RE: INEOS Grenadier prototype | PH Review
Discussion
I think this is an objectively unpleasant looking vehicle. Look at those windows, and complete lack of cohesion from one to the next! The first two vaguely line up, then the rear most one has a completely different shape, and the rear ones are totally different again?!
Those circular rear lights are completely at odds with the rest of the car, they look like they've been stolen from a 90's Nissan Skyline.
The 'alpine windows' grab bars are a terrible pastiche of the LR equivalent too.
Whats the point in that bit if trim under the rearmost side window? And there's a weird sub-flush section in the rear quarter panel? So odd.
Andeh1 said:
If they were pitching it for 30% less, then ok that makes sense
If my understanding is correct then for a business purchaser (or purchaser with a business) the 5 seat utility will be a commercial vehicle, VAT reclaimable and 100% offset against tax.I don't believe this is possible with the new Defender or Discovery with 5 seats. In fact I don't think you can claim the VAT back on the 110 SW (unlike the previous model) as it has insufficient payload.
shalmaneser said:
I think this is an objectively unpleasant looking vehicle. Look at those windows, and complete lack of cohesion from one to the next! The first two vaguely line up, then the rear most one has a completely different shape, and the rear ones are totally different again?!
Those circular rear lights are completely at odds with the rest of the car, they look like they've been stolen from a 90's Nissan Skyline.
The 'alpine windows' grab bars are a terrible pastiche of the LR equivalent too.
Whats the point in that bit if trim under the rearmost side window? And there's a weird sub-flush section in the rear quarter panel? So odd.
I looked round it at Goodwood, and was shocked to see just how ugly it is in person.Those circular rear lights are completely at odds with the rest of the car, they look like they've been stolen from a 90's Nissan Skyline.
The 'alpine windows' grab bars are a terrible pastiche of the LR equivalent too.
Whats the point in that bit if trim under the rearmost side window? And there's a weird sub-flush section in the rear quarter panel? So odd.
As you say, they have attached accessories and weird bits of trim to every panel they could find, and the whole thing looks a complete mess. There is just so much 'stuff' everywhere. The design is a real mess. Even that front grill with the extra inset high beam lights is incredibly ugly.
Worse than that, is the proportions. They have taken an original Defender shape, cut it in half, and widened it by around 30cm. It messes with your brain. You think you are looking at a Defender, but just a really wide one...
shalmaneser said:
I think this is an objectively unpleasant looking vehicle. Look at those windows, and complete lack of cohesion from one to the next! The first two vaguely line up, then the rear most one has a completely different shape, and the rear ones are totally different again?!
Those circular rear lights are completely at odds with the rest of the car, they look like they've been stolen from a 90's Nissan Skyline.
The 'alpine windows' grab bars are a terrible pastiche of the LR equivalent too.
Whats the point in that bit if trim under the rearmost side window? And there's a weird sub-flush section in the rear quarter panel? So odd.
You forgive the Land Rover as you can see where your extra £15,000 has gone. Well with the Bronco you can also opt for the convertible and door less Mehari spec 4x4.
The Grenadier is more the whispy beard upmarket Dacia owner
shalmaneser said:
I think this is an objectively unpleasant looking vehicle. Look at those windows, and complete lack of cohesion from one to the next! The first two vaguely line up, then the rear most one has a completely different shape, and the rear ones are totally different again?!
Those circular rear lights are completely at odds with the rest of the car, they look like they've been stolen from a 90's Nissan Skyline.
The 'alpine windows' grab bars are a terrible pastiche of the LR equivalent too.
Whats the point in that bit if trim under the rearmost side window? And there's a weird sub-flush section in the rear quarter panel? So odd.
The A pillar should be black to match all the windows and the door window profiles don't line upn with the rear window.
The coloured square hides most of this but the commercials don't have it (or even any holes to mount it) and I can't decide whether they look better or worse.
leef44 said:
That's an interesting point. However I'm with covmutley on this one. You see this on the Toyota Supra, the Morgan and now this. For BMW it is branding. For the driver, it is a reminder that you haven't really got a Toyota, Morgan or Ineos. And you keep getting reminded every time you look at the gear lever.
Of course you are getting a Toyota, Morgan, or Ineos. The supplier of the gearlever does not define the car, nor does the engine. Do the Citroen mirrors on an XJ220 remind you that it's not a Jaguar, or the Fiesta tail lights make a Chimaera a Ford? Or does the BMW engine make the F1 not a McLaren?Morgan haven't developed an engine for themselves in centuries, Toyota farm many out to Yamaha etc.
R400TVR said:
leef44 said:
That's an interesting point. However I'm with covmutley on this one. You see this on the Toyota Supra, the Morgan and now this. For BMW it is branding. For the driver, it is a reminder that you haven't really got a Toyota, Morgan or Ineos. And you keep getting reminded every time you look at the gear lever.
