Discussion
Steffan said:
I am old enough to have built a Ford Falcon in 1962 from an old Ford Popular with the side valve E93A engine. The standard of build then was woefully inadequate (including mine) and over the years this has improved to the point today where I think Kit Cars are really very well finished.
I had one of them, bought it as an unfinished project in the early 70's it was registered on an H reg, tried to get it together failed, scrapped it....Wonder if it ever got completed....
Re Den T, I had a brief dealing with him and his mag when he asked me to review some mag articles, he was civil, enthusiastic and pleasant to deal with.
One problem with the kit car industry now is simply price. A kit car usually costs more to build than a s/h BMW Z3, Z4, Lotus Elise etc etc
Whilst I fully appreciate the fun in building your own, individual car, there a lot of peole out there that just want to drive. In the 60's/70's there were Lotus Elan/Europa component cars that "you could build in a weekend" also the Clan etc
(I have built a Caterham, owned a Lotus 7, an Elan and a Clan BTW)
Skyedriver said:
Steffan said:
I am old enough to have built a Ford Falcon in 1962 from an old Ford Popular with the side valve E93A engine. The standard of build then was woefully inadequate (including mine) and over the years this has improved to the point today where I think Kit Cars are really very well finished.
I had one of them, bought it as an unfinished project in the early 70's it was registered on an H reg, tried to get it together failed, scrapped it....Wonder if it ever got completed....
Re Den T, I had a brief dealing with him and his mag when he asked me to review some mag articles, he was civil, enthusiastic and pleasant to deal with.
One problem with the kit car industry now is simply price. A kit car usually costs more to build than a s/h BMW Z3, Z4, Lotus Elise etc etc
Whilst I fully appreciate the fun in building your own, individual car, there a lot of peole out there that just want to drive. In the 60's/70's there were Lotus Elan/Europa component cars that "you could build in a weekend" also the Clan etc
(I have built a Caterham, owned a Lotus 7, an Elan and a Clan BTW)
I think there will be a resurgence of interest in the MEVX5 type of vehicle and Stuart Mills has to be congratulated on an excellent, economic, simple, one donor design.
There are so many advantages in the one donor no IVA route that I am surprised anyone goes down the IVA route.
A great deal more work is required with a multi donor car.
Then there are the IVA costs (£460?), chassis costs, sourcing costs, and very probably retest costs and the costs of trailering to the Test Centre and time costs in all directions!!.
May not be the right forum but I can only see the MEVX5 route as the obvious winner.
As a bonus I could put a private plate on and not have the dreaded Q Plate.
Steffan said:
Again I entirely agree.
I think there will be a resurgence of interest in the MEVX5 type of vehicle and Stuart Mills has to be congratulated on an excellent, economic, simple, one donor design.
There are so many advantages in the one donor no IVA route that I am surprised anyone goes down the IVA route.
A great deal more work is required with a multi donor car.
Then there are the IVA costs (£460?), chassis costs, sourcing costs, and very probably retest costs and the costs of trailering to the Test Centre and time costs in all directions!!.
May not be the right forum but I can only see the MEVX5 route as the obvious winner.
As a bonus I could put a private plate on and not have the dreaded Q Plate.
I have no comment on the rest of what you say, although I do wonder whether the Exocet does indeed not need an IVA test, but I feel I ought to point out that where a Q plate is required, a private plate cannot be used.I think there will be a resurgence of interest in the MEVX5 type of vehicle and Stuart Mills has to be congratulated on an excellent, economic, simple, one donor design.
There are so many advantages in the one donor no IVA route that I am surprised anyone goes down the IVA route.
A great deal more work is required with a multi donor car.
Then there are the IVA costs (£460?), chassis costs, sourcing costs, and very probably retest costs and the costs of trailering to the Test Centre and time costs in all directions!!.
May not be the right forum but I can only see the MEVX5 route as the obvious winner.
As a bonus I could put a private plate on and not have the dreaded Q Plate.
Steffan said:
Skyedriver said:
Steffan said:
I am old enough to have built a Ford Falcon in 1962 from an old Ford Popular with the side valve E93A engine. The standard of build then was woefully inadequate (including mine) and over the years this has improved to the point today where I think Kit Cars are really very well finished.
