fuel pump fails in current production
Discussion
I came across this website in Japan from a FB post. They have a number of really interesting mods around heat / cooling.
https://www.satoruworks.com
In particular they sell 3 mods for cooling, after pointing out that the A110 was designed In France where hot temps are not anticipated.
a) front radiator aluminium shroud. This is fitted after temporarily removing the frunk to get access. It stops the heat from going up and heating up the frunk and the battery areas. They point out it will extend the life of all the plastics in the front and stop your groceries from being spoiled by heat and lower fuel temps.
b) front underbody panel, with vents. This in conjunction with (a), redirects the heat down and out of the car. The fuel tank is then measured and confirmed to be at ambient temps all the time with any kind of forward motion, instead of at high temps.
c) lower rear engine vent. This is an aluminium panel with vents that exhausts air from engine bay downward under car. They say it is measured to reduce engine bay temps dramatically in hot weather. There are some impressive temp drops including in oil temps and inlet air temps.
If I can order these from Japan I'm definitely going to get all three.
They have a number of other fascinating parts as well. An old school electronic pod type boost gauge for A pillar, low dust brake pads and some very expensive very nice dry carbon aero parts, among other things..
They also have a product for adding tilt to the fixed bucket seats. You remove the fixed runners and send them, they mod them to allow 3 steps of rear tilt to be selected for comfort. it isn't clear if the tilt can be done in motion or is more fiddly.
https://www.satoruworks.com
In particular they sell 3 mods for cooling, after pointing out that the A110 was designed In France where hot temps are not anticipated.
a) front radiator aluminium shroud. This is fitted after temporarily removing the frunk to get access. It stops the heat from going up and heating up the frunk and the battery areas. They point out it will extend the life of all the plastics in the front and stop your groceries from being spoiled by heat and lower fuel temps.
b) front underbody panel, with vents. This in conjunction with (a), redirects the heat down and out of the car. The fuel tank is then measured and confirmed to be at ambient temps all the time with any kind of forward motion, instead of at high temps.
c) lower rear engine vent. This is an aluminium panel with vents that exhausts air from engine bay downward under car. They say it is measured to reduce engine bay temps dramatically in hot weather. There are some impressive temp drops including in oil temps and inlet air temps.
If I can order these from Japan I'm definitely going to get all three.
They have a number of other fascinating parts as well. An old school electronic pod type boost gauge for A pillar, low dust brake pads and some very expensive very nice dry carbon aero parts, among other things..
They also have a product for adding tilt to the fixed bucket seats. You remove the fixed runners and send them, they mod them to allow 3 steps of rear tilt to be selected for comfort. it isn't clear if the tilt can be done in motion or is more fiddly.
Edited by a110au on Sunday 26th November 23:17
Well done and many thanks for finding this tuning company and their various improvements for the A110, especially those relating to cooling. The prices for the three items you're referring to seem pretty fair as well.
As it happens, due to my own A110's fuel pump failing in June (and restarting after an hour or so) and then again in July, with the dealership's diagnostic equipment unable to find any faults, they opted to replace the pump (which already had been replaced back in December 2021 as part of a standard in-service recall) and Alpine UK agreed to pay for it. So I now have what Alpine is now stating (about three weeks ago) is the definitive solution to the problem.
In the absence of any technical explanation from Alpine at the time, and from everything I read about the issue on forums, websites, etc. (and without any car design engineering expertise, of course) I concluded that gradual heat build up (most evidently in warmer weather temperatures) was the underlying issue, and that the fuel pump was the canary in the coal mine when it came to the Alpine's cooling management.
So back in August I went for the belt and braces approach, sourcing some cooling parts from MP Rezeau:
- Initially, their small twin fan device for cooling the fuel pump's regulator/sensor up in the front bulkhead where hot air builds up.
- Followed in September by their triple fan kit to replace the OEM double fan in the engine bay, plus a related thermal switch to start the fans at a lower temperature.
- Then in October, their water radiator which has a 40% greater capacity; and because the radiator water shares the same circuit as the engine and gearbox oils, the temperatures of these are also lowered.
I'm still waiting for the radiator's delivery (due very soon apparently), and I'm confident all these will help significantly improve my A110's cooling management capabilities. But these Japanese parts take a different approach, and look like very worthwhile additional modifications for the A110.
As it happens, due to my own A110's fuel pump failing in June (and restarting after an hour or so) and then again in July, with the dealership's diagnostic equipment unable to find any faults, they opted to replace the pump (which already had been replaced back in December 2021 as part of a standard in-service recall) and Alpine UK agreed to pay for it. So I now have what Alpine is now stating (about three weeks ago) is the definitive solution to the problem.
In the absence of any technical explanation from Alpine at the time, and from everything I read about the issue on forums, websites, etc. (and without any car design engineering expertise, of course) I concluded that gradual heat build up (most evidently in warmer weather temperatures) was the underlying issue, and that the fuel pump was the canary in the coal mine when it came to the Alpine's cooling management.
So back in August I went for the belt and braces approach, sourcing some cooling parts from MP Rezeau:
- Initially, their small twin fan device for cooling the fuel pump's regulator/sensor up in the front bulkhead where hot air builds up.
