Detling - seasons opener
Discussion
Furyblade_Lee said:
As a side to picking on Den personally, I don't think this is the case here on PH! I am aware you had a spat with someone in the past from another mag, but I don't care. I welcome people on here who are involved in the industry, more the better. And knowing Rdoger and AdiT as personal friends of many years, I'd just like to clarify they hold no personal grudges either, any comments are not in any way aimed in regard of a grudge. Just wanted to clarify that as this could spoil a good debate.
I do agree with this post.Life is too short to hold grudges. Well my life is anyway.
Well it is if you have upset as many people as I have. Five wives would testify to my weaknesses. I admire individuals who get up and do things. I always have. I like and admire the energy and drive of Den Tanner, and a number of other kit car personalities. These manufacturers and enthusiasts have achieved a great deal in the Kit Car industry and we are better for their efforts. In doing so, inevitably this will ruffle feathers. Nature of business IMO.
Let bygones be just that. We need open discussion on PH. Long may this continue.
I used to be into the VW scene and would absolutely love to see a Bug Jam style mini festival for kit cars. Lots to see and do, track action all day and 35000 people creating atmosphere. Went twice, best show I've ever been to. Also minimal number of anoraks which helps. A kit car show deperately needs action as that's mostly what these cars are all about. where else could you see and hear bike engines against v8s against turbo'd 4-pots? I want to organise a show at Santa Pod or if that's too expensive a venue then North Weald airfield perhaps. I might look into it - how hard can it be...?!
The shows are what you make of them. I'm sure there'll be some who turn up at Stoneleigh, leave within the hour and say there was nothing worth seeing and some who report that they didn't go because it was crap. I'll have a good time.
This is how my Detling weekend went...
A nice 250 mile cruise down Fri' afternoon, starting (blat) over Woodhead pass between the snow left over fron Wed; You know your tyres are cold when they're running through melt water! Meeting up with mates, a quick blat on Fri night to the pub for something to eat after the drive down.Thanks to Lee for putting me up for the night. Sat' morning and a great 2 hour blat around the lanes with 1/2 a dozen others, breakfast en-route and a convoy into the show.
Show itself... Friendly faces at the gates directing us in. Nice welcome from the SKCC. Then a wander around the hall. Was a bit small but what there was was interesting enough; Whats not to like when there's tool stands. Left/lost Lee at the Hawk stand (he'll build/buy one someday...) Back outside and a wander around the owners cars. Some interesting stuff but the gloomy sky's had kept a lot in thier beds. Back to the SKCC pitch and a nosey around the cars there before a BBQ burger (I must owe someone for that? can I see you streight at Stoneleigh?). More chatting, another visit to the hall to buy a couple of little bits. Should I/shouldn't I put up the hood (cold and spitting rain on and off all day) and head for home.
Rain hit within min's of leaving so the hood was the right choice but soon stopped. Nice little exchange of exhaust noise in the Dartford tunnel with a 911. Criuse up the M1 and time for a brief blat over the Pennines before arriving home.
Whatever others say I enjoyed it. Was that down to the organisers? No, it was down to the company of like minded individuals and the "show" was only a small part of my trip. Thanks again to Lee for the accomodation and the SKCC for the welcome.
...and just to make sure this thread drifts off topic again, my BECs chocolate engine did 500miles without melting and the tissue paper gearbox didn't rip itself appart! Who cares about Den's oppinion of a show he didn't visit, when we could have a BEC v's CEC debate instead
This is how my Detling weekend went...
A nice 250 mile cruise down Fri' afternoon, starting (blat) over Woodhead pass between the snow left over fron Wed; You know your tyres are cold when they're running through melt water! Meeting up with mates, a quick blat on Fri night to the pub for something to eat after the drive down.Thanks to Lee for putting me up for the night. Sat' morning and a great 2 hour blat around the lanes with 1/2 a dozen others, breakfast en-route and a convoy into the show.
Show itself... Friendly faces at the gates directing us in. Nice welcome from the SKCC. Then a wander around the hall. Was a bit small but what there was was interesting enough; Whats not to like when there's tool stands. Left/lost Lee at the Hawk stand (he'll build/buy one someday...) Back outside and a wander around the owners cars. Some interesting stuff but the gloomy sky's had kept a lot in thier beds. Back to the SKCC pitch and a nosey around the cars there before a BBQ burger (I must owe someone for that? can I see you streight at Stoneleigh?). More chatting, another visit to the hall to buy a couple of little bits. Should I/shouldn't I put up the hood (cold and spitting rain on and off all day) and head for home.
