RE: INEOS Grenadier officially unveiled
Discussion
dhutch said:
C Lee Farquar said:
But is the Grenadier story any less palatable than Indians taking millions in Government subsidies to prop up their ailing business, and then moving the Defender production from Solihull to Slovakia?
Absolutely not. But plenty don't like the Defender either! I guess the typical buyer these days couldn't give a toss about the lineage of the type or heritage of the brand, so having an Indian company build their cars in Slovakia is kind of moot.
The Grenadier was originally touted as being British through and through, and now it isn't because reasons, and that bothers some people who wouldn't have bought one anyway.
All I want is a LWB 5-door Suzuki Jiimny. Would beat the others hands-down as a sports-utility in the real sense of the words. Probably half the price too.
LimaDelta said:
NomduJour said:
Five- door Jimny is coming soon - still not going to be any real use.
I'd love one. Are they selling them in the UK though, or are they going to do the same as the 3-door and tease us with half a dozen for the whole country?jeremy996 said:
LimaDelta said:
NomduJour said:
Five- door Jimny is coming soon - still not going to be any real use.
I'd love one. Are they selling them in the UK though, or are they going to do the same as the 3-door and tease us with half a dozen for the whole country?But the little Jimny is about 178 co2 on WLTP whereas the 3.0 Litre D250 Defender 110 is 218 co2 by the same metric. I appreciate this doesn’t show the whole picture but they dropped the ball putting that engine in the Suzuki. The Grenadier is 276/318 in the 3.0 diesel so again another missed opportunity.
LimaDelta said:
It's crazy that a small engined, light vehicle is legislated against, yet the much bigger SUVs are fine. I really hope they bring it, even as a BEV only option.
It's all relative. The Jimny may be a small engined , light vehicle but they chose to make it more polluting than a small engined, light vehicle should be. It's a brilliant little car but 100% of the blame lies very firmly on the shoulders of Suzuki. They made the decision to not make their product compliant.
Same with Ineos, they have designed their product from the absolute outset to emit the level of pollution that it will be taxed on.
Both firms sat down, looked at the legislation and made clear choices as to where to beat place their product for the customers and use they aim to serve.
Mikebentley said:
But the little Jimny is about 178 co2 on WLTP whereas the 3.0 Litre D250 Defender 110 is 218 co2 by the same metric. I appreciate this doesn’t show the whole picture but they dropped the ball putting that engine in the Suzuki. The Grenadier is 276/318 in the 3.0 diesel so again another missed opportunity.
I'm surprised that Ineos didn't use a turbo 4 pot to get better numbers. The BMW I6 is a simply brilliant engine but in NA form and trying to push a giant box it always looked destined to deliver some nasty numbers. It would be interesting to learn more about the engine choice as it must have actually been quite hard to try and marry global legislation with something that has the right power and performance for a two ton brick.
In some ways, I'm surprised they didn't just go LS as global servicing would have been easier, the numbers wouldn't have been worse and it probably would have been cheaper?
Like it or don’t but if they had put the right engine in the Jimny they could still be selling them as fast as they could make them. I would have bought one but the gearing and engine and hence fuel economy are awful. That’s why I run a Duster 999cc LPG for work. My 110 new Defender is for family duties.
Back to the Ineos they really cocked up not getting the C02 levels down. It’s got the looks some want and will clearly be capable (concept tested previously for 50yrs). Why though have they placed it with some of the most polluting vehicles? Is this down to the drivetrain they were able to source and it’s application?
Back to the Ineos they really cocked up not getting the C02 levels down. It’s got the looks some want and will clearly be capable (concept tested previously for 50yrs). Why though have they placed it with some of the most polluting vehicles? Is this down to the drivetrain they were able to source and it’s application?
Suspect the diesel options weren't as attractive as BMW's.
No such luck for me.Mikebentley said:
Like it or don’t but if they had put the right engine in the Jimny they could still be selling them as fast as they could make them. I would have bought one but the gearing and engine and hence fuel economy are awful. That’s why I run a Duster 999cc LPG for work. My 110 new Defender is for family duties.