- Followed in September by their triple fan kit to replace the OEM double fan in the engine bay, plus a related thermal switch to start the fans at a lower temperature.
- Then in October, their water radiator which has a 40% greater capacity; and because the radiator water shares the same circuit as the engine and gearbox oils, the temperatures of these are also lowered.
I'm still waiting for the radiator's delivery (due very soon apparently), and I'm confident all these will help significantly improve my A110's cooling management capabilities. But these Japanese parts take a different approach, and look like very worthwhile additional modifications for the A110.
CharleyFarley66 said:
- Followed in September by their triple fan kit to replace the OEM double fan in the engine bay, plus a related thermal switch to start the fans at a lower temperature.
I don't understand why this could have any effect on the temperature of the fuel pump and ancillaries at the other end of the car.CharleyFarley66 said:
- Then in October, their water radiator which has a 40% greater capacity; and because the radiator water shares the same circuit as the engine and gearbox oils, the temperatures of these are also lowered.
A larger capacity radiator doesn't change the thermostat's operation. Under normal conditions you'll have exactly the same water/oil temps.Under sustained use on track, or under temperatures, a larger radiator slows the rate at which the water temp will rise. But it will still get to the same temps eventually. So it's good for extending your track sessions but I can't see the benefit for UK use. Especially as it carries a weight penalty
a110au said:
I came across this website in Japan from a FB post. They have a number of really interesting mods around heat / cooling.
https://www.satoruworks.com
In particular they sell 3 mods for cooling, after pointing out that the A110 was designed In France where hot temps are not anticipated.
a) front radiator aluminium shroud. This is fitted after temporarily removing the frunk to get access. It stops the heat from going up and heating up the frunk and the battery areas. They point out it will extend the life of all the plastics in the front and stop your groceries from being spoiled by heat and lower fuel temps.
b) front underbody panel, with vents. This in conjunction with (a), redirects the heat down and out of the car. The fuel tank is then measured and confirmed to be at ambient temps all the time with any kind of forward motion, instead of at high temps.
c) lower rear engine vent. This is an aluminium panel with vents that exhausts air from engine bay downward under car. They say it is measured to reduce engine bay temps dramatically in hot weather. There are some impressive temp drops including in oil temps and inlet air temps.
If I can order these from Japan I'm definitely going to get all three.
They have a number of other fascinating parts as well. An old school electronic pod type boost gauge for A pillar, low dust brake pads and some very expensive very nice dry carbon aero parts, among other things..
They also have a product for adding tilt to the fixed bucket seats. You remove the fixed runners and send them, they mod them to allow 3 steps of rear tilt to be selected for comfort. it isn't clear if the tilt can be done in motion or is more fiddly.
That's a great find. What a brilliant resource this global 24/7 online forum is! Hv just spent an hour on Google Translate and will probably follow your lead ....https://www.satoruworks.com
In particular they sell 3 mods for cooling, after pointing out that the A110 was designed In France where hot temps are not anticipated.
a) front radiator aluminium shroud. This is fitted after temporarily removing the frunk to get access. It stops the heat from going up and heating up the frunk and the battery areas. They point out it will extend the life of all the plastics in the front and stop your groceries from being spoiled by heat and lower fuel temps.
b) front underbody panel, with vents. This in conjunction with (a), redirects the heat down and out of the car. The fuel tank is then measured and confirmed to be at ambient temps all the time with any kind of forward motion, instead of at high temps.
c) lower rear engine vent. This is an aluminium panel with vents that exhausts air from engine bay downward under car. They say it is measured to reduce engine bay temps dramatically in hot weather. There are some impressive temp drops including in oil temps and inlet air temps.
If I can order these from Japan I'm definitely going to get all three.
They have a number of other fascinating parts as well. An old school electronic pod type boost gauge for A pillar, low dust brake pads and some very expensive very nice dry carbon aero parts, among other things..
They also have a product for adding tilt to the fixed bucket seats. You remove the fixed runners and send them, they mod them to allow 3 steps of rear tilt to be selected for comfort. it isn't clear if the tilt can be done in motion or is more fiddly.
Edited by a110au on Sunday 26th November 23:17
My intention is a more effective array of cooling equipment for my Alp based on the feedback from those owners who've already installed these items, and MP Rezeau's own testing and development.
It's not aimed at cooling the fuel pump. The triple fan kit's weight is 4kgs (I don't know that of the OEM fan kit) and according to MP Rezeau:
'To reinforce the airflow of the original compartment of your Alpine, we have designed this unique fan system integrating two or three high-flow fans.
We conducted a test and comparison session on the circuit using a temperature acquisition system. This allowed us to reduce the average engine compartment temperature from 70 degrees to 36 degrees during heavy track use.
The switch allows the control of the engine compartment fans according to the actual engine temperature. It is an electrical component which is fixed to a metal part of the engine and which allows the system to be triggered only when the temperature of the engine bay drops to 45 degrees.'
Under sustained use on track, or under temperatures, a larger radiator slows the rate at which the water temp will rise. But it will still get to the same temps eventually. So it's good for extending your track sessions but I can't see the benefit for UK use. Especially as it carries a weight penaltyThe weight of their radiator is 15 kgs; again, I don't know the weight of the OEM radiator but we could always weigh it once it's been taken out. According to MP Rezeau,the benefits are:
'- 40% more exchange
- Drop in engine temperature during trackday use
- Drop in box temperature
- Drop in engine oil temperature
- Plug and play assembly.'
(Allowing for Google Translate) 'The radiator core has been designed to the measurements of the A110 with the latest technology from PWR, thus guaranteeing high performance in terms of cooling. The water boxes are relatively complex between the fan mountings, the air conditioning condenser but also the anchors on the chassis. We have chosen to manufacture them using CNC in our machines to guarantee perfect sealing and optimum integration.
Like all of our products, our radiator is mounted in place of the original without any modification to your Alpine.
Its heat exchange capacity is increased by more than 40% but this is not its only asset... in fact the engine oil and the gearbox oil having a common circuit with that of the engine radiator, the gearbox temperatures speed and engine oil are lowered.'
In addition, the three items from the Japanese team's very different approach to cooling/reducing heat build up make a lot of sense.
Liam22 said:
CharleyFarley66 said:
- Followed in September by their triple fan kit to replace the OEM double fan in the engine bay, plus a related thermal switch to start the fans at a lower temperature.
I don't understand why this could have any effect on the temperature of the fuel pump and ancillaries at the other end of the car.It's not aimed at cooling the fuel pump. The triple fan kit's weight is 4kgs (I don't know that of the OEM fan kit) and according to MP Rezeau:
'To reinforce the airflow of the original compartment of your Alpine, we have designed this unique fan system integrating two or three high-flow fans.
We conducted a test and comparison session on the circuit using a temperature acquisition system. This allowed us to reduce the average engine compartment temperature from 70 degrees to 36 degrees during heavy track use.
The switch allows the control of the engine compartment fans according to the actual engine temperature. It is an electrical component which is fixed to a metal part of the engine and which allows the system to be triggered only when the temperature of the engine bay drops to 45 degrees.'
CharleyFarley66 said:
- Then in October, their water radiator which has a 40% greater capacity; and because the radiator water shares the same circuit as the engine and gearbox oils, the temperatures of these are also lowered.
A larger capacity radiator doesn't change the thermostat's operation. Under normal conditions, you'll have exactly the same water/oil temps.Under sustained use on track, or under temperatures, a larger radiator slows the rate at which the water temp will rise. But it will still get to the same temps eventually. So it's good for extending your track sessions but I can't see the benefit for UK use. Especially as it carries a weight penalty
'- 40% more exchange
- Drop in engine temperature during trackday use
- Drop in box temperature
- Drop in engine oil temperature
- Plug and play assembly.'
(Allowing for Google Translate) 'The radiator core has been designed to the measurements of the A110 with the latest technology from PWR, thus guaranteeing high performance in terms of cooling. The water boxes are relatively complex between the fan mountings, the air conditioning condenser but also the anchors on the chassis. We have chosen to manufacture them using CNC in our machines to guarantee perfect sealing and optimum integration.
Like all of our products, our radiator is mounted in place of the original without any modification to your Alpine.
Its heat exchange capacity is increased by more than 40% but this is not its only asset... in fact the engine oil and the gearbox oil having a common circuit with that of the engine radiator, the gearbox temperatures speed and engine oil are lowered.'
In addition, the three items from the Japanese team's very different approach to cooling/reducing heat build up make a lot of sense.
Think this is a great idea and got me thinking for those of us living in the UK.
Here is my idea:
https://flic.kr/p/2pi7NMT
Ready made louvres from Toolstation, a simple glue and pop rivet. I'll have a go when the weather warms up and post some photos of the result.
Here is my idea:
https://flic.kr/p/2pi7NMT
Ready made louvres from Toolstation, a simple glue and pop rivet. I'll have a go when the weather warms up and post some photos of the result.
Well, that's a bit of a b@gger!
Went online to buy those three SatoruWorks cooling panels and within an hour they'd refunded my payment as 'We are sorry, but our products are not sold overseas. Therefore, PayPal payment will be cancelled.'
Ironically, the chap at SatoruWors went on to add 'I look forward to working with you.'...!!
It's a real shame; especially in the absence of any technical explanation from Alpine as to the cause of the failures of the OEM (Denso) fuel pumps. According to an article in L'Argus, over 2,800 fuel pumps were replaced by Alpine in 2021 alone before the issue was acknowledged in 2023 as a real problem, and so the third variation of pump was developed, tested and validated by Alpine in late October 2023 for all cars made up to May 2022.
SatoruWorks's identification of heat build-up due to the heat from the radiator and the condenser units and the consequent impact on the fuel tank and its internal pump suggests they're genuinely onto something. While they also acknowledge that the heat in Japan can be excessive, I'll quote from the relevant website (satoruworks.com) page for the radiator cooling panel (with thanks to Google Translate, and for anything lost in translation!):
'We have installed a radiator cooling panel for the purpose of appropriate temperature control throughout the year. Due to a layout issue with the A110, radiator exhaust hot air enters the front hood. By using this product, the radiator exhaust hot air can be discharged under the floor without entering the front hood, which significantly reduces the performance of each part inside the front hood, such as the battery brake reserve tank, fuel tank, and front trunk. It becomes possible. It is also possible to alleviate the troublesome phenomenon where luggage and food stored in the front trunk get stuck. The radiator exhaust heat temperature does not differ much between summer and winter, so it is effective throughout the year. Additionally, the effect can be further increased by installing a cooling underfloor.'