Rain hit within min's of leaving so the hood was the right choice but soon stopped. Nice little exchange of exhaust noise in the Dartford tunnel with a 911. Criuse up the M1 and time for a brief blat over the Pennines before arriving home.
Whatever others say I enjoyed it. Was that down to the organisers? No, it was down to the company of like minded individuals and the "show" was only a small part of my trip. Thanks again to Lee for the accomodation and the SKCC for the welcome.
...and just to make sure this thread drifts off topic again, my BECs chocolate engine did 500miles without melting and the tissue paper gearbox didn't rip itself appart! Who cares about Den's oppinion of a show he didn't visit, when we could have a BEC v's CEC debate instead
Nikolai said:
I used to be into the VW scene and would absolutely love to see a Bug Jam style mini festival for kit cars. Lots to see and do, track action all day and 35000 people creating atmosphere. Went twice, best show I've ever been to. Also minimal number of anoraks which helps. A kit car show deperately needs action as that's mostly what these cars are all about. where else could you see and hear bike engines against v8s against turbo'd 4-pots? I want to organise a show at Santa Pod or if that's too expensive a venue then North Weald airfield perhaps. I might look into it - how hard can it be...?!
I think you're right that Detling was far too static, but Detling isn't really the best for any sort of live events. They had some motorbike display a couple of years ago, but it was quite small. I don't want to come down too hard on Detling, but perhaps the location isn't the best. It's too far from London, and doesn't have enough tarmac. Somewhere around the south section of the M25 might be better. Caterham perhaps....
I’m far from finished in my involvement with our kit car industry….
And I’m far from finished with my involvement in our kit car shows….
For these two reasons I have personal, professional and commercial motivation to ensure the record is kept straight.
In my last spat of postings I apologised profusely for my failings in not delivering the 2011 Stafford show as I’d have liked. I was rather hoping that debate would have led to questions about what those failings were and how they might be remedied. Instead the thread was hijacked….
That isn’t what’s happening in this thread. I accept that people have every right to express opinions about what they prefer. But when they make absolute statements of fact they must surely realise that they are open to challenge.
In the case of AdiT he in-effect said “Detling was inferior in every quantifiable way ….. but far better than Stafford”. Tell me there isn’t an element of bias (or stupidity?) in these words. To save you going back; these were his exact words:-
In this thread he goes on:-
Well of course there were: he knew it: he certainly knew that Detling “was pretty much empty” by comparison with Stafford (ie the other way about). Having his slander thwarted on this point he might have attempted to back-down. No, he rather fabricated his account of people demanding their money back. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve dealt with Mr Dodger’s long enough not to take them too seriously. As I said, all I’m doing here is ensuring the record isn’t permanently distorted. I've a future to consider/protect.
And I’m far from finished with my involvement in our kit car shows….
For these two reasons I have personal, professional and commercial motivation to ensure the record is kept straight.
In my last spat of postings I apologised profusely for my failings in not delivering the 2011 Stafford show as I’d have liked. I was rather hoping that debate would have led to questions about what those failings were and how they might be remedied. Instead the thread was hijacked….
That isn’t what’s happening in this thread. I accept that people have every right to express opinions about what they prefer. But when they make absolute statements of fact they must surely realise that they are open to challenge.
In the case of AdiT he in-effect said “Detling was inferior in every quantifiable way ….. but far better than Stafford”. Tell me there isn’t an element of bias (or stupidity?) in these words. To save you going back; these were his exact words:-
AdiT said:
Just to be positve about things... Detling, despite it's small size , early date, poor weather, poor attendance, etc, was a damn site better show than Stafford last year.
I believe rdodger, on the other hand is altogether more transparent. He instigated the Stafford thread last September as follows:-rdodger said:
If you were thinking of going..... Don't bother!
The hall was pretty much empty and there must have been less than 80 cars on the club stands.
About as good as the magazine that runs it.
Was “pretty much empty” fair or accurate? I think his last sentence reveals the root of his issue!The hall was pretty much empty and there must have been less than 80 cars on the club stands.
About as good as the magazine that runs it.
In this thread he goes on:-
rdodger said:
26 manufacturers of what? there certianly weren't 26 kit manufacturers at Stafford.
Well of course there were: he knew it: he certainly knew that Detling “was pretty much empty” by comparison with Stafford (ie the other way about). Having his slander thwarted on this point he might have attempted to back-down. No, he rather fabricated his account of people demanding their money back. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve dealt with Mr Dodger’s long enough not to take them too seriously. As I said, all I’m doing here is ensuring the record isn’t permanently distorted. I've a future to consider/protect.