Back to the Ineos they really cocked up not getting the C02 levels down. It’s got the looks some want and will clearly be capable (concept tested previously for 50yrs). Why though have they placed it with some of the most polluting vehicles? Is this down to the drivetrain they were able to source and it’s application?
I suspect Suzuki can't really be arsed with the U.K. market, even Europe and decided to favour 'rear of world' to get the volume to keep costs down?Back to the Ineos they really cocked up not getting the C02 levels down. It’s got the looks some want and will clearly be capable (concept tested previously for 50yrs). Why though have they placed it with some of the most polluting vehicles? Is this down to the drivetrain they were able to source and it’s application?
I think you're right that they would have sold a lot more but making the entire product compliant just for a small market probably didn't make sense.
Ineos must have their reasons for what they chose. I still think they must be mainly targeting developing nation sales using developed nation's budgets. Ie NGOs and industry for the cornerstone of their volume?
I like you suspect that’s the reason. Both Ineos and Suzuki likely see the UK as a niche market and are looking at the bigger picture and bigger volumes elsewhere. Ineos is also likely looking at markets where emissions is less of a concern and charities are spending other peoples money.
DonkeyApple said:
I still think they must be mainly targeting developing nation sales using developed nation's budgets. Ie NGOs and industry for the cornerstone of their volume?
Which NGO is or Industry is this? The mining industry in Australia require a 5 star ANCAP rating which the Grenadier does not have. If you are playing the idea of countries outside of UK who are their market then which country do you mean specifically?
This is a 4x4 designed to appeal to people wanting to buy a Ye olde defender but couldn't.
There have been some orders for these by UK punters and a few in Aussie/US/Canada/Europe who are fans of all British things which I understand. But this is a niche within a niche. You are competing with Land Rover restomods. You are in the same segment as people who buy a RAM 3500 dually in the UK, its a statement rather than a growing market.
Mikebentley said:
I was thinking more along the lines of Africa, India etc but suspect it is too costly a proposition even there. I could see the Jimny selling there though as it’s cheap.
As you alluded to earlier, the key lies in using in poor countries but paying with other peoples' money. The sheer waste by countless NGOs and all their procurement teams swanning around European tax havens does suggest a market. sisu said:
DonkeyApple said:
I still think they must be mainly targeting developing nation sales using developed nation's budgets. Ie NGOs and industry for the cornerstone of their volume?
Which NGO is or Industry is this? The mining industry in Australia require a 5 star ANCAP rating which the Grenadier does not have. If you are playing the idea of countries outside of UK who are their market then which country do you mean specifically?
This is a 4x4 designed to appeal to people wanting to buy a Ye olde defender but couldn't.
There have been some orders for these by UK punters and a few in Aussie/US/Canada/Europe who are fans of all British things which I understand. But this is a niche within a niche. You are competing with Land Rover restomods. You are in the same segment as people who buy a RAM 3500 dually in the UK, its a statement rather than a growing market.
DonkeyApple said:
sisu said:
DonkeyApple said:
I still think they must be mainly targeting developing nation sales using developed nation's budgets. Ie NGOs and industry for the cornerstone of their volume?
Which NGO is or Industry is this? The mining industry in Australia require a 5 star ANCAP rating which the Grenadier does not have. If you are playing the idea of countries outside of UK who are their market then which country do you mean specifically?
This is a 4x4 designed to appeal to people wanting to buy a Ye olde defender but couldn't.
There have been some orders for these by UK punters and a few in Aussie/US/Canada/Europe who are fans of all British things which I understand. But this is a niche within a niche. You are competing with Land Rover restomods. You are in the same segment as people who buy a RAM 3500 dually in the UK, its a statement rather than a growing market.
Apparently we're getting toilet paper next year.
DonkeyApple said:
Mikebentley said:
I was thinking more along the lines of Africa, India etc but suspect it is too costly a proposition even there. I could see the Jimny selling there though as it’s cheap.
As you alluded to earlier, the key lies in using in poor countries but paying with other peoples' money. The sheer waste by countless NGOs and all their procurement teams swanning around European tax havens does suggest a market. Gassing Station | INEOS | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff