Suspension Upgrade Options

[ThisInJapanese]

Thanks

[Juffled]

Has anyone got the ast’s fitted yet and want to give some feedback?

[Captainian]

I had the AST road versions fitted yesterday. I have only driven the car home so far (100 miles) and the car was fully loaded and 2-up, but even so it seems a massive step up in terms of performance and quality. It was immediately noticeable on the rough roads out of the trading estate that there was much less chatter over the rough, pot-holed stuff and once we got going the car just felt better planted and better controlled. After the final b-roads home I would say it just makes the whole car feel that bit more solid and 'premium' (can't think of a better word right now) in terms of ride and handling.

I'm upgrading from stock shocks and Life100 springs. Standard ARBs still.

I did ask Matt at Spires if the springs were a touch softer with the improved damping but he tells me they are a touch stiffer (I don't have numbers) - but right now it feels great.

[jont-]

AST roads fitted here too (on a Pure, previously OE setup on 34k miles). Not done a huge number of miles yet or had time to fiddle with the settings properly. I would say it's lost some of the feel of breathing with the road it previously had, and feels more like a normal "sports car" - some might like that but to me I'm not convinced it's an improvement for daily use. Was set about mid settings though, so perhaps backing the dampers off further would be better. Track day at Spa next weekend, so hoping improved body control will show itself there.

[7en]

jont- said:

AST roads fitted here too (on a Pure, previously OE setup on 34k miles). Not done a huge number of miles yet or had time to fiddle with the settings properly. I would say it's lost some of the feel of breathing with the road it previously had, and feels more like a normal "sports car" - some might like that but to me I'm not convinced it's an improvement for daily use. Was set about mid settings though, so perhaps backing the dampers off further would be better. Track day at Spa next weekend, so hoping improved body control will show itself there.

Thanks for the non rose tinted preliminary review, some good feedback considering how in tune you must be with the OE setup after 34k. I'm interested to hear how the AST roads are after tweaking...

I understand with budget limitations the dampers on the standard car simply can't be the best they could be, however for a softer setup road car they still seem to be the best option.

[Simon Owen]

jont- said:

AST roads fitted here too (on a Pure, previously OE setup on 34k miles). Not done a huge number of miles yet or had time to fiddle with the settings properly. I would say it's lost some of the feel of breathing with the road it previously had, and feels more like a normal "sports car" - some might like that but to me I'm not convinced it's an improvement for daily use. Was set about mid settings though, so perhaps backing the dampers off further would be better. Track day at Spa next weekend, so hoping improved body control will show itself there.

The normal “sports car” point is very valid, the base A110 offers something refreshingly different to pretty much anything else on the road doesn’t it. I think it is this very fact though that actually puts some people off, as to be fair everybody is used to the “normal” approach most manufacturers take.

Thing is if you do go down the more “normal” route with a sharper, slightly firmer, slightly gripper more tied down feeling it still works really well with the A110 platform. You don’t lose the low weight, small size and lovely feeling of agility do you, even set up more focussed I think it offers a subtly different experience to the normal “sports car” competition.

[Teatowell]

Simon Owen said:

The normal “sports car” point is very valid, the base A110 offers something refreshingly different to pretty much anything else on the road doesn’t it. I think it is this very fact though that actually puts some people off, as to be fair everybody is used to the “normal” approach most manufacturers take.

Thing is if you do go down the more “normal” route with a sharper, slightly firmer, slightly gripper more tied down feeling it still works really well with the A110 platform. You don’t lose the low weight, small size and lovely feeling of agility do you, even set up more focussed I think it offers a subtly different experience to the normal “sports car” competition.

The softer ride is one of the bigger things I love about the car, but I can't help thinking it could be better given the original dampers budget. However it seems for the most part anything aftermarket loses what I like about the car, for the sake of improving the stability.

[Captainian]

jont- said:

AST roads fitted here too (on a Pure, previously OE setup on 34k miles). Not done a huge number of miles yet or had time to fiddle with the settings properly. I would say it's lost some of the feel of breathing with the road it previously had, and feels more like a normal "sports car" - some might like that but to me I'm not convinced it's an improvement for daily use. Was set about mid settings though, so perhaps backing the dampers off further would be better. Track day at Spa next weekend, so hoping improved body control will show itself there.

I’m off to Spa in May as well so I would be really interested in your feedback. Mine currently set at 3 front, and 4 rear, clicks from full hard as recommended by Spires. Will need a more focussed drive with just me in the car to get a better feel. But yes there was some rose-tintedness!