- Vehicle-free bolt-on installation
- All aluminum press/laser processing finish
- Prevents radiator exhaust heat from entering the front hood and discharges it under the floor.
- Maximum effectiveness is achieved during traffic jams and continuous low-speed driving.
- Fuel tank temperature reduced by up to 29℃ (77℃→48℃)
- Front trunk (luggage storage space) temperature reduced by up to 26℃ (66℃→40℃)
- Battery/brake fluid reserve tank temperature drop
- Prevents deterioration of resin parts inside the trunk hood
- For vehicles until the first half of 2020, radiator fan shroud processing is required at the same time as installation.
- The FAN shroud processing method is described in the installation instructions.
- The cooling effect will be further increased by installing the cooling underfloor at the same time.
- Compatible with dealer official LHD/RHD (parallel imported vehicles not confirmed)
- Preventing small animals from entering from under the floor
- As this is a pressed/laser processed product, small scratches etc. are not subject to complaints.
- The temperature change values listed are data for shrouded vehicles up to the first half of 2020.
- The temperature change values listed are our test values from August to September 2022, and the temperature change will vary if conditions differ.
For the Alpine A110 Cooling Underfloor:
- Vehicle-free bolt-on installation
- All aluminum press/laser processing finish
- Heat-resistant material is set for the bottom of the fuel tank.
- Prevents fuel temperature from rising and reduces engine output
- Heat accumulated inside the front hood (around the fuel tank) is discharged to the bottom of the floor.
- Fuel tank temperature reduced by up to 38℃ (77℃→39℃/combined with radiator cooling panel)
- Effective at driving speeds of approximately 20km/h or higher
- Reduces the fuel tank temperature to about the outside temperature when driving continuously at a speed of 60km/h or higher (combined with radiator cooling panel)
- Circulates air inside the front hood using negative running pressure
- The effect will be limited when stopped or driving at extremely low speeds.
- Compatible with dealer official LHD/RHD (parallel imported vehicles not confirmed)
- As this is a pressed/laser processed product, small scratches etc. are not subject to complaints.
The temperature change values listed are our test values from August to September 2022, and the temperature change will vary if conditions differ.
Strongly recommended for use with radiator cooling panel
Some models such as Ascension S have a different undercover shape from other grades, but this product can be installed.
SatoruWorks's website has good images of the cooling panel parts they've developed, and helps explain their rationale very well.
a110au, would you like to go into the import/export business and set up a franchise for SatoruWorks's stuff?! I'll be your first customer!
Went online to buy those three SatoruWorks cooling panels and within an hour they'd refunded my payment as 'We are sorry, but our products are not sold overseas. Therefore, PayPal payment will be cancelled.'
Ironically, the chap at SatoruWors went on to add 'I look forward to working with you.'...!!
It's a real shame; especially in the absence of any technical explanation from Alpine as to the cause of the failures of the OEM (Denso) fuel pumps. According to an article in L'Argus, over 2,800 fuel pumps were replaced by Alpine in 2021 alone before the issue was acknowledged in 2023 as a real problem, and so the third variation of pump was developed, tested and validated by Alpine in late October 2023 for all cars made up to May 2022.
SatoruWorks's identification of heat build-up due to the heat from the radiator and the condenser units and the consequent impact on the fuel tank and its internal pump suggests they're genuinely onto something. While they also acknowledge that the heat in Japan can be excessive, I'll quote from the relevant website (satoruworks.com) page for the radiator cooling panel (with thanks to Google Translate, and for anything lost in translation!):
'We have installed a radiator cooling panel for the purpose of appropriate temperature control throughout the year. Due to a layout issue with the A110, radiator exhaust hot air enters the front hood. By using this product, the radiator exhaust hot air can be discharged under the floor without entering the front hood, which significantly reduces the performance of each part inside the front hood, such as the battery brake reserve tank, fuel tank, and front trunk. It becomes possible. It is also possible to alleviate the troublesome phenomenon where luggage and food stored in the front trunk get stuck. The radiator exhaust heat temperature does not differ much between summer and winter, so it is effective throughout the year. Additionally, the effect can be further increased by installing a cooling underfloor.'
- Vehicle-free bolt-on installation
- All aluminum press/laser processing finish
- Prevents radiator exhaust heat from entering the front hood and discharges it under the floor.
- Maximum effectiveness is achieved during traffic jams and continuous low-speed driving.
- Fuel tank temperature reduced by up to 29℃ (77℃→48℃)
- Front trunk (luggage storage space) temperature reduced by up to 26℃ (66℃→40℃)
- Battery/brake fluid reserve tank temperature drop
- Prevents deterioration of resin parts inside the trunk hood
- For vehicles until the first half of 2020, radiator fan shroud processing is required at the same time as installation.
- The FAN shroud processing method is described in the installation instructions.
- The cooling effect will be further increased by installing the cooling underfloor at the same time.
- Compatible with dealer official LHD/RHD (parallel imported vehicles not confirmed)
- Preventing small animals from entering from under the floor
- As this is a pressed/laser processed product, small scratches etc. are not subject to complaints.
