Porsche Taycan and future Porsche EVs and values

[EvoSid]

simon800 said:

Hi Guys, new to this thread and keen on advice from those in the know!



So I've landed on a Taycan as something that will offer supercar looks, but every day practicality. Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me.

Hi sorry and genuinely not being funny but what do you mean when you say "Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me."

I cant get my head round how it is free if you own the ltd company.
Am i missing a trick by buying car privately even though I have my own ltd company ?

[jasonrobertson86]

EvoSid said:

Hi sorry and genuinely not being funny but what do you mean when you say "Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me."

I cant get my head round how it is free if you own the ltd company.
Am i missing a trick by buying car privately even though I have my own ltd company ?

yes but its not free

[Ed.Neumann]

tomvcarter said:

Ive got the cash for a Taycan, but would it be better to do a PCP?

I hear it might make it a safer bet when it comes to selling in a few years. However it sure that the added interest would be more than the potential hit when it comes to a sale.

Or am i missing something?

Residuals on a £100,000 Taycan are around £45k over 48 months.

So with £10k down you will pay £33,000 in interest over the period and have to find another £45k if you want to keep it.
Or if you hand the keys back it will have cost you £74,000 to rent it over the 4 years.

Therefore if you pay cash you will need the car to be worth less than £12k to be worse off than using their finance.

[tomvcarter]

AMVSVNick said:

Mileage per annum?

10,000

[tomvcarter]

Ed.Neumann said:

Residuals on a £100,000 Taycan are around £45k over 48 months.

So with £10k down you will pay £33,000 in interest over the period and have to find another £45k if you want to keep it.
Or if you hand the keys back it will have cost you £74,000 to rent it over the 4 years.

Therefore if you pay cash you will need the car to be worth less than £12k to be worse off than using their finance.

Ok good, you have confirmed it for me. Thanks

[Cheib]

Ed.Neumann said:

Residuals on a £100,000 Taycan are around £45k over 48 months.

So with £10k down you will pay £33,000 in interest over the period and have to find another £45k if you want to keep it.
Or if you hand the keys back it will have cost you £74,000 to rent it over the 4 years.

Therefore if you pay cash you will need the car to be worth less than £12k to be worse off than using their finance.

Bit confused.

If you put £10k down and you're paying £33k in interest doesn't that mean it's costing you £43k to run the car for 4 years ? Assuming you hand back the keys and walk away ?

You say above it will costs £74k to hand the keys back ? Where does that come from. £33k interest + £10k deposit + £31k ?


Not up to speed on PCP's

[garystoybox]

Cheib said:

Ed.Neumann said:

Residuals on a £100,000 Taycan are around £45k over 48 months.

So with £10k down you will pay £33,000 in interest over the period and have to find another £45k if you want to keep it.
Or if you hand the keys back it will have cost you £74,000 to rent it over the 4 years.

Therefore if you pay cash you will need the car to be worth less than £12k to be worse off than using their finance.

Bit confused.

If you put £10k down and you're paying £33k in interest doesn't that mean it's costing you £43k to run the car for 4 years ? Assuming you hand back the keys and walk away ?

You say above it will costs £74k to hand the keys back ? Where does that come from. £33k interest + £10k deposit + £31k ?


Not up to speed on PCP's

Ed’s just included the capital payments made over the 36 months but not illustrated this. He’s correct though, PCP’s at anything but heavily subsidised apr’s are eye watering. Hence car companies now make more money on finance than selling cars ie. They are really Banks with a side line in manufacturing.

[Ed.Neumann]

Cheib said:

Bit confused.

If you put £10k down and you're paying £33k in interest doesn't that mean it's costing you £43k to run the car for 4 years ? Assuming you hand back the keys and walk away ?

You say above it will costs £74k to hand the keys back ? Where does that come from. £33k interest + £10k deposit + £31k ?


Not up to speed on PCP's

No, because you need to pay Porsche the £55,000 that they think it will depreciate over the 4 years too.



Car is £100,000 less deposit you are borrowing £90,000.

However, £45k of that is the final payment due.

So, at 11.9% apr it is costing you £1630 a month, so actually £78,000 over the 4 years. Out of that £78,000, £33,000 of it is the interest on the monies borrowed.