I had one of them, bought it as an unfinished project in the early 70's it was registered on an H reg, tried to get it together failed, scrapped it....Wonder if it ever got completed....
Re Den T, I had a brief dealing with him and his mag when he asked me to review some mag articles, he was civil, enthusiastic and pleasant to deal with.
One problem with the kit car industry now is simply price. A kit car usually costs more to build than a s/h BMW Z3, Z4, Lotus Elise etc etc
Whilst I fully appreciate the fun in building your own, individual car, there a lot of peole out there that just want to drive. In the 60's/70's there were Lotus Elan/Europa component cars that "you could build in a weekend" also the Clan etc
(I have built a Caterham, owned a Lotus 7, an Elan and a Clan BTW)
I think there will be a resurgence of interest in the MEVX5 type of vehicle and Stuart Mills has to be congratulated on an excellent, economic, simple, one donor design.
There are so many advantages in the one donor no IVA route that I am surprised anyone goes down the IVA route.
A great deal more work is required with a multi donor car.
Then there are the IVA costs (£460?), chassis costs, sourcing costs, and very probably retest costs and the costs of trailering to the Test Centre and time costs in all directions!!.
May not be the right forum but I can only see the MEVX5 route as the obvious winner.
As a bonus I could put a private plate on and not have the dreaded Q Plate.
IVA isn't the enemy and bar the cost its a bloody good thing. A retest isn't another £450 and you can drive to the test to no need to trailer etc.
What ever you decide to build you'll end up with better performance than you started with.
People really need to stop all this doom and gloom rubbish and be positive about an area of British manufacturing that's still productive.
Steffan said:
There are so many advantages in the one donor no IVA route that I am surprised anyone goes down the IVA route.
A great deal more work is required with a multi donor car.
I'm surprised your surprised. For many people, the work is part (or all) of the fun of the thing. It's not just about having the finished car. A great deal more work is required with a multi donor car.
I'm glad to hear some positive comments at last from the last two contributions to this thread. It's the easiest thing in the world to talk doom and gloom. These kinds of cars are not there for financial or practical sense, if people only bought cars based on this then we'd be driving Tata Nanos wouldn't we?
It's a shame that another show appears to be biting the dust but that's got to be because it wasn't offering something that people wanted to travel and see sufficiently. I think you'll all agree that what ever it is you are interested in these days the cost of fuel is now a significant factor in deciding weather or not to travel to see an event. There's less money in most folks pockets (unless you're a banker though) so we think longer as to which shows, games, resteraunts, movies etc etc etc that we go and see.
I think Stuart is successful not only because he's building affordable fun kits but he also has a pretty impressive group of enthusiasts / fans, who not only build the cars but also socialise with them too. Why's that? well they are upbeat and positive about things and they don't let obstacles get in their way. To my mind the whole MEV thing is a superb example of what made the Kit Car scene in Britain such a success. I don't think you'll find many MEV owners going round proffering gloom and doom.
So I'm with those here who'd like to do something to improve the general malaise that surrounding some of the Kit Car events and would like to see stuff that's more proactive going on. If anyone out there's got any suggestions as to what they'd like to see being offered for kit car fans to take part in then I'd like to hear that and I'd like to do what ever I can to help make things happen. There's a number of events that we take part in that I'd be very happy to see more people taking part in anything they have built themselves or originated somewhere down the line as a kit / component vehicle, or indeed simply a standard vehicle that's been tweaked to give it some personality.
I recently took part in a one day show with no less than 16,000 people attending it, very much for this kind of like minded enthusiast/owner/driver. The world has moved on so we need to too!
It's a shame that another show appears to be biting the dust but that's got to be because it wasn't offering something that people wanted to travel and see sufficiently. I think you'll all agree that what ever it is you are interested in these days the cost of fuel is now a significant factor in deciding weather or not to travel to see an event. There's less money in most folks pockets (unless you're a banker though) so we think longer as to which shows, games, resteraunts, movies etc etc etc that we go and see.
I think Stuart is successful not only because he's building affordable fun kits but he also has a pretty impressive group of enthusiasts / fans, who not only build the cars but also socialise with them too. Why's that? well they are upbeat and positive about things and they don't let obstacles get in their way. To my mind the whole MEV thing is a superb example of what made the Kit Car scene in Britain such a success. I don't think you'll find many MEV owners going round proffering gloom and doom.