- The temperature change values listed are data for shrouded vehicles up to the first half of 2020.
- The temperature change values listed are our test values from August to September 2022, and the temperature change will vary if conditions differ.
For the Alpine A110 Cooling Underfloor:
- Vehicle-free bolt-on installation
- All aluminum press/laser processing finish
- Heat-resistant material is set for the bottom of the fuel tank.
- Prevents fuel temperature from rising and reduces engine output
- Heat accumulated inside the front hood (around the fuel tank) is discharged to the bottom of the floor.
- Fuel tank temperature reduced by up to 38℃ (77℃→39℃/combined with radiator cooling panel)
- Effective at driving speeds of approximately 20km/h or higher
- Reduces the fuel tank temperature to about the outside temperature when driving continuously at a speed of 60km/h or higher (combined with radiator cooling panel)
- Circulates air inside the front hood using negative running pressure
- The effect will be limited when stopped or driving at extremely low speeds.
- Compatible with dealer official LHD/RHD (parallel imported vehicles not confirmed)
- As this is a pressed/laser processed product, small scratches etc. are not subject to complaints.
The temperature change values listed are our test values from August to September 2022, and the temperature change will vary if conditions differ.
Strongly recommended for use with radiator cooling panel
Some models such as Ascension S have a different undercover shape from other grades, but this product can be installed.
SatoruWorks's website has good images of the cooling panel parts they've developed, and helps explain their rationale very well.
a110au, would you like to go into the import/export business and set up a franchise for SatoruWorks's stuff?! I'll be your first customer!
CharleyFarley66 said:
Well, that's a bit of a b@gger!
Went online to buy those three SatoruWorks cooling panels and within an hour they'd refunded my payment as 'We are sorry, but our products are not sold overseas. Therefore, PayPal payment will be cancelled.'
Ironically, the chap at SatoruWors went on to add 'I look forward to working with you.'...!!
It's a real shame; especially in the absence of any technical explanation from Alpine as to the cause of the failures of the OEM (Denso) fuel pumps. According to an article in L'Argus, over 2,800 fuel pumps were replaced by Alpine in 2021 alone before the issue was acknowledged in 2023 as a real problem, and so the third variation of pump was developed, tested and validated by Alpine in late October 2023 for all cars made up to May 2022.
SatoruWorks's identification of heat build-up due to the heat from the radiator and the condenser units and the consequent impact on the fuel tank and its internal pump suggests they're genuinely onto something. While they also acknowledge that the heat in Japan can be excessive, I'll quote from the relevant website (satoruworks.com) page for the radiator cooling panel (with thanks to Google Translate, and for anything lost in translation!):
'We have installed a radiator cooling panel for the purpose of appropriate temperature control throughout the year. Due to a layout issue with the A110, radiator exhaust hot air enters the front hood. By using this product, the radiator exhaust hot air can be discharged under the floor without entering the front hood, which significantly reduces the performance of each part inside the front hood, such as the battery brake reserve tank, fuel tank, and front trunk. It becomes possible. It is also possible to alleviate the troublesome phenomenon where luggage and food stored in the front trunk get stuck. The radiator exhaust heat temperature does not differ much between summer and winter, so it is effective throughout the year. Additionally, the effect can be further increased by installing a cooling underfloor.'
- Vehicle-free bolt-on installation
- All aluminum press/laser processing finish
- Prevents radiator exhaust heat from entering the front hood and discharges it under the floor.
- Maximum effectiveness is achieved during traffic jams and continuous low-speed driving.
- Fuel tank temperature reduced by up to 29? (77??48?)
- Front trunk (luggage storage space) temperature reduced by up to 26? (66??40?)
- Battery/brake fluid reserve tank temperature drop
- Prevents deterioration of resin parts inside the trunk hood
- For vehicles until the first half of 2020, radiator fan shroud processing is required at the same time as installation.
- The FAN shroud processing method is described in the installation instructions.
- The cooling effect will be further increased by installing the cooling underfloor at the same time.
- Compatible with dealer official LHD/RHD (parallel imported vehicles not confirmed)
- Preventing small animals from entering from under the floor
- As this is a pressed/laser processed product, small scratches etc. are not subject to complaints.
- The temperature change values ??listed are data for shrouded vehicles up to the first half of 2020.
- The temperature change values ??listed are our test values ??from August to September 2022, and the temperature change will vary if conditions differ.
For the Alpine A110 Cooling Underfloor:
- Vehicle-free bolt-on installation
- All aluminum press/laser processing finish
- Heat-resistant material is set for the bottom of the fuel tank.
- Prevents fuel temperature from rising and reduces engine output
- Heat accumulated inside the front hood (around the fuel tank) is discharged to the bottom of the floor.
- Fuel tank temperature reduced by up to 38? (77??39?/combined with radiator cooling panel)
- Effective at driving speeds of approximately 20km/h or higher
- Reduces the fuel tank temperature to about the outside temperature when driving continuously at a speed of 60km/h or higher (combined with radiator cooling panel)
- Circulates air inside the front hood using negative running pressure
- The effect will be limited when stopped or driving at extremely low speeds.
