Discussion
haven't gone this year, used to be a really good show about 10 years ago, then disappeared off the radar, then came back on the same date as donington and so killing another show off that didn't return. don't know the guy that runs it but have heard more bad things than good about him so you can only draw your own conclusions i suppose.
shame as there are less and less shows, they keep putting the entry price up & giving you less to see - who's really going to go back for more ??
shame as there are less and less shows, they keep putting the entry price up & giving you less to see - who's really going to go back for more ??
I have heard people moaning about the cost of entry to the shows. I was at Detling today, for the Paws In The Park dog show but this is where the European Detling Kit Car Show is held every April / May. Well, today I paid £26.50 to get into he dog show for me, my wife and my 9 year old daughter. For that we go the privelage to wander around fields and the grubby halls getting fleeced by virtually every stand and stall.
Disgraceful really, but I think it is the venues which charge fortunes for their faciliies not the promoters. I do think kit car shows in general need a total re-think to survive, Stafford will survive but even there I showered in a room that should have been bombed in WW2, like a prison camp facility.
I still stand by a southern show at Brands Hatch, hijacking maybe a race meet involving kit cars in action on track, using the exensive grounds and marquees behind the grandstands. Maybe involving some trackday time over the weekend too like the old ToalKitCarLive! format of old. Detling is a s
thole to be fair.
Disgraceful really, but I think it is the venues which charge fortunes for their faciliies not the promoters. I do think kit car shows in general need a total re-think to survive, Stafford will survive but even there I showered in a room that should have been bombed in WW2, like a prison camp facility.
I still stand by a southern show at Brands Hatch, hijacking maybe a race meet involving kit cars in action on track, using the exensive grounds and marquees behind the grandstands. Maybe involving some trackday time over the weekend too like the old ToalKitCarLive! format of old. Detling is a s
thole to be fair. singlecoil said:
I reckon the whole kit car scene is a very dodgy place to be right now. Building a car is just too 'kin expensive, it was bad enough when economic prospects were ok, but now anybody involved must be hanging on by their fingertips, on a slippery edge...
Entirely accurate advice, the Kit Car scene is very poor currently. As I have advised others, (I am an Accountant), this is a very difficult time to keep an existing business going, let alone expand or worse still start up a new business. A good time to consolidate and strengthen businesses concentrating on core business.
Kit cars are essentially luxury purchases.
If the driver can only afford one car it will be the family runner not a kit car.
I am genuinely sorry the show has been so poorly received: it is a sign of the times. I never like to see the efforts of others wasted and I regret the obvious efforts that have been made coming to nothing. But this is a time for probity and caution in business. That is not traditionally a Kit Car theme.
For further proof look at the number of ridiculously cheap kit cars on offer.
That, in itself tells the story.
Hi all, went yesterday, weather wasn’t great so not surprised that many stayed away, defiantly a declining show compared with previous years. Usual array of 7’s and some Cobras. Never paid a £10 to go in the Hall as many people said it just wasn’t worth it as there was just far too few manufactures supporting the event.
Here's a couple of pictures taken with my mobile phone of the MEV pitch, (quite late on in the day) but even they packed up and went home, so unless the weather improves not to sure it will be any better today.
nigel
Here's a couple of pictures taken with my mobile phone of the MEV pitch, (quite late on in the day) but even they packed up and went home, so unless the weather improves not to sure it will be any better today.
nigel
Sonic7 said:
far too few manufactures supporting the event.
And yet it isn't the cost of a stand that has kept them away, as those costs are surprisingly (I was amazed) small. However, the overall costs, including transport, overtime etc will all add up, so the reason why they are not there can only be that they figure their chances of making sales are too low balanced against the costs. singlecoil said:
Sonic7 said:
far too few manufactures supporting the event.
And yet it isn't the cost of a stand that has kept them away, as those costs are surprisingly (I was amazed) small. However, the overall costs, including transport, overtime etc will all add up, so the reason why they are not there can only be that they figure their chances of making sales are too low balanced against the costs. I still have a lot of contacts with Receivers/Managers/Liquidators of businesses and their business is booming. Again.
Without being a wet blanket (another failing) the recovery of our economy is a distant hope at best: the recovery of the fun toys market is not even on the horizon.
Sorry to hear about this, I was planning to go today but decided not to at the last minute, as it involved a 160 mile round trip. The £10 admission was not an issue though, if there's plenty to see.
Pity Den Tanner is not around PH any more to comment, I miss him, but it does seem Stafford is not what it was five years ago.....
Pity Den Tanner is not around PH any more to comment, I miss him, but it does seem Stafford is not what it was five years ago.....
Steffan said:
Entirely accurate advice, the Kit Car scene is very poor currently.