So I'm with those here who'd like to do something to improve the general malaise that surrounding some of the Kit Car events and would like to see stuff that's more proactive going on. If anyone out there's got any suggestions as to what they'd like to see being offered for kit car fans to take part in then I'd like to hear that and I'd like to do what ever I can to help make things happen. There's a number of events that we take part in that I'd be very happy to see more people taking part in anything they have built themselves or originated somewhere down the line as a kit / component vehicle, or indeed simply a standard vehicle that's been tweaked to give it some personality.
I recently took part in a one day show with no less than 16,000 people attending it, very much for this kind of like minded enthusiast/owner/driver. The world has moved on so we need to too!
I always find it strange that you are effectivey charged an entry fee to go shopping at these shows, there has to be more than just manufacturers and retailers. As has already been mentioned different venues might work with track action and more going on to draw in both existing and potential kitcar owners.
singlecoil said:
Steffan said:
Again I entirely agree.
I think there will be a resurgence of interest in the MEVX5 type of vehicle and Stuart Mills has to be congratulated on an excellent, economic, simple, one donor design.
There are so many advantages in the one donor no IVA route that I am surprised anyone goes down the IVA route.
A great deal more work is required with a multi donor car.
Then there are the IVA costs (£460?), chassis costs, sourcing costs, and very probably retest costs and the costs of trailering to the Test Centre and time costs in all directions!!.
May not be the right forum but I can only see the MEVX5 route as the obvious winner.
As a bonus I could put a private plate on and not have the dreaded Q Plate.
I have no comment on the rest of what you say, although I do wonder whether the Exocet does indeed not need an IVA test, but I feel I ought to point out that where a Q plate is required, a private plate cannot be used.I think there will be a resurgence of interest in the MEVX5 type of vehicle and Stuart Mills has to be congratulated on an excellent, economic, simple, one donor design.
There are so many advantages in the one donor no IVA route that I am surprised anyone goes down the IVA route.
A great deal more work is required with a multi donor car.
Then there are the IVA costs (£460?), chassis costs, sourcing costs, and very probably retest costs and the costs of trailering to the Test Centre and time costs in all directions!!.
May not be the right forum but I can only see the MEVX5 route as the obvious winner.
As a bonus I could put a private plate on and not have the dreaded Q Plate.
I apologise if my posting gave this impression. It was not intended to.
No Q plate can ever be replaced on any car. As I know from trying!!
When driving my various specials I enjoy having relevant date registrations.
Hence my abhorrence of Q cars.
There is of course nothing wrong with the Q process. I have owned some.
If I am building a new car I use the IVA new major components route and get a new plate which can then be replaced with a private plate.
As to the Exocet needing an IVA we have posted before on forums where I think we both expressed concern that the relaxation offered by VOSA was not always entirely accurately represented.
However having seen the Exocet in its build, looked at the MX5 in some detail and witnessed the main chassis when the body is of it does seem to me that the Exocet does fall into this category, Stuart Mills certainly advertises this facet of the car.
My concern is with the VW RSK Porsche replica's and Triumph Herald chassis Kit Cars where major work has been carried out in altering the chassis to fit the Kit Car.
I think these are definitely not legal and fear they will be challenged once VOSA realise the extent of the misrepresentation.
Certainly the Stoneleigh and Detling Kit Car shows do not charge kit car drivers to enter and buy things. They get in free, passengers and the non kitcar driving public get charged. But that is the problem I suppose, if I was considering a kit to take my daughter and wife to show would cost me maybe £30 to get in, for which yes you don't get a lot apart from seeing the stands and a chance to buy overpriced refreshments and drinks! And I think the days of "show special" prices and 10 / 20% off prices are long gone. I think these shows are now a major part of the companies income so often it is cheaper to stay at home and buy online.
I went to one of those at Oulton when I was just starting my build. No charge to get in... but then there was nothing there, other than your average track day going on. No stands/stalls, manufacturers or even TotalKitCar presence.
I assume other events were better but that one made Stafford show look good.
I assume other events were better but that one made Stafford show look good.
Personally, I've never found stafford a good show, which is a shame as its in a good area at a good time, which make me think the kit cars have a seasonal issues to them.