[7en]

Teatowell said:

The softer ride is one of the bigger things I love about the car, but I can't help thinking it could be better given the original dampers budget. However it seems for the most part anything aftermarket loses what I like about the car, for the sake of improving the stability.

One thing often overlooked when it comes to a sense of improved damping is seats, of course beyond adding or subtracting weight it doesn't change the suspension dynamics, stability etc, but the difference seats alone can make in the same car can range from being serious, sharp and crashy, to playful, softer and more useable.

Edited by 7en on Sunday 10th March 16:36

[jont-]

A slightly more considered opinion now I've done a few more miiles. Prior to heading over to Spa, I backed the dampers off to 8 clicks from full hard. On the long motorway run over, I would say they're now close to the OE ride quality, perhaps very slightly underdamped for the spring rates at that setting. The track day itself way mostly wet and greasy, but still I firmed things up a bit. Having to jack the car to adjust is something of a PITA - I had a caterham previously with Nitrons where the dampers could be fitted at the bottom with adjusters at the bottom to make them easily reachable. Still...

For the wet, I think the fast road/track geo it now has is excessively aggressive, feeling the front tyres only the inner edges were getting warm. I never really felt like I was able to really lean on the car; having said that, all the Alpines seemed to excel in the wet running rings around various Porsche GT cars Ideally I'd have played a bit more with settings, it would be nice to find a lightweight quick jack of some sort that will fit in the car (using a scissor jack for ease of transport, I've only got a really heavy low lift jack). Body control felt better too, much less dive under braking (although again, ability to do this somewhat limited by conditions).

It will be interesting to try as the year (hopefully) warms up and dries out. I don't have any other track days planned just now. For now I've gone back to 7 clicks from full hard for the road trip back, will see how we get on. Might need a bit more in the summer.

Nice to see a bunch of other Alpines on track, don't think I've ever seen so many together.

[corrieb74]

Great thread.

I'm about to get the Life110 springs, S ARBs and fast road/track geo on my GT. Goal is to increase stability on track without ruining the ride.

I'm debating about the Bilsteins since it won't cost any more in labour to put them in as part of the job. I'm undecided though.
- On the plus side they're obviously a better quality damper and they have the adjustable ride height advantage
- On the downside, the Life110 springs were originally calibrated for the stock dampers. Also to get the benefit from the geo, you apparently need the lowered ride height, so you lose that advantage.

I suspect the Billsteins might actually be a better shock for the setup since they'll provide more control for the stiffer springs and ARBs. But then I worry that I'd be wasting money for a worse on-road experience. Would really welcome input from anyone who's gone this route.

Thanks, Ben

Edited by corrieb74 on Saturday 16th March 17:31

[Spokeyblokey]

corrieb74 said:

Great thread.

I'm about to get the Life110 springs, S ARBs and fast road/track geo on my GT. Goal is to increase stability on track without ruining the ride.

I'm debating about the Bilsteins since it won't cost any more in labour to put them in as part of the job. I'm undecided though.
- On the plus side they're obviously a better quality damper and they have the adjustable ride height advantage
- On the downside, the Life110 springs were originally calibrated for the stock dampers. Also to get the benefit from the geo, you apparently need the lowered ride height, so you lose that advantage.

I suspect the Billsteins might actually be a better shock for the setup since they'll provide more control for the stiffer springs and ARBs. But then I worry that I'd be wasting money for a worse on-road experience. Would really welcome input from anyone who's gone this route.

Thanks, Ben

Edited by corrieb74 on Saturday 16th March 17:31

(Purely personal of course but) I had Life110 springs and fast road geo on my S and then had the ASTs fitted in the autumn and I would say that the net additional cost of the coilovers is easily worth it.

[Simon Owen]

corrieb74 said:

Great thread.

I'm about to get the Life110 springs, S ARBs and fast road/track geo on my GT. Goal is to increase stability on track without ruining the ride.

I'm debating about the Bilsteins since it won't cost any more in labour to put them in as part of the job. I'm undecided though.
- On the plus side they're obviously a better quality damper and they have the adjustable ride height advantage
- On the downside, the Life110 springs were originally calibrated for the stock dampers. Also to get the benefit from the geo, you apparently need the lowered ride height, so you lose that advantage.

I suspect the Billsteins might actually be a better shock for the setup since they'll provide more control for the stiffer springs and ARBs. But then I worry that I'd be wasting money for a worse on-road experience. Would really welcome input from anyone who's gone this route.

Thanks, Ben

Edited by corrieb74 on Saturday 16th March 17:31

I think if you were considering springs plus damper (Bilstein) then the cost uplift for coilovers (AST) would be worthy of consideration.