As I have advised others, (I am an Accountant), this is a very difficult time to keep an existing business going, let alone expand or worse still start up a new business. A good time to consolidate and strengthen businesses concentrating on core business.
Kit cars are essentially luxury purchases.
If the driver can only afford one car it will be the family runner not a kit car.
I am genuinely sorry the show has been so poorly received: it is a sign of the times. I never like to see the efforts of others wasted and I regret the obvious efforts that have been made coming to nothing. But this is a time for probity and caution in business. That is not traditionally a Kit Car theme.
For further proof look at the number of ridiculously cheap kit cars on offer.
That, in itself tells the story.
Come on gents you cannot honestly suggest that this fantastic fun industry is all doom and gloom. Some kit cars are practical every day use cars that are very cheap to insure and hardly depreciate at all. Perhaps buying one would be a good idea for those trying to beat the economic crisis. Of course everyone is not effected by the downturn in world markets. Some firms will go to the wall. That happens to weaker firms everytime the word recession is mentioned in the news. Some do more business as a direct result of the cleansing. Guys that were going to spend 30k on a Cobra may cut budget to a 5k LSIS or the cheapest kit to build which of course is welded by the builder in his own workshop. Maybe, just maybe some firms did not attend Stafford as they had full order books. The fun toy market is alive and kicking, honest.As I have advised others, (I am an Accountant), this is a very difficult time to keep an existing business going, let alone expand or worse still start up a new business. A good time to consolidate and strengthen businesses concentrating on core business.
Kit cars are essentially luxury purchases.
If the driver can only afford one car it will be the family runner not a kit car.
I am genuinely sorry the show has been so poorly received: it is a sign of the times. I never like to see the efforts of others wasted and I regret the obvious efforts that have been made coming to nothing. But this is a time for probity and caution in business. That is not traditionally a Kit Car theme.
For further proof look at the number of ridiculously cheap kit cars on offer.
That, in itself tells the story.
tombs said:
Stuart Mills said:
Maybe, just maybe some firms did not attend Stafford as they had full order books.
That definitely wasn't the case Stuart. And for everyones info Stafford will not be run next year.
Declining interest/apathy?
The recession?
Location of venue?....surely not, ten minutes from the M6....40 mins from Birmingham/Manchester..
Excessive admission charge to hall?
Weather?.
Lack of advertising?....It was certainly promoted strongly in this month's "Kit car"
Sorry to hear Stafford won't be running next year, but you can't flog a dead horse....
The industry will definitely survive though in the long term, perhaps there are just too many shows.....simple as that.
Stuart Mills said:
Steffan said:
Entirely accurate advice, the Kit Car scene is very poor currently.
As I have advised others, (I am an Accountant), this is a very difficult time to keep an existing business going, let alone expand or worse still start up a new business. A good time to consolidate and strengthen businesses concentrating on core business.
Kit cars are essentially luxury purchases.
If the driver can only afford one car it will be the family runner not a kit car.
I am genuinely sorry the show has been so poorly received: it is a sign of the times. I never like to see the efforts of others wasted and I regret the obvious efforts that have been made coming to nothing. But this is a time for probity and caution in business. That is not traditionally a Kit Car theme.
For further proof look at the number of ridiculously cheap kit cars on offer.
That, in itself tells the story.
Come on gents you cannot honestly suggest that this fantastic fun industry is all doom and gloom. Some kit cars are practical every day use cars that are very cheap to insure and hardly depreciate at all. Perhaps buying one would be a good idea for those trying to beat the economic crisis. Of course everyone is not effected by the downturn in world markets. Some firms will go to the wall. That happens to weaker firms everytime the word recession is mentioned in the news. Some do more business as a direct result of the cleansing. Guys that were going to spend 30k on a Cobra may cut budget to a 5k LSIS or the cheapest kit to build which of course is welded by the builder in his own workshop. Maybe, just maybe some firms did not attend Stafford as they had full order books. The fun toy market is alive and kicking, honest.As I have advised others, (I am an Accountant), this is a very difficult time to keep an existing business going, let alone expand or worse still start up a new business. A good time to consolidate and strengthen businesses concentrating on core business.
Kit cars are essentially luxury purchases.
If the driver can only afford one car it will be the family runner not a kit car.
I am genuinely sorry the show has been so poorly received: it is a sign of the times. I never like to see the efforts of others wasted and I regret the obvious efforts that have been made coming to nothing. But this is a time for probity and caution in business. That is not traditionally a Kit Car theme.
For further proof look at the number of ridiculously cheap kit cars on offer.
That, in itself tells the story.
I frequently advise enquirers to look at your efforts.
But the mainstream Kit Car business is a very difficult market. You may be right there may still be buyers about and I certainly hope they are about.