- Compatible with dealer official LHD/RHD (parallel imported vehicles not confirmed)
- As this is a pressed/laser processed product, small scratches etc. are not subject to complaints.
The temperature change values ??listed are our test values ??from August to September 2022, and the temperature change will vary if conditions differ.
Strongly recommended for use with radiator cooling panel
Some models such as Ascension S have a different undercover shape from other grades, but this product can be installed.
SatoruWorks's website has good images of the cooling panel parts they've developed, and helps explain their rationale very well.
a110au, would you like to go into the import/export business and set up a franchise for SatoruWorks's stuff?! I'll be your first customer!
Fabricated the inside of the frunk piece and all fitted, very easy and cheap as chips for a sheet of Ali. Should have bought 0.75mm would have been easier to bend, I got 1.4mm, was all they had. Used my dremel with a fibreglass cutting disc and a rubber mallet for a bit of panel beating to perfect the bend.Went online to buy those three SatoruWorks cooling panels and within an hour they'd refunded my payment as 'We are sorry, but our products are not sold overseas. Therefore, PayPal payment will be cancelled.'
Ironically, the chap at SatoruWors went on to add 'I look forward to working with you.'...!!
It's a real shame; especially in the absence of any technical explanation from Alpine as to the cause of the failures of the OEM (Denso) fuel pumps. According to an article in L'Argus, over 2,800 fuel pumps were replaced by Alpine in 2021 alone before the issue was acknowledged in 2023 as a real problem, and so the third variation of pump was developed, tested and validated by Alpine in late October 2023 for all cars made up to May 2022.
SatoruWorks's identification of heat build-up due to the heat from the radiator and the condenser units and the consequent impact on the fuel tank and its internal pump suggests they're genuinely onto something. While they also acknowledge that the heat in Japan can be excessive, I'll quote from the relevant website (satoruworks.com) page for the radiator cooling panel (with thanks to Google Translate, and for anything lost in translation!):
'We have installed a radiator cooling panel for the purpose of appropriate temperature control throughout the year. Due to a layout issue with the A110, radiator exhaust hot air enters the front hood. By using this product, the radiator exhaust hot air can be discharged under the floor without entering the front hood, which significantly reduces the performance of each part inside the front hood, such as the battery brake reserve tank, fuel tank, and front trunk. It becomes possible. It is also possible to alleviate the troublesome phenomenon where luggage and food stored in the front trunk get stuck. The radiator exhaust heat temperature does not differ much between summer and winter, so it is effective throughout the year. Additionally, the effect can be further increased by installing a cooling underfloor.'
- Vehicle-free bolt-on installation
- All aluminum press/laser processing finish
- Prevents radiator exhaust heat from entering the front hood and discharges it under the floor.
- Maximum effectiveness is achieved during traffic jams and continuous low-speed driving.
- Fuel tank temperature reduced by up to 29? (77??48?)
- Front trunk (luggage storage space) temperature reduced by up to 26? (66??40?)
- Battery/brake fluid reserve tank temperature drop
- Prevents deterioration of resin parts inside the trunk hood
- For vehicles until the first half of 2020, radiator fan shroud processing is required at the same time as installation.
- The FAN shroud processing method is described in the installation instructions.
- The cooling effect will be further increased by installing the cooling underfloor at the same time.
- Compatible with dealer official LHD/RHD (parallel imported vehicles not confirmed)
- Preventing small animals from entering from under the floor
- As this is a pressed/laser processed product, small scratches etc. are not subject to complaints.
- The temperature change values ??listed are data for shrouded vehicles up to the first half of 2020.
- The temperature change values ??listed are our test values ??from August to September 2022, and the temperature change will vary if conditions differ.
For the Alpine A110 Cooling Underfloor:
- Vehicle-free bolt-on installation
- All aluminum press/laser processing finish
- Heat-resistant material is set for the bottom of the fuel tank.
- Prevents fuel temperature from rising and reduces engine output
- Heat accumulated inside the front hood (around the fuel tank) is discharged to the bottom of the floor.
- Fuel tank temperature reduced by up to 38? (77??39?/combined with radiator cooling panel)
- Effective at driving speeds of approximately 20km/h or higher
- Reduces the fuel tank temperature to about the outside temperature when driving continuously at a speed of 60km/h or higher (combined with radiator cooling panel)
- Circulates air inside the front hood using negative running pressure
- The effect will be limited when stopped or driving at extremely low speeds.
- Compatible with dealer official LHD/RHD (parallel imported vehicles not confirmed)
- As this is a pressed/laser processed product, small scratches etc. are not subject to complaints.
The temperature change values ??listed are our test values ??from August to September 2022, and the temperature change will vary if conditions differ.
Strongly recommended for use with radiator cooling panel
Some models such as Ascension S have a different undercover shape from other grades, but this product can be installed.
SatoruWorks's website has good images of the cooling panel parts they've developed, and helps explain their rationale very well.
a110au, would you like to go into the import/export business and set up a franchise for SatoruWorks's stuff?! I'll be your first customer!
https://flic.kr/p/2piCnk1
Will do the bottom panel if it's another nice day, that will be so much easier,; a bit of cutting to the undertray and pop rivet and glue the Ali louvres to it.
