Discussion
flatlandsman said:
I do not really think it is vitriol I think you will find some negative stuff but I have tried to balance out the downsides about eh accident with some stuff I will always remember, he gave so many people so much joy, and he was also universally liked apart from maybe in Spain when he was Carlos's team mate and going against him but those two were firm friends even then.
His kind do not come around that often, I can only hope to imagine what he would have been like in the 70's and early 80's! Imagine him in an RS200 or a 205 or Delta!!
I agree. Its not vitriol. Its passionless, provable facts! His kind do not come around that often, I can only hope to imagine what he would have been like in the 70's and early 80's! Imagine him in an RS200 or a 205 or Delta!!
But it seems some posters are happy to ignore the deaths and his culpability in them because he could pedal really well. Thats up to them.
I feel for the family of the child that had ZERO idea their son was even on the damn thing! For me. That over rules the rally results 100%
As for McRae in Group B. We'll never know of course, but honestly, with his all or nothing I think he'd have died in a spectacular accident. Cars were far less strong back then. And as others have pointed out, he simply couldn't back off even when he didnt need to push
BunkMoreland said:
Its not vitriol. Its passionless, provable facts!
That's plain BS, anyone can read the emotion-laden posts and see they are in no way passionless (and contain a dollop of unprovable speculation too, like your own suggestion that Nicky Grist had doubts about McRae's flying and shouldn't have said anything).The Scottish Court's findings linked earlier in the thread is probably the most balanced and unemotional summary I've read of the accident and surrounding circumstances. It also gives some context to the lapsed licence.
Some people seem to see things extremely black and white, like McRae's mistakes resulting in a tragic and fatal accident were so bad that none of his positive attributes and achievements can ever be acknowledged or respected. Others of us have a more balanced view, acknowledging the tragic end while still appreciating the good things.
Edited by GravelBen on Thursday 18th January 00:41
GravelBen said:
Others of us have a more balanced view, acknowledging the tragic end while still appreciating the good things.
I - and, it seems, many others - am unable to square being a fantastic driver with being responsible for killing children. It isn't 'balanced' in any way. The scale of his final actions is so far beyond acceptable as to be unforgivable and reputationally final. It's like saying Jimmy Saville was a great DJ and charity fund raiser, pity about the kiddy fiddling though.flatlandsman said:
There are others that stay with you, Depailler in the wet at Montreal, Estre at the Ring a few years back, Sabine on slicks in the wet a bit earlier, and a few other rally ones.
Not to do Sabine any form of disservice, but that clip of her at the ‘ring I presume you’re on about-she is about the only driver on WETS, while everyone around her was on slicks.She took a gamble on tyres and it massively payed off, it’s a superb video but one that proves the old adage of being on the right tyres at the right time.
Tony1963 said:
Agreed, but there's more to it as a spectator than outright speed. As with F1, I'd rather watch almost any era of racing before anything since the beginning of 2014.
Perhaps as motorsport ages it loses something. There are fairly regular road cars with more power than any current BTCC or WRC car, and quite a few hypercars with more power than any F1 car... it's a strange old world, and I'm not a happy (former) spectator.
Perhaps as motorsport ages it loses something. There are fairly regular road cars with more power than any current BTCC or WRC car, and quite a few hypercars with more power than any F1 car... it's a strange old world, and I'm not a happy (former) spectator.
Oh sure - but bhp headlines never tell the full story except on clckbait nonsense . I've seen sundry hypercars and the like on track I've yet to be impressed by their pace. Buy a Chiron for 2 million quid and wonder which way a third hand F3 car went .... I've seen Time Attack cars boasting of 1000bhp - brisk yes , but not even 200 odd bhp F Renault quick .
I went to see live F1 a couple of years ago after a long absence and guess what? It was bloody terrific and you'd have to be a very grumpy old sod indeed not to have been thrilled by watching a Norris or a Verstappen turing into Copse at 185mph . It was fabulous. The sport changes but we change even more as we age - I should know, its 53 years since I first went to a GP.
Voldemort said:
I - and, it seems, many others - am unable to square being a fantastic driver with being responsible for killing children. It isn't 'balanced' in any way. The scale of his final actions is so far beyond acceptable as to be unforgivable and reputationally final. It's like saying Jimmy Saville was a great DJ and charity fund raiser, pity about the kiddy fiddling though.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, though your analogy is ridiculous unless you think Saville abused all those children accidentally or McRae deliberately crashed his helicopter with the intention of killing children. Presumably you believe that if you yourself were ever to make a mistake or misjudgement (or the cumulative effect of several smaller misjudgements) resulting in children accidentally dying, you should never be remembered for anything except being responsible for killing children, and people on the internet should compare you with Jimmy Saville. If you apply that to others but not yourself, then you're just a hypocrite.