But the fundamentals of the UK economy are out of kilter.
I just cannot see how the Kit Car market can be unaffected.
I sincerely hope you are right: but I doubt you are.
I would assume that most people posting in the kit car section are supporters of the industry. Therefore I am surprised by the amount of negative comments that will only add to the scepticism. Potential customers may be put off when they read such comments as have been posted above. All I can say is that MEV is very busy and so are at least 3 other firms that I know of personally. We cannot be the only ones and lets be honest if we did not have enough customers then we do more promoting, it would certainly not the time to say " I cannot afford to exhibit" They pushed the Stafford show very hard and offered very attractive stand rates. It is beyond me as to why so few supported the show.
Historically the reason the industry manages to survive decline in world economics is due to how flexible manufacturers can be. If orders stop flowing then they can cut back and operate from home or work part time. They don't often pack up all together and if they do the product is often up for grabs on ebay.
So I would like to send my sincere condolences to the organisers of the Stafford show, I am sorry it was not a success and that it will not be held next year. "Use it or lose it" is a motto that fits here. Most did not use it and so we lose it.
Lets hope someone else starts a new show next year.
We are going to cater for MEV owners and run 3 open weekends at the MEV test facility in 2012. 3 weekends of fun for our owners, we are charging £40 and that includes camping, entertainment, workshop facilities, driving tuition, auto test skill course etc. I just wish someone would put on a kit car show along those lines that caters for the industry and all owners. Maybe someone will.
There are loads of x RAF airfield type tracks dotted around the U.K
Some are very cheap to rent but have little or no covered space, marquees are not cost prohibitive so I hope someone will take the opportunity here to put on a show in July or August, possibly further north than the usual Newark/Stoneleigh show grounds. The main part of our summer has NO kit car shows.
Other shows may be lost if the industry does not support them.
Historically the reason the industry manages to survive decline in world economics is due to how flexible manufacturers can be. If orders stop flowing then they can cut back and operate from home or work part time. They don't often pack up all together and if they do the product is often up for grabs on ebay.
So I would like to send my sincere condolences to the organisers of the Stafford show, I am sorry it was not a success and that it will not be held next year. "Use it or lose it" is a motto that fits here. Most did not use it and so we lose it.
Lets hope someone else starts a new show next year.
We are going to cater for MEV owners and run 3 open weekends at the MEV test facility in 2012. 3 weekends of fun for our owners, we are charging £40 and that includes camping, entertainment, workshop facilities, driving tuition, auto test skill course etc. I just wish someone would put on a kit car show along those lines that caters for the industry and all owners. Maybe someone will.
There are loads of x RAF airfield type tracks dotted around the U.K
Some are very cheap to rent but have little or no covered space, marquees are not cost prohibitive so I hope someone will take the opportunity here to put on a show in July or August, possibly further north than the usual Newark/Stoneleigh show grounds. The main part of our summer has NO kit car shows.
Other shows may be lost if the industry does not support them.
I was frustrated after a 4 hour round trip and £20 entry price to find what I did.
The thing that suprised me was the lack of club stands outside. Was no one invited? Last time I went to Stafford it wasn't massive but there was an impressive array of private cars. Was Sunday any better?
I'm still doing the 10 hour round trip to Exeter next month so it would be nice to see everyone there!
The thing that suprised me was the lack of club stands outside. Was no one invited? Last time I went to Stafford it wasn't massive but there was an impressive array of private cars. Was Sunday any better?
I'm still doing the 10 hour round trip to Exeter next month so it would be nice to see everyone there!
No, it was much the same on Sunday. A dozen RobinHoods, half as many Cobras and a smattering of others. Less than 30 cars total I'd guess. It was a nice run there and back.
Without a lot of owners cars to fill the field the public won't come. Without the public the traders won't come. Without an incentive the owners won't come...
I don't know where it was advertised. The organisers own mag'? There wasn't even a sign outside the gates to say it was on.
It wouldn't take a lot to make it a good show. Invite the exhibitors and clubs early and keep doing it (more than a few have told me they were only asked very late to attend in the past). Advertise it in ALL the kit car and local press and on the various internet forums and keep doing it. Include free entry for kit owners (like every other show). On the day have some stewards to (a) stamp the kit drivers hands as they enter the grounds so they can get in the hall, and (b) direct the kits to one area and disuade the antiques/wedding show goers from parking amongst them. Even then it'd take a couple of years to get everyone back on board.
Without a lot of owners cars to fill the field the public won't come. Without the public the traders won't come. Without an incentive the owners won't come...
I don't know where it was advertised. The organisers own mag'? There wasn't even a sign outside the gates to say it was on.