Edited by neil-g8km6 on Friday 1st December 13:47
CharleyFarley66 said:
OK neil-g8km6, I bow to your superior expertise and if you'd care to make an identical duplicate set, I'll reward you handsomely(-ish!), especially if you can fit these cooling panels as well. Whereabouts are you based?
If you look closely I cheated, not the Japanese mountings, I took the easy option using the radiator attachment and only used one bend as the Ali was just too thick to make multiple bends. I live in Sutton Coldfield and will gladly give you a hand if you're not too far away. If you could get hold of 0.75mm Ali sheet would make it so much easier to bend by hand.
See how I get on tomorrow fitting the louvres to the under tray, if I don't freeze to death first😂
I have some good contacts for buying parts in Japan and shipping to the UK from my Honda Beat Kei car rebuild I am sure they will be able to help you out.
try these people - I've used them a lot, great service https://jessestreeter.com/
try these people - I've used them a lot, great service https://jessestreeter.com/
Here are photos from today's efforts modifying the front undertray, adding louvres for cooling.
The first photo, working out where to cut, measured at least three + times and luckily only cut once!
Second photo shows the Ali louvres from Screwfix, pop riveted and glued with Evostic "Sticks like sh*t" .
Used a jig saw to cut out an oblong in the undertray, that s was easy. Cutting down the thin louvres was a pain!
The last photo, back on the car.
About 5 hours work, mainly working out where to cut.
, cost was just over £12
https://flic.kr/p/2piRGgZ
https://flic.kr/p/2piRGfS
https://flic.kr/p/2piPqX7
The first photo, working out where to cut, measured at least three + times and luckily only cut once!
Second photo shows the Ali louvres from Screwfix, pop riveted and glued with Evostic "Sticks like sh*t" .
Used a jig saw to cut out an oblong in the undertray, that s was easy. Cutting down the thin louvres was a pain!
The last photo, back on the car.
About 5 hours work, mainly working out where to cut.
, cost was just over £12
https://flic.kr/p/2piRGgZ
https://flic.kr/p/2piRGfS
https://flic.kr/p/2piPqX7
Edited by neil-g8km6 on Thursday 30th November 17:04
tony993 said:
Good work, Neil.
I wish I could find the time for these kinds of jobs. My Life110 gear change paddles are still in their box, & I bought those before my car was delivered, 18 months ago.
I'm well beyond that age of work, every day is a Sunday, however spare time is still at a premium and soon these Sundays will be too.I wish I could find the time for these kinds of jobs. My Life110 gear change paddles are still in their box, & I bought those before my car was delivered, 18 months ago.
Satoruworks will not sell to proxy buying services, or to foreigners, or to anyone suspected of helping foreigners get a part.
Apparently the venerable owner, who was less unreasonable, died recently and the current owner is completely against any foreign sales.
In other news, two new FP failures floated by in FB. One in Spain. Stranded with 1/5th of a tank.
The other was mentioned in comments as happening last week in UK but the car restarted and he got home.
Apparently the venerable owner, who was less unreasonable, died recently and the current owner is completely against any foreign sales.
In other news, two new FP failures floated by in FB. One in Spain. Stranded with 1/5th of a tank.
The other was mentioned in comments as happening last week in UK but the car restarted and he got home.
First of all, the south of France does get hot in the summer..... in this day and age, most countries experience severe hot weather.
secondly, for those that can just rely on the trunk, you can do the ultralight pack of the Alpine 110R by removing the frunk trim and get all the cooling you need? Obviously not for everyone but could help some i think.
secondly, for those that can just rely on the trunk, you can do the ultralight pack of the Alpine 110R by removing the frunk trim and get all the cooling you need? Obviously not for everyone but could help some i think.
I’d like to chime in with my own take on this. I have commented before but this time I have stripped my own car down a bit and have the benefit of being stood under it with an alcohol free Guinness (very nice drink) in my hand as I’m writing this post.
First of all let’s have a look at the radiator outlet:
Have you ever seen a better ducted air outlet? The amount of flow down to the low pressure area under the car will be phenomenal.
Let’s take a look at the front of the tank:
So it’s covered with an alloy front plate and insulated by inch thick neoprene which you can see forming the gasket where the radiator pipes run.
No radiator air gets into the front luggage area because the luggage plastic panel caps the duct off:
So, the next thing to think about is the pipes as they come down under the tank. For these photos I have removed the floor panel:
There is a full half inch of clearance between the tank and the pipes as they make their way up into the cutout section at the front.
So, what am I saying?
First of all to repeat that a plastic fuel tank, itself a great insulator and several mm thick and carrying a large quantity of cold fuel is not going to be heated to any great extent by a pair of aluminium pipes running at about 90 degrees of temperature over half an inch away and only for about a foot.
Second, the tank is insulated from the airflow by the aluminium panels, themselves great heat absorbers, and foam tank mounts and even then the radiator air flow is down and under the car at any speed, and not into the back of the tank directly.
In short, the Alpine engineers have done an outstanding job of managing the airflow and the packaging at the front.
What I would say is that if you wanted to make a small improvement about the only thing you could constructively do would be to install some heat reflective backed foam over the pipes at the bottom of the tank. This will immediately stop the radiated heat from warming the tank at all, should you (wrongly, imho) believe that this will have some bearing on your fuel pump.
