I would have hoped you would have at least done a little research. It seems no one did. Obviously when I stated that when you switch turbos (by the way the fore mentioned HKS twins are crap) you'd have to upgrade other things besides that. i.e. the fuel system, larger intercooler, different clutch. I figured that was as common sense as having to put your shoe on before tying it. I never said "only switching the turbos". The only thing I noted keeping stock was internals. "Fettling"? What in the world is that? As stated 700-960+ rwhp on stock internals IS the common average now. I'm not touting the Supra engine as I could care less. The Viper's V10 is currently doing 900+ rwhp on stock internals as well with just a blower. Yes, I was shocked too, but I didn't deny it. Do some reasearch, don't just sling some asinine comment in denial. The stated UK Supra experts are unknowns so why would I want to talk to them? And yes the minor mods I stated do give 500hp at the crank. I was being conservative too. 400-480 rwhp is the average. I'm sure someone here can calculate crank hp from rwhp. Again, do some research. This isn't classified information. And who really cares? This isn't Supraforums. In fact, I didn't even bring this topic up. I was simply trying to clear up misinformation. Sure did cause quite a stir though. And "alleged hp", that's FUNNY! All those "alleged" dynos and 140-170+ trap speeds too.
PS. Lawrence. it takes less than a minute and is free to switch over to a "proper" twin turbo setup. Just FYI.
4) I even stated my love for the Noble and that I'm simply waiting out the upcoming power upgrades to purchase. I never wanted an arguement, but it seems there are a lot of hostile people in the Noble crowd. Having a nice fellowship is a plus to have with a great car. So far, that seems like a negative with the Noble.
John H
A high percentage of Noble owners use their cars in anger on the track, after all, no one buys it for it's looks do they?
How much wider than a 265 do you think you can go? I'd guess no more than 285 before you get a lot of scrubbing (265's semi slicks can lead to scrubbing).
The Noble is not a drag strip car, it is very quick of the mark (3.7 to 60) but above 100 the drag which is the trade off for the downforce slows the rate of acceleration. It has been proved that the Noble can out accelerate a 996 TT X50 until it hit's it's brick wall, then sure as hell the porker come flying past. Lap times is the Nobles point, not straight lines.
It looks like Marc is already looking at what you want and I'd assume you are both using the same importer so have a chat - I'd be interested to see how well a 420bhp car goes.
Sorry for any being hostility.
>> Edited by m12_nathan on Saturday 13th December 22:13
How much wider than a 265 do you think you can go? I'd guess no more than 285 before you get a lot of scrubbing (265's semi slicks can lead to scrubbing).
The Noble is not a drag strip car, it is very quick of the mark (3.7 to 60) but above 100 the drag which is the trade off for the downforce slows the rate of acceleration. It has been proved that the Noble can out accelerate a 996 TT X50 until it hit's it's brick wall, then sure as hell the porker come flying past. Lap times is the Nobles point, not straight lines.
It looks like Marc is already looking at what you want and I'd assume you are both using the same importer so have a chat - I'd be interested to see how well a 420bhp car goes.
Sorry for any being hostility.
>> Edited by m12_nathan on Saturday 13th December 22:13
John H.
Do your self a HUGE favour. Book a cheap flight to the UK. Head for any Noble Dealer or better still, the Noble factory, and take a test drive in a 3R. This will give you a good bench mark as to what you are looking for.
From my experience, 400bhp in a 3R is bloody exciting. It lights up the rear tyres in the DRY in the first 3 gears, and provides a little chirp from the rears as you change up to fourth. In the damp or wet you have to be very progressive on the throttle.
It can cope with bumpy 'B' or secondary roads better than anything else I have driven, with total confidence. On the track (OK, only one day at Rockingham so far with this car) it grips, and changes direction like no other road car. You need to be in either a Race Car or Track Day special car to exceed the Noble.
Book that flight. You will save yourself a pile of well earned bucks, and get to meet the well informed.
Cheers
Ian.
Do your self a HUGE favour. Book a cheap flight to the UK. Head for any Noble Dealer or better still, the Noble factory, and take a test drive in a 3R. This will give you a good bench mark as to what you are looking for.
From my experience, 400bhp in a 3R is bloody exciting. It lights up the rear tyres in the DRY in the first 3 gears, and provides a little chirp from the rears as you change up to fourth. In the damp or wet you have to be very progressive on the throttle.
It can cope with bumpy 'B' or secondary roads better than anything else I have driven, with total confidence. On the track (OK, only one day at Rockingham so far with this car) it grips, and changes direction like no other road car. You need to be in either a Race Car or Track Day special car to exceed the Noble.
Book that flight. You will save yourself a pile of well earned bucks, and get to meet the well informed.
Cheers
Ian.
Cheaper yet, just fly to Cincinnati, rent a car, drive up to Hamilton, OH (<30 min from the airport) and drive a GTO 3R at Dynamic Motorsports/ 1G Racing. Dean will take you out for a ride and if he is comfortable with you, let you drive it. The demo car has somewhere between 360 and 370 hp with less than 10 lbs of boost. Also one of the engine shops is less than 50 yards behind the warehouse and you can ask them about modifications.
ps. Yes the Cameros and Vettes out drag me on the straights, but I enter and exit turns faster, brake later and most importantly have lower lap times with 16 yr old car on street tires.
ps. Yes the Cameros and Vettes out drag me on the straights, but I enter and exit turns faster, brake later and most importantly have lower lap times with 16 yr old car on street tires.
'Scuse me jumping in here. Not an owner, but have driven a 3 litre a bit and it is a superb, exciting car.
But isn't John H making a perfectly reasonable request ? If he wants to use his car on track with slicks, I'm sure it would cope well with more power, and would need it to keep up with modified GT's. The Venturi race cars which were pretty similar in concept to the Noble were running 450bhp getting on for 10 years ago. I'm sure lots of us would love to see a race spec Noble with 500 + bhp mixing it with similar power to weight Porkers etc, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Noble build one if the racing bug bites. Then we'll all want one !
But isn't John H making a perfectly reasonable request ? If he wants to use his car on track with slicks, I'm sure it would cope well with more power, and would need it to keep up with modified GT's. The Venturi race cars which were pretty similar in concept to the Noble were running 450bhp getting on for 10 years ago. I'm sure lots of us would love to see a race spec Noble with 500 + bhp mixing it with similar power to weight Porkers etc, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Noble build one if the racing bug bites. Then we'll all want one !
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