As ever we have in this group people who have a negative view of the market and some with positives, but generally the kit car market will continue and I believe grow, I've done a fair bit of research on the market and trend analysis of the buyers, through PERA and generally it looks good if your product fits those area's. That allied to the flex model that most manufacturers work under mean they'll be able to stay in business even if it gets worse.
I think a show that's also a track day is a very good idea and one i'd help with as I think its the way to go for the future
Free kit car driver entry sounds good to encourage good club representation
heavily discounted prices for traders to show and sell for the first year
Public should pay as with plenty of cars, kit manufacturers it can be an area to define their purchase options
Track running would be on a 3 lap basis £10-£15 a go. Which would make it more interesting to the general public too
As ever we have in this group people who have a negative view of the market and some with positives, but generally the kit car market will continue and I believe grow, I've done a fair bit of research on the market and trend analysis of the buyers, through PERA and generally it looks good if your product fits those area's. That allied to the flex model that most manufacturers work under mean they'll be able to stay in business even if it gets worse.
I think a show that's also a track day is a very good idea and one i'd help with as I think its the way to go for the future
Free kit car driver entry sounds good to encourage good club representation
heavily discounted prices for traders to show and sell for the first year
Public should pay as with plenty of cars, kit manufacturers it can be an area to define their purchase options
Track running would be on a 3 lap basis £10-£15 a go. Which would make it more interesting to the general public too
singlecoil said:
I have no comment on the rest of what you say, although I do wonder whether the Exocet does indeed not need an IVA test, but I feel I ought to point out that where a Q plate is required, a private plate cannot be used.
We advise all our customers to IVA their Exocets. This will ensure that the vehicle is built properly and is safe. It will also mean that it can be properly registered and will then be insured at less than half the cost of the donor.The IVA fee can therefore be recouped after 1-3 years depending on the age of driver/postcode ect. The residual value is also increased once the car is properly registered. Some builders will however build an Exocet and run it as a rebodied MX5 and some have MOT'd their Exocets and are doing just that.
The all important issue is. Has the chassis been modified and is the Mazda power plant frame (PPF) a chassis? I would say this is a grey area but the MX5 donor monocoque is disposed of with it's VIN
Going back to Stafford for a minute,.. I have to say I feel rather sad for Den, for years he has been, and will continue to be one of the mainstays of the kit car industry, always full of boundless enthusiasm, yes, he has his critics, but he will definitely bounce back from this setback.
Wacky Racer said:
Going back to Stafford for a minute,.. I have to say I feel rather sad for Den, for years he has been, and will continue to be one of the mainstays of the kit car industry, always full of boundless enthusiasm, yes, he has his critics, but he will definitely bounce back from this setback.
I agree: Den Tanner has always been most helpful and polite to me and he is as you say a live wire. I also agree he will bounce back probably to even higher achievements.Substantial chunks of the current kitcar industry wouldn't be here without Den! Nuff said!
Unfortunately the industry is changing & moving forward at a pace many cannot keep up with - there will certainly be some casualties but it is certainly not all doom & gloom. Interestingly I am busier on the parts side of things than ever so there are still plenty of people out there buying stuff!
Unfortunately the industry is changing & moving forward at a pace many cannot keep up with - there will certainly be some casualties but it is certainly not all doom & gloom. Interestingly I am busier on the parts side of things than ever so there are still plenty of people out there buying stuff!
Steffan said:
Wacky Racer said:
Going back to Stafford for a minute,.. I have to say I feel rather sad for Den, for years he has been, and will continue to be one of the mainstays of the kit car industry, always full of boundless enthusiasm, yes, he has his critics, but he will definitely bounce back from this setback.
I agree: Den Tanner has always been most helpful and polite to me and he is as you say a live wire. I also agree he will bounce back probably to even higher achievements.DEN TANNER said:
Steffan said:
Wacky Racer said:
Going back to Stafford for a minute,.. I have to say I feel rather sad for Den, for years he has been, and will continue to be one of the mainstays of the kit car industry, always full of boundless enthusiasm, yes, he has his critics, but he will definitely bounce back from this setback.
I agree: Den Tanner has always been most helpful and polite to me and he is as you say a live wire. I also agree he will bounce back probably to even higher achievements.
Welcome back Den....
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