GravelBen said:
Voldemort said:
I - and, it seems, many others - am unable to square being a fantastic driver with being responsible for killing children. It isn't 'balanced' in any way. The scale of his final actions is so far beyond acceptable as to be unforgivable and reputationally final. It's like saying Jimmy Saville was a great DJ and charity fund raiser, pity about the kiddy fiddling though.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, though your analogy is ridiculous unless you think Saville abused all those children accidentally or McRae deliberately crashed his helicopter with the intention of killing children. Presumably you believe that if you yourself were ever to make a mistake or misjudgement (or the cumulative effect of several smaller misjudgements) resulting in children accidentally dying, you should never be remembered for anything except being responsible for killing children, and people on the internet should compare you with Jimmy Saville. If you apply that to others but not yourself, then you're just a hypocrite.
There are accidents and there are negligent actions. His was very much the latter. He deliberately took a child without parental consent into a helicopter he was not qualified to fly, flew it like a dick, and killed that child and his own and himself.
I am - as you say - entitled to my opinion. And that is it.
flatlandsman said:
Please be careful with your facts, Colin was entirely qualified to fly the aircraft he was in, the simple fact was he had not renewed his licence, a stupid mistake, but he was more than qualified to pilot it. please be careful what you write here.
AAIB said:
At the time of the accident, the pilot did not hold a valid
flying licence, or a valid AS350B2 type rating
AAIB Bulletin 2/2009flying licence, or a valid AS350B2 type rating
fyi Page 19 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/542...
Feel free to read the whole thing. There is a photo on P3 showing where the aircraft impacted the tree. I stand by what I said.
He had both, they were just not renewed, if you are going to post stuff, please post all of it, he also had over 900 hours I think flying the machine I read in the same report. The lack of renewal is an oversight and a stupid thing to do but to claim he was unable to fly that machine is simply utterly wrong.
Please at least try and be transparent.
Please at least try and be transparent.
Voldemort said:
I - and, it seems, many others - am unable to square being a fantastic driver with being responsible for killing children. It isn't 'balanced' in any way. The scale of his final actions is so far beyond acceptable as to be unforgivable and reputationally final. It's like saying Jimmy Saville was a great DJ and charity fund raiser, pity about the kiddy fiddling though.
To compare McRae to Jimmy Saville is just beyond absurd.So much for balanced viewpoints.....
GravelBen said:
... Others of us have a more balanced view, acknowledging the tragic end while still appreciating the good things...
Thank goodness you're here to tell us our opinions are not good enough and should be more "balanced" to basically mirror yours and everyone counter is wrong. 
I assume had your child been on that helicopter you'd also take the view that "meh, accidents happen. Its not like we should forget he drove a rally car and won the title in 1995" (I'll assume you're obviously clever enough to realise how trite that sounds )
Wouldn't want anyone to be a hypocrite as you say.
I do wonder why people feel the need to defend their heroes when they've f
ked up. Especially when those same heroes wouldn't have given a st about them when they were alive. 
I would actually sort of understand if close family or friends did it. But people who never met that person in private baffle meI guess I just don't subscribe to the "celebrities are wonderful and must be white knighted for" mindset. Many a fallen celeb should imo be forgotten and never spoken of again.
Tony1963 said:
I wonder if those here with a holier than thou attitude will be refusing to ever fly on a Boeing airliner.
I genuinely fail to see the link there. If you're referring to the MCAS problem. (that led to 2 crashes) It's not like the pilots were deliberately f
king around that led to this problem. Conversely do you blame Andreas Lubitz who deliberately flew his German Wings plane into a mountain? Direct actions by the pilot led to the deaths of innocent parties. What about Andy Hill at the Shoreham air show in 2015? Direct actions by the pilot led to the deaths of innocent parties.
flatlandsman said:
The question has to asked, if you had the choice would you with your family choose a 777 over anything else if you could pick 2 or 3?
I'm booked to go on 2 Boeing 787s in a few weeks time. (out and back) At no point have I considered changing or investigating the options to change flights to an Airbus product.Edited by BunkMoreland on Thursday 18th January 21:41
flatlandsman said:
He had both, they were just not renewed, if you are going to post stuff, please post all of it, he also had over 900 hours I think flying the machine I read in the same report. The lack of renewal is an oversight and a stupid thing to do but to claim he was unable to fly that machine is simply utterly wrong.
Please at least try and be transparent.
So he had over 900 hours on that machine but still managed to crash it killing everyone on board.Crashed because he was flying like a dick.Please at least try and be transparent.
If in doubt flat out eh? It’s ok because he was a rally legend?
He was a
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