I went Life 110 springs plus Bilstein but AST’s were not available at the time. Also I didn’t lower and the geo still feels pretty good to me with zero noticeable down sides as I can tell, just a sublimely balanced car.

[corrieb74]

Simon Owen said:

I think if you were considering springs plus damper (Bilstein) then the cost uplift for coilovers (AST) would be worthy of consideration.

I went Life 110 springs plus Bilstein but AST’s were not available at the time. Also I didn’t lower and the geo still feels pretty good to me with zero noticeable down sides as I can tell, just a sublimely balanced car.

Thanks Simon. Since I already have the parts and want to keep things simple, the coilovers aren't on the table. Are you using the Fast Road Track or Sports Geo? The FRT one does specify the -18mm. Have you done much/any track time with that setup?

[Simon Owen]

corrieb74 said:

Simon Owen said:

I think if you were considering springs plus damper (Bilstein) then the cost uplift for coilovers (AST) would be worthy of consideration.

I went Life 110 springs plus Bilstein but AST’s were not available at the time. Also I didn’t lower and the geo still feels pretty good to me with zero noticeable down sides as I can tell, just a sublimely balanced car.

Thanks Simon. Since I already have the parts and want to keep things simple, the coilovers aren't on the table. Are you using the Fast Road Track or Sports Geo? The FRT one does specify the -18mm. Have you done much/any track time with that setup?

Understood …



Not sure how this set up is described, I’m only a tad lower than oem which is what I wanted.

No track work to date, some fast road stuff in Europe.

[corrieb74]

Simon Owen said:

Not sure how this set up is described, I’m only a tad lower than oem which is what I wanted.

No track work to date, some fast road stuff in Europe.

That's essentially the Sports setting, which is what I currently have and is appropriate for the standard ride height. Perfect for spirited road driving.

The Fast Road / Track geo has -1.5 degrees of camber in the front.

Great to know though that you like the combination of the Life110 springs with the Bilsteins. What would you describe is the biggest difference you notice?

[Spokeyblokey]

Simon Owen said:

corrieb74 said:

Simon Owen said:

I think if you were considering springs plus damper (Bilstein) then the cost uplift for coilovers (AST) would be worthy of consideration.

I went Life 110 springs plus Bilstein but AST’s were not available at the time. Also I didn’t lower and the geo still feels pretty good to me with zero noticeable down sides as I can tell, just a sublimely balanced car.

Thanks Simon. Since I already have the parts and want to keep things simple, the coilovers aren't on the table. Are you using the Fast Road Track or Sports Geo? The FRT one does specify the -18mm. Have you done much/any track time with that setup?

Understood …



Not sure how this set up is described, I’m only a tad lower than oem which is what I wanted.

No track work to date, some fast road stuff in Europe.

I don't think you can read too much into the ride height figures Simon other than they indicate the change for your specific vehicle between the start of the suspension work, and the completion of it. Attached is the same read-out from my A110S also done at Spires. As you can see mine was measured at c.332 front and c.348 rear but I doubt my car sits 40-45mm lower than yours!

As I recall, Matt took a measurement from the wheel centre to the topmost point of the wheel arch, before and after the work, and used this to ensure that he'd set up the ride height so that it was the same before and after. Other than that, these numbers were of no real use to anyone else.

If Dave P (or Matt) is reading this thread, perhaps he can elaborate(?)

[Simon Owen]

I started ‘stock’ and asked Dave to put the Bilstein’s on the platform that got closest to this, which he did.

So for me only a marginal drop, ie I’m still pretty high compared to lots of cars. I like this as I can virtually ignore (within reason) bumps and crests on gnarly B roads.

[Simon Owen]

An interesting (albeit not cheap) option not often discussed is the Tractive Suspension active damper set up. I know Simon Rogers at Meteor Motorsport/Race Shocks UK and following their social media it looks like they have fitted a second Tractive set up to the A110. Not having to mess about adjusting set up is actually one thing that appeals about the A110... however there are absolutely times when adjustment on the fly would be really interesting to try. I know someone locally who has the system on their GR Yaris which I'm going to try and see how effective it is and how plush the damping feels ?

[Olivera]

jont- said:

Having to jack the car to adjust is something of a PITA - I had a caterham previously with Nitrons where the dampers could be fitted at the bottom with adjusters at the bottom to make them easily reachable. Still...

Is that because the damping adjuster is at the top end of the strut? Manual adjustment is fine if it can be adjusted easily from either top mounts or at the bottom of the strut (reaching behind wheel when on ground), but having to jack the car up does sound like a PITA.