Porsche Taycan and future Porsche EVs and values

[Fusion777]

stuckmojo said:

And the fitst below £50k one I've ever seen

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023112442...

Thought it might happen before Xmas.

[Murph7355]

stuckmojo said:

Big jump in used Taycans on Autotrader. Over 570

And the fitst below £50k one I've ever seen

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023112442...

Assuming it sells for that, that's probably 45% depreciation in 3yrs for a private sale, out of warranty car (with a smaller battery).

That doesn't seem too bad?

[stuckmojo]

Murph7355 said:

Assuming it sells for that, that's probably 45% depreciation in 3yrs for a private sale, out of warranty car (with a smaller battery).

That doesn't seem too bad?

I agree.

Something like a Panamera would have the same depreciation curve

[Buffalo Girls]

No brainier financial benefit for EV company car buyers aren’t equalled in the used market, hence the depreciation. Makes a used EV a great buy

[W12GT]

Fusion777 said:

stuckmojo said:

And the fitst below £50k one I've ever seen

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023112442...

Thought it might happen before Xmas.

I mentioned this some time ago too so not that surprised. Given what is happening at the moment I think it is highly possible that these will start with a 3 come Easter. That would make yhem incredible value if well serviced and in good order!

[b0rk]

Well 2023 was the first year that a significant number of cars first sold to businesses or for salsac entered the used market being defleeted at 36mo old. There are a lot more cars due to come up next year.

The first real crop seems to have cratered used values back to the originally predicted values.
However with new stock building up and used stock appearing not to move ‘24 is going to interesting. Even if Porsche didn’t produce another new Taycan from 1st Jan, roughly 2k used ones will enter the market for the first time.

I wouldn’t bet against poor spec/condition examples say a 40k mile 4S 78kwh with no extras falling below 30k by Easter.

[Murph7355]

b0rk said:

Well 2023 was the first year that a significant number of cars first sold to businesses or for salsac entered the used market being defleeted at 36mo old. There are a lot more cars due to come up next year.

The first real crop seems to have cratered used values back to the originally predicted values.
However with new stock building up and used stock appearing not to move ‘24 is going to interesting. Even if Porsche didn’t produce another new Taycan from 1st Jan, roughly 2k used ones will enter the market for the first time.

I wouldn’t bet against poor spec/condition examples say a 40k mile 4S 78kwh with no extras falling below 30k by Easter.

Likely accurate. What would that be though....something like 60% depreciation in 3-4yrs?

It'll also be interesting to see what knock on things like this have on other EVs, and how their residuals hold up.

[b0rk]

Murph7355 said:

Likely accurate. What would that be though....something like 60% depreciation in 3-4yrs?

It'll also be interesting to see what knock on things like this have on other EVs, and how their residuals hold up.

A bit less than 60% for a 4S if mid 30's as the new price in 2020 was a lot lower than today. It's not a bad residual just not what some had been naively expecting. Porsche finance won't be loosing out at that level but some other funders may find things more awkward, if you believed the hype and bought privately then its going to be an awkward conversation.
I have a suspicion that "spec" aka extra's really won't matter much on these as they age value wise, far too many for the size of the used market.
The OPC patter that you absolutely must spec options XYZ for resale will turn out to be untrue. I remember my local OPC telling me 18 months ago that getting one on contract hire would be madness to loose out on the strong residual come resale. Politely declined and got a boggo ICE Audi on PCH. I took the view that if the residuals where so bulletproof VWFS/Porsche FS wouldn't have set the future value so low.

You'd have thought there would be a cascade effect across the used EV (and ICE) markets as these things reach slightly more affordable levels. They are after-all really good cars at the right price. Yet it appears to me that Tesla model 3's are somewhat propping up used prices of premium EV metal. Four year old standard M3's, one owner with moon miles still hover around £20k.

[stuckmojo]

b0rk said:

A bit less than 60% for a 4S if mid 30's as the new price in 2020 was a lot lower than today. It's not a bad residual just not what some had been naively expecting. Porsche finance won't be loosing out at that level but some other funders may find things more awkward, if you believed the hype and bought privately then its going to be an awkward conversation.
I have a suspicion that "spec" aka extra's really won't matter much on these as they age value wise, far too many for the size of the used market.
The OPC patter that you absolutely must spec options XYZ for resale will turn out to be untrue. I remember my local OPC telling me 18 months ago that getting one on contract hire would be madness to loose out on the strong residual come resale. Politely declined and got a boggo ICE Audi on PCH. I took the view that if the residuals where so bulletproof VWFS/Porsche FS wouldn't have set the future value so low.