Oh, and forgot the deposit, so £88,000 over 4 years.


People tend not do the maths as when you say it out loud it is not all that appealing.

PCP make sense when residuals are high and interest rates are low. The problem is, 90% of buyers have got into them while that was the case and when you combine that with the fact manufacturers also priced cars based on "monthlies" while interest rates were low and residuals high we are now where we are.

PCP now makes no sense whatsoever financially, but how many have a spare £100,000 to buy a car? And how many of those are happy to know that they will lose 55-65% of it over 4 years?

A £100,000 Taycan is going to cost you somewhere between £1600-2600 a month depending on how long you keep it with residuals where they are at with them.

[tomvcarter]

Maybe its just my wishful thinking, but it feels to me like the EV crash right now is a bit hysterical, sure right now things are not looking great for EVs but longer term EVs will dominate. It feels like the future residuals we are being quoted are also driven by this hysteria, so at their very worst right now.

As we know, there is a glut of EVs coming on to the market right now as all the 2021/2 cars come out of their finance deals, having been oversold during the initial EV hype. The high current interest rates are driving the scary depreciation as people cant afford the to buy or keep them.

However, all the bad press around EVs is only amplifying it all. Everyone in an EV is freaking out and trying to get out too. This will also means people are afraid to buy new new EVs.

However in 3/4 years, i expect interest rates to be lower than they are now, EV infrastructure will be better than it is now, and as fossil fuels are not the long term answer; we should see EVs return to favour.

Soooo... the terrible residuals we are seeing for EVs (indicated by PCP balloons) might not be the reality in 3/4 years time.

[cseven]

tomvcarter said:

Maybe its just my wishful thinking, but it feels to me like the EV crash right now is a bit hysterical, sure right now things are not looking great for EVs but longer term EVs will dominate. It feels like the future residuals we are being quoted are also driven by this hysteria, so at their very worst right now.

As we know, there is a glut of EVs coming on to the market right now as all the 2021/2 cars come out of their finance deals, having been oversold during the initial EV hype. The high current interest rates are driving the scary depreciation as people cant afford the to buy or keep them.

However, all the bad press around EVs is only amplifying it all. Everyone in an EV is freaking out and trying to get out too. This will also means people are afraid to buy new new EVs.

However in 3/4 years, i expect interest rates to be lower than they are now, EV infrastructure will be better than it is now, and as fossil fuels are not the long term answer; we should see EVs return to favour.

Soooo... the terrible residuals we are seeing for EVs (indicated by PCP balloons) might not be the reality in 3/4 years time.

I think EV values simply reflect the speed of progress in play for the sector i.e. in 3 yrs the game will of massively moved on again re tech so there is a huge negative impact on RV until the tech and ,market is more mature.

[Cobnapint]

cseven said:

I think EV values simply reflect the speed of progress in play for the sector i.e. in 3 yrs the game will of massively moved on again re tech so there is a huge negative impact on RV until the tech and ,market is more mature.

I agree. It seems that every new EV announcement hails the arrival of a new and improved three-lettered EV platform that is superseding a different (and now inadequate) three-lettered EV platform that was already new and improved just 12 months previous.

Then there's incremental improvements in battery density, and motor design efficiency.

It's none stop.

[AMVSVNick]

Cobnapint said:

Then there's incremental improvements in battery density.

Which you will be able to pop in your existing EV when the time comes.

[Discombobulate]

Cobnapint said:

I agree. It seems that every new EV announcement hails the arrival of a new and improved three-lettered EV platform that is superseding a different (and now inadequate) three-lettered EV platform that was already new and improved just 12 months previous.

Then there's incremental improvements in battery density, and motor design efficiency.

It's none stop.

Like the tech in my ICE - albeit not all of it an advance in my opinion....

[Frankychops]

EvoSid said:

simon800 said:

Hi Guys, new to this thread and keen on advice from those in the know!



So I've landed on a Taycan as something that will offer supercar looks, but every day practicality. Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me.

Hi sorry and genuinely not being funny but what do you mean when you say "Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me."

I cant get my head round how it is free if you own the ltd company.
Am i missing a trick by buying car privately even though I have my own ltd company ?

Taycan and supercar looks? not really.