Of course you are getting a Toyota, Morgan, or Ineos. The supplier of the gearlever does not define the car, nor does the engine. Do the Citroen mirrors on an XJ220 remind you that it's not a Jaguar, or the Fiesta tail lights make a Chimaera a Ford? Or does the BMW engine make the F1 not a McLaren?Morgan haven't developed an engine for themselves in centuries, Toyota farm many out to Yamaha etc.
There is that constant reminder as you drive the car which detracts from the experience which the marketing team are trying to get you to pay for.
t marketing story of the “idea in a pub”? Seriously?legless said:
I'm very interested to see how this actually sells.
The main reason why Land Rover don't build anything like this any more is simply because whichever way the product planners looked at it, the business case just didn't stack up. There was no profit in engineering and building a car on a unique platform in a market that's been gradually shrinking for decades, especially when that market is all but sewn up in most parts of the world by established players.
That's even before considering EU fleet-wide CO2 legislation - there's not a hope that this thing (as engineered now) will be able to meet targets after 2028 when the niche manufacturer derogations cease.
Mercedes and Jeep have done it, no reason that LR couldn't. Perhaps they realised that their products are not that great, and that they've got too many competing vehicles in a crowded market.The main reason why Land Rover don't build anything like this any more is simply because whichever way the product planners looked at it, the business case just didn't stack up. There was no profit in engineering and building a car on a unique platform in a market that's been gradually shrinking for decades, especially when that market is all but sewn up in most parts of the world by established players.
That's even before considering EU fleet-wide CO2 legislation - there's not a hope that this thing (as engineered now) will be able to meet targets after 2028 when the niche manufacturer derogations cease.
Merc have done it by shifting the G wagon into the 1% milf school run taxi bus.
With a starting price of £108,880 for the base model, couple that with all the other categories of cars and SUVs Merc sells, they can afford to have it as a niche model.
Jeep sell nearly 800k of cars in the USA across its model range.
JLR sold just under 420k cars globally in 2021.
They can’t compete with the stack then high and sell cheap of Jeep in the USA as they can’t do the volumes needed to make it work.
If they went the G route of being very expensive, then everyone would moan at them losing their way.
Having actually driven the new defender and being on a couple of the fb pages, it’s amusing to see owners use the cars for all things that the detractors claimed they wouldn’t be used for.
Will this thing sink or swim in the market?
Who knows.
Personally, I don’t care for it.
With a starting price of £108,880 for the base model, couple that with all the other categories of cars and SUVs Merc sells, they can afford to have it as a niche model.
Jeep sell nearly 800k of cars in the USA across its model range.
JLR sold just under 420k cars globally in 2021.
They can’t compete with the stack then high and sell cheap of Jeep in the USA as they can’t do the volumes needed to make it work.
If they went the G route of being very expensive, then everyone would moan at them losing their way.
Having actually driven the new defender and being on a couple of the fb pages, it’s amusing to see owners use the cars for all things that the detractors claimed they wouldn’t be used for.
Will this thing sink or swim in the market?
Who knows.
Personally, I don’t care for it.
petemurphy said:
sat in one today - really liked it but theyve put a foot rest in so i cant stretch out my left leg so thats a no from me. no space in the back either
I have now had a couple of hours driving one and the "foot rest" was not an issue. The space in the back depends on whether it is a "Commercial" or a Belstaff edition, which have 7.5cm more rear space.My issue is the wait is getting too long, originally September 2022, now looking like March 2023.
soxboy said:
I don’t get why they make the front bumper so big as standard (if it’s going to be needed to be used as a step, then fair enough, but make it a dealer-fit option).
Otherwise it looks to me like a 1970s US-spec BMW or Mercedes.
My mate went to a demo day before Xmas and sent me some photos, some allowed and some not so. I asked the same and he was told it is to fit the winch and cable that comes as standard. Otherwise it looks to me like a 1970s US-spec BMW or Mercedes.
Not my cup of tea really but he is a LR Defender enthusiast and was really impressed with its ability esp off road.
NomduJour said:
ric p said:
I asked the same and he was told it is to fit the winch and cable that comes as standard.
A winch is is four and a half grand extra - you can spend a lot if you go full Walt-spec.My mate, ex-LR, did that bit and reckons they are definitely not just for decoration.
soxboy said:
I don’t get why they make the front bumper so big as standard (if it’s going to be needed to be used as a step, then fair enough, but make it a dealer-fit option).
Otherwise it looks to me like a 1970s US-spec BMW or Mercedes.
I imagine most people would be shocked to find out these are new. They just look so old and I can't shake the feeling that the only people they really appeal to are those that want "to go back to how things used to be". Whilst there might well be plenty of people with that view, I'm not convinced enough of them will be willing to spend this kind of money to make this vehicle a success. Time will tell I suppose.Otherwise it looks to me like a 1970s US-spec BMW or Mercedes.
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