You'd have thought there would be a cascade effect across the used EV (and ICE) markets as these things reach slightly more affordable levels. They are after-all really good cars at the right price. Yet it appears to me that Tesla model 3's are somewhat propping up used prices of premium EV metal. Four year old standard M3's, one owner with moon miles still hover around £20k.

That's what I think too. OPCs now have 22 plate cars starting from mid £60s. Big change. If you have the Autotrader price tracker it shows a vertical decline. If they fall into the 30s by Easter I'm buying a 4s with OPC warranty.

[Murph7355]

Options and model will be important to actually sell a car quickly IMO. Perhaps not so much price (though these things are related).

[stabilio]

I'm tempted with one of these as a new company car but scared to death of losing at least £20 - £25k as soon as I drive it off the forecourt even with a decent discount.

While Autotrader has 500+ listed, Porsches own site has just over 750 listed as I type this. Considering these were a very in demand car not too long ago, to have this amount in stock just sitting there is crazy.

New facelift model coming soon, more 3 year leases up soon, can only push prices down even more.
What are these dealers going to do if prices keep on slipping downwards and stock keeps building?

Unless they can offer an outstanding deal, I'm sitting tight for a while to see how things go.

[Richard-G]

stabilio said:

I'm tempted with one of these as a new company car but scared to death of losing at least £20 - £25k as soon as I drive it off the forecourt even with a decent discount.

While Autotrader has 500+ listed, Porsches own site has just over 750 listed as I type this. Considering these were a very in demand car not too long ago, to have this amount in stock just sitting there is crazy.

New facelift model coming soon, more 3 year leases up soon, can only push prices down even more.
What are these dealers going to do if prices keep on slipping downwards and stock keeps building?

Unless they can offer an outstanding deal, I'm sitting tight for a while to see how things go.

i have one, my solution to negate the above would be to buy an eletre s.....

[DMC2]

stabilio said:

I'm tempted with one of these as a new company car but scared to death of losing at least £20 - £25k as soon as I drive it off the forecourt even with a decent discount.

While Autotrader has 500+ listed, Porsches own site has just over 750 listed as I type this. Considering these were a very in demand car not too long ago, to have this amount in stock just sitting there is crazy.

New facelift model coming soon, more 3 year leases up soon, can only push prices down even more.
What are these dealers going to do if prices keep on slipping downwards and stock keeps building?

Unless they can offer an outstanding deal, I'm sitting tight for a while to see how things go.

You will loose a lot more than that if you buy one. OPCs are not buying them in unless they are paying absolutely bottom pricing.

[stabilio]

Richard-G said:

i have one, my solution to negate the above would be to buy an eletre s.....

Not digging the Eletre if i'm honest and my other concern with the Taycan is the exterior size of it. Eletre is even bigger I think?

[Murph7355]

stabilio said:

Richard-G said:

i have one, my solution to negate the above would be to buy an eletre s.....

Not digging the Eletre if i'm honest and my other concern with the Taycan is the exterior size of it. Eletre is even bigger I think?

About 3% longer and wider, 16% taller.

Doesn't sound much, but I echo your concern over the Taycan's width (as an owner).

The answer to your conundrum might be to simply buy used (forget 100% write down as I'm not convinced it's really all that useful). You'll still have money to lose in depreciation, but less so. And what cars don't depreciate.

They're very, very good cars.

Ref stocks, Porsche have had a perfect storm on their hands IMO. Supply issues stoking up demand... Just as they get on top of that, war and financial instability pull the rug. I think they had a lot of cancelled orders for cars that were already being produced.

I also suspect that they need to make more electric cars to "carbon offset" the rest of the range, so the business case is different for the Taycan.

If I were them I'd scale back production markedly and delay the face-lift until stock levels are sensible again. Maybe even let the Macan EV be the big seller to take up the offset position. But they may think this isn't possible.

For me, I've liked them a lot since my first test drive. Man maths kicked in on a used one that was almost identically spec'd to the new order I placed Jan 22. I "needed" to replace two other cars. I knew values would keep having chunks taken off, but hey... You're a long time dead

[stabilio]

Murph7355 said:

About 3% longer and wider, 16% taller.

Doesn't sound much, but I echo your concern over the Taycan's width (as an owner).

The answer to your conundrum might be to simply buy used (forget 100% write down as I'm not convinced it's really all that useful). You'll still have money to lose in depreciation, but less so. And what cars don't depreciate.

They're very, very good cars.