Secondly, you could install similar onto the front trunk wall above the fans, which will then stop the trunk getting the rising heat, especially in traffic, and will undoubtedly reduce trunk temperature. I do not believe this will have any bearing on your fuel tank temperature. (NB - if installing the foil backed foam in this location, a powerful and flexible adhesive should be used as the inverted location and heat cycles will cause the foam to come unstuck if you just rely on whatever is on it. Alternatively a mechanical fixing for your heat shield could be designed.)
So what about all this cutting of the underbody? Well if you have the ducts open to the front you might succeed in directing some air up onto the pipes (along with filthy water and crap which the car wasn’t designed to have in that location) and if you do that then of course your air will locally cool the underside of your tank.
If you face the ducts the other way, towards the back, you’ll avoid the water and crap but not get very much in the way of airflow as that compartment is sealed at the front and only open a bit at the sides, so you’ll be relying on the pressure difference to suck the air in and round the pipes. Might work a tiny bit.
In any event, though, and the reason to absolutely not do this, is that you’re cutting a bloody great rectangular hole in the middle of a shear plate that would have been present for both roll stiffness testing of the shell and also for crash testing. The alloy plates are not just there to create a smooth underbody - they are substantial 2mm thick and are bolted with large M8x25mm coachbolts to the various subsections of the car. Their ability to provide shear resistance and absorb energy will be compromised by the fitment of a grille - whether that is a special one added by a Japanese guy who has a temperature probe in his toolbox or one of B&Q’s finest.
It is my belief entirely that the fuel pump failures are quite simply the result of a supplier supplying a product that did not meet specification, and that the rest of the statistics are just that, statistics that show which countries have Alpines that get used more in nice warm weather.
(I do not include the fuel pump ECU fans in my criticism, since I have not investigated this at all, and since it seems like that is a completely separate issue of an electronic unit with insufficient cooling via its provided heat sink.
First of all let’s have a look at the radiator outlet:
Have you ever seen a better ducted air outlet? The amount of flow down to the low pressure area under the car will be phenomenal.
Let’s take a look at the front of the tank:
So it’s covered with an alloy front plate and insulated by inch thick neoprene which you can see forming the gasket where the radiator pipes run.
No radiator air gets into the front luggage area because the luggage plastic panel caps the duct off:
So, the next thing to think about is the pipes as they come down under the tank. For these photos I have removed the floor panel:
There is a full half inch of clearance between the tank and the pipes as they make their way up into the cutout section at the front.
So, what am I saying?
First of all to repeat that a plastic fuel tank, itself a great insulator and several mm thick and carrying a large quantity of cold fuel is not going to be heated to any great extent by a pair of aluminium pipes running at about 90 degrees of temperature over half an inch away and only for about a foot.
Second, the tank is insulated from the airflow by the aluminium panels, themselves great heat absorbers, and foam tank mounts and even then the radiator air flow is down and under the car at any speed, and not into the back of the tank directly.
In short, the Alpine engineers have done an outstanding job of managing the airflow and the packaging at the front.
What I would say is that if you wanted to make a small improvement about the only thing you could constructively do would be to install some heat reflective backed foam over the pipes at the bottom of the tank. This will immediately stop the radiated heat from warming the tank at all, should you (wrongly, imho) believe that this will have some bearing on your fuel pump.
Secondly, you could install similar onto the front trunk wall above the fans, which will then stop the trunk getting the rising heat, especially in traffic, and will undoubtedly reduce trunk temperature. I do not believe this will have any bearing on your fuel tank temperature. (NB - if installing the foil backed foam in this location, a powerful and flexible adhesive should be used as the inverted location and heat cycles will cause the foam to come unstuck if you just rely on whatever is on it. Alternatively a mechanical fixing for your heat shield could be designed.)
So what about all this cutting of the underbody? Well if you have the ducts open to the front you might succeed in directing some air up onto the pipes (along with filthy water and crap which the car wasn’t designed to have in that location) and if you do that then of course your air will locally cool the underside of your tank.
If you face the ducts the other way, towards the back, you’ll avoid the water and crap but not get very much in the way of airflow as that compartment is sealed at the front and only open a bit at the sides, so you’ll be relying on the pressure difference to suck the air in and round the pipes. Might work a tiny bit.
In any event, though, and the reason to absolutely not do this, is that you’re cutting a bloody great rectangular hole in the middle of a shear plate that would have been present for both roll stiffness testing of the shell and also for crash testing. The alloy plates are not just there to create a smooth underbody - they are substantial 2mm thick and are bolted with large M8x25mm coachbolts to the various subsections of the car. Their ability to provide shear resistance and absorb energy will be compromised by the fitment of a grille - whether that is a special one added by a Japanese guy who has a temperature probe in his toolbox or one of B&Q’s finest.
It is my belief entirely that the fuel pump failures are quite simply the result of a supplier supplying a product that did not meet specification, and that the rest of the statistics are just that, statistics that show which countries have Alpines that get used more in nice warm weather.
(I do not include the fuel pump ECU fans in my criticism, since I have not investigated this at all, and since it seems like that is a completely separate issue of an electronic unit with insufficient cooling via its provided heat sink.
Edited by Julian Thompson on Sunday 10th December 20:37
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