[andymc]

EvoSid said:

simon800 said:

Hi Guys, new to this thread and keen on advice from those in the know!



So I've landed on a Taycan as something that will offer supercar looks, but every day practicality. Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me.

Hi sorry and genuinely not being funny but what do you mean when you say "Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me."

I cant get my head round how it is free if you own the ltd company.
Am i missing a trick by buying car privately even though I have my own ltd company ?

Sid, what are the benefits for the corp tax? Speak to me like you would a Golden Retreiver

[theboss]

andymc said:

EvoSid said:

simon800 said:

Hi Guys, new to this thread and keen on advice from those in the know!



So I've landed on a Taycan as something that will offer supercar looks, but every day practicality. Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me.

Hi sorry and genuinely not being funny but what do you mean when you say "Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me."

I cant get my head round how it is free if you own the ltd company.
Am i missing a trick by buying car privately even though I have my own ltd company ?

Sid, what are the benefits for the corp tax? Speak to me like you would a Golden Retreiver

Company money is worth a lot less than personal money, with the difference depending on your marginal tax rate.

£100k of pre-taxed profit in my business account currently converts to about £46k in my pocket.

If the company buys an ev with that money instead, you get the value of a '£100k' car near enough tax free, save for the BIK liability arising which is currently set at 2% of list price and will rise gradually by 1% over coming years.

The company also pays for insurance, servicing, tyres etc. without incurring any further tax charges.

Anyone with the option to buy an EV through an owned company or employer choosing to do so personally instead, needs their head examining.

[andymc]

theboss said:

andymc said:

EvoSid said:

simon800 said:

Hi Guys, new to this thread and keen on advice from those in the know!



So I've landed on a Taycan as something that will offer supercar looks, but every day practicality. Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me.

Hi sorry and genuinely not being funny but what do you mean when you say "Plus the added bonus I can stick it through my ltd company so it's "free" to me."

I cant get my head round how it is free if you own the ltd company.
Am i missing a trick by buying car privately even though I have my own ltd company ?

Sid, what are the benefits for the corp tax? Speak to me like you would a Golden Retreiver

Company money is worth a lot less than personal money, with the difference depending on your marginal tax rate.

£100k of pre-taxed profit in my business account currently converts to about £46k in my pocket.

If the company buys an ev with that money instead, you get the value of a '£100k' car near enough tax free, save for the BIK liability arising which is currently set at 2% of list price and will rise gradually by 1% over coming years.

The company also pays for insurance, servicing, tyres etc. without incurring any further tax charges.

Anyone with the option to buy an EV through an owned company or employer choosing to do so personally instead, needs their head examining.

cheers

[SV_WDC]

tomvcarter said:

Maybe its just my wishful thinking, but it feels to me like the EV crash right now is a bit hysterical, sure right now things are not looking great for EVs but longer term EVs will dominate. It feels like the future residuals we are being quoted are also driven by this hysteria, so at their very worst right now.

As we know, there is a glut of EVs coming on to the market right now as all the 2021/2 cars come out of their finance deals, having been oversold during the initial EV hype. The high current interest rates are driving the scary depreciation as people cant afford the to buy or keep them.

However, all the bad press around EVs is only amplifying it all. Everyone in an EV is freaking out and trying to get out too. This will also means people are afraid to buy new new EVs.

However in 3/4 years, i expect interest rates to be lower than they are now, EV infrastructure will be better than it is now, and as fossil fuels are not the long term answer; we should see EVs return to favour.

Soooo... the terrible residuals we are seeing for EVs (indicated by PCP balloons) might not be the reality in 3/4 years time.

EV only really becomes viable mainstream when OEM's adopt a process similar to Nio which uses plug & play batteries. You drive into a refuelling station, they rip out the existing depleted battery & swap with a fully charged one.

This model also does away with the concern many buyers in the second hand market have around battery life/replacement costs, which are eye watering.

The government is building nowhere near enough charging points at the pace needed. Left to the private market it still isn't quick enough.

By the time anyone pulls their finger out carbon neutral/e-fuels will probably be a thing.

Porsche & Siemens are doing a lot in this area, and anyone looking at what Porsche have been lobbying for with the EU surrounding the future of the combustion engine will see the future.

I think many consumers are rightly sceptical when they look at the way diesels have been handled.