Ref stocks, Porsche have had a perfect storm on their hands IMO. Supply issues stoking up demand... Just as they get on top of that, war and financial instability pull the rug. I think they had a lot of cancelled orders for cars that were already being produced.

I also suspect that they need to make more electric cars to "carbon offset" the rest of the range, so the business case is different for the Taycan.

If I were them I'd scale back production markedly and delay the face-lift until stock levels are sensible again. Maybe even let the Macan EV be the big seller to take up the offset position. But they may think this isn't possible.

For me, I've liked them a lot since my first test drive. Man maths kicked in on a used one that was almost identically spec'd to the new order I placed Jan 22. I "needed" to replace two other cars. I knew values would keep having chunks taken off, but hey... You're a long time dead

Can I ask how you find the width (and length) as if I do buy, it will be used as a daily (approx 70 miles a day) with almost zero motorway miles.
Its all B roads/town/city and the more narrow, broken country roads - plus car parking spaces at supermarkets etc.
After having x2 Tesla Model 3 Performance's since 2019, I'm getting bored of it now but do like the exterior size of it.

I have thought about buying used but it seems buying new gives a much better deal in terms of discounts.
Thats if my local-ish dealer ever gets back to me after a couple of calls so far.

[red_duke]

stabilio said:

Can I ask how you find the width (and length) …

Undoubtedly a big car but mine has the Rear Wheel Steering option and - apart from the weight - the Taycan feels almost as nimble as my old Cayman S!

Did have to empty my garage to get it in though

Edited by red_duke on Monday 4th December 15:47

[Murph7355]

stabilio said:

Can I ask how you find the width (and length) as if I do buy, it will be used as a daily (approx 70 miles a day) with almost zero motorway miles.
Its all B roads/town/city and the more narrow, broken country roads - plus car parking spaces at supermarkets etc.
After having x2 Tesla Model 3 Performance's since 2019, I'm getting bored of it now but do like the exterior size of it.

I have thought about buying used but it seems buying new gives a much better deal in terms of discounts.
Thats if my local-ish dealer ever gets back to me after a couple of calls so far.

It's long and wide

Mine gets used mostly on the sort of country roads you mention. You can't exploit the full performance of it due to the width...but then exploiting the full performance anywhere, all the time, would be a risky business

I'm still getting used to its size though, and also still fairly precious about not getting too close to hedgerows etc!

Parking spaces are OK. Surround View helps when you get used to how far away it's telling you you are.

In an ideal world, it'd be a few inches narrower and shorter for these roads. But it's a cracking machine so am OK to forgive it that

As for deals...depends how you're looking at it. From my experience I reckon there's potentially a good 20k-30k between new stock and lightly used.

I'm surprised your dealer didn't phone you back immediately. Try another, or maybe pop down. Perhaps try and get one on an extended test?

[Murph7355]

PS I also have rear wheel steer. I had a test drive in one without and it still drove well. But think RAS helps.

[stabilio]

Murph7355 said:

It's long and wide

Mine gets used mostly on the sort of country roads you mention. You can't exploit the full performance of it due to the width...but then exploiting the full performance anywhere, all the time, would be a risky business

I'm still getting used to its size though, and also still fairly precious about not getting too close to hedgerows etc!

Parking spaces are OK. Surround View helps when you get used to how far away it's telling you you are.

In an ideal world, it'd be a few inches narrower and shorter for these roads. But it's a cracking machine so am OK to forgive it that

As for deals...depends how you're looking at it. From my experience I reckon there's potentially a good 20k-30k between new stock and lightly used.

I'm surprised your dealer didn't phone you back immediately. Try another, or maybe pop down. Perhaps try and get one on an extended test?

Thanks kindly and good info and rear wheel steer was on my list.
Won't name the OPC, but they seem really un-interested tbh.
They replied quickly to my Autotrader enquiry and I replied back within 30 mins but never heard back again.
Next day someone else there emailed me and they did reply and had a phone call.
Never heard from them again but then the first person and someone also emailed and had another phone call for 20 mins so its all got a bit messy.
All I wanted was an approx PCP figure on a new car and a PCP figure on a used one plus a valuation on my car.
I got numbers/upsells on GAP, ceramic coating etc before any PCP figures and almost a week later, still only have a figure on a new car, an offer lower than WBAC on mine and now its all gone quiet again.
I've dealt with most dealers (as have had probably x15 cars in the last 8 years) but I've found Porsche really disappointing, slow and un-interested - and they have a good amount of Taycans in stock to get rid of.