It wouldn't take a lot to make it a good show. Invite the exhibitors and clubs early and keep doing it (more than a few have told me they were only asked very late to attend in the past). Advertise it in ALL the kit car and local press and on the various internet forums and keep doing it. Include free entry for kit owners (like every other show). On the day have some stewards to (a) stamp the kit drivers hands as they enter the grounds so they can get in the hall, and (b) direct the kits to one area and disuade the antiques/wedding show goers from parking amongst them. Even then it'd take a couple of years to get everyone back on board.
I think the punters and owners clubs have voted with their feet. After a reasonably sucessfull come back show 2 years ago, loads of people offered advice to Den on how to improve the show and the expierence. Non of these bit of advice were taken up just excuses as to why they couldn't happen, poor excuses at that.
Using clubs to organise the parking was asking a little too much, surely an event of this size you would expect event staff to organise the outside area? Signs on all access routes? Advertising on every possible media? Constant communication to the big kit car forums on what was happening? Couple of food vans, other items outside like the westie slalom the first year?
Then assuming the clubs would continue to help without even asking prompted one club to vote on their forum to completely boycott this years show. To me it seemed the clubs were more interested in trying to make it a good show and the organisers were just interested in money.
It could have been sucessful but the lack of a suitable organiser willing to listen to the punters has killed it.
I hope for the sake of the kit car world that someone comes along and starts another show up and learn from the mistakes of this one.
Using clubs to organise the parking was asking a little too much, surely an event of this size you would expect event staff to organise the outside area? Signs on all access routes? Advertising on every possible media? Constant communication to the big kit car forums on what was happening? Couple of food vans, other items outside like the westie slalom the first year?
Then assuming the clubs would continue to help without even asking prompted one club to vote on their forum to completely boycott this years show. To me it seemed the clubs were more interested in trying to make it a good show and the organisers were just interested in money.
It could have been sucessful but the lack of a suitable organiser willing to listen to the punters has killed it.
I hope for the sake of the kit car world that someone comes along and starts another show up and learn from the mistakes of this one.
As Stuart Mills says there are Kit Car Manufacturers that are still doing well, like Mr Mills, and good luck to them.
I warrant that in terms of £ rate per hour worked the manufacturers work very long hours for very little reward.
Most are genuine enthusiasts, like Stuart Mills and produce excellent products an excellent prices. They need to: the Kit Car market is not in good shape.
The SVA and now IVA has radically altered the complexity and costs of Kit Car preparation. I think in reality the quality and engineering of the products has also radically improved.
I am old enough to have built a Ford Falcon in 1962 from an old Ford Popular with the side valve E93A engine. The standard of build then was woefully inadequate (including mine) and over the years this has improved to the point today where I think Kit Cars are really very well finished.
Of course it is possible to avoid IVA with a kit such as the MX5 based MEVX5 which seems to me to be a very cost effective and sensible route.
As to the Stafford show, others have suggested it is unlikely to reappear. This seems a shame to me I have always found Den Tanner to be courteous helpful, polite and brim full of ideas.
But then I had very good service from Peter Pellandine (Falcon and Ashley Laminates), Paul Banham (Banham RSK and X21), Jem Marsh (Marcos) and Tim Dutton-Woolley (Dutton Melos and Phaeton) in building umpteen Kit Cars all of which were a challenge but all of which I enjoyed.
I believe the Exeter show is still on in October and I, for one, will be there. God willing.
Lets hope there is a surge in interest! Kit Cars need you!!
I warrant that in terms of £ rate per hour worked the manufacturers work very long hours for very little reward.
Most are genuine enthusiasts, like Stuart Mills and produce excellent products an excellent prices. They need to: the Kit Car market is not in good shape.
The SVA and now IVA has radically altered the complexity and costs of Kit Car preparation. I think in reality the quality and engineering of the products has also radically improved.
I am old enough to have built a Ford Falcon in 1962 from an old Ford Popular with the side valve E93A engine. The standard of build then was woefully inadequate (including mine) and over the years this has improved to the point today where I think Kit Cars are really very well finished.
Of course it is possible to avoid IVA with a kit such as the MX5 based MEVX5 which seems to me to be a very cost effective and sensible route.
As to the Stafford show, others have suggested it is unlikely to reappear. This seems a shame to me I have always found Den Tanner to be courteous helpful, polite and brim full of ideas.
But then I had very good service from Peter Pellandine (Falcon and Ashley Laminates), Paul Banham (Banham RSK and X21), Jem Marsh (Marcos) and Tim Dutton-Woolley (Dutton Melos and Phaeton) in building umpteen Kit Cars all of which were a challenge but all of which I enjoyed.
I believe the Exeter show is still on in October and I, for one, will be there. God willing.
Lets hope there is a surge in interest! Kit Cars need you!!
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