That's right I did start the Stafford thread. I started it because I thought the show was terrible and a waste of my time and money.
I didn't fabricate the people shouting and demanding their money back. Why would I? I don't know you and have no axe to grind. I just won't bother going to Stafford again.
Since you bring it up. I have bought your magazine and find it to be full of reprinted articles and guides. Very little original content. Again I don't really care. I just won't buy it again.
I didn't fabricate the people shouting and demanding their money back. Why would I? I don't know you and have no axe to grind. I just won't bother going to Stafford again.
Since you bring it up. I have bought your magazine and find it to be full of reprinted articles and guides. Very little original content. Again I don't really care. I just won't buy it again.
rdodger said:
That's right I did start the Stafford thread. I started it because I thought the show was terrible and a waste of my time and money.
An honest opinion to which you're entitled and with which many would agree (including me). But is that the same as describing a nearly full hall as being nearly empty? Or more than 160 as less than 80? Or 26 as none? rdodger said:
I didn't fabricate the people shouting and demanding their money back.
Yes you did! If you genuinely witnessed it you would have reported it at the time (you weren't exactly holding back - were you?). My guess is that you read something on another forum between then and now and accepted it at face and adopted it into your personal experience. You've deceived/deluded yourself and on that basis I'm prepared to accept your present representations as honest dishonesty. rdodger said:
Why would I? I don't know you and have no axe to grind.
If you've no axe to grind, then why are you grinding axes?rdodger said:
I just won't bother going to Stafford again.
Good, that will mean that you'll have no reason to start another thread on the subject or to contribute more of your 'balanced' views on it.rdodger said:
Since you bring it up. I have bought your magazine and find it to be full of reprinted articles and guides. Very little original content.
For the record I didn't "bring it up". They are your words and, if I may say, they tend to make a lie of your claim of having "no axe to grind" - especially when added to those words you've just added. rdodger said:
Again I don't really care.
Finally, we arrive at the truth! QED
rdodger said:
I just won't buy it again.
Relief: You'll therefore have no reason to slag it off in future then - hey?MX7 said:
I don't want to come down too hard on Detling, but perhaps the location isn't the best. It's too far from London, and doesn't have enough tarmac. Somewhere around the south section of the M25 might be better. Caterham perhaps....
Too far from London?Seriously?
According to my sat nav my wife and I did a round trip of 666 miles to get to and from Detling and I'm sure other people travelled as far or further. In fact I spoke to one guy who had come from Spain.
Den
The only deluded person here is you.
I do not lie, have no reason to and do not like being accused of it. Since you weren't there on the door at the time you can't know. If you choose not to believe me then fine.
Did you just join up on here to start new fueds? Are you missing being the centre of attention? Whatever it is please take it somewhere else.
I have no more to say on the show and have no intention of wasting any more of my time replying to your deluded ranting. I have made my opinion clear and stick by what I said 100%.
The only deluded person here is you.
I do not lie, have no reason to and do not like being accused of it. Since you weren't there on the door at the time you can't know. If you choose not to believe me then fine.
Did you just join up on here to start new fueds? Are you missing being the centre of attention? Whatever it is please take it somewhere else.
I have no more to say on the show and have no intention of wasting any more of my time replying to your deluded ranting. I have made my opinion clear and stick by what I said 100%.
It's a round of the 750motor club racing thats on at Donington... But I might have got that wrong seeing as I might apparently sufer from "stupidity".
All I did was express an opinion on which show was better (note, I didn't say either was good, bad or indifferent) and some people choose to get personal... and people wonder why some would have an axe to grind with Den.
If Den would like to search the various forums he'll find me defending (with caveats) previous editions of Stafford, as quite a nice show to attend. Peoples impressions of shows will always be subjective (whatever the claimed "quantifiable measures"). Only an idiot would fail to understand that.
All I did was express an opinion on which show was better (note, I didn't say either was good, bad or indifferent) and some people choose to get personal... and people wonder why some would have an axe to grind with Den.
If Den would like to search the various forums he'll find me defending (with caveats) previous editions of Stafford, as quite a nice show to attend. Peoples impressions of shows will always be subjective (whatever the claimed "quantifiable measures"). Only an idiot would fail to understand that.
gtmdriver said:
MX7 said:
I don't want to come down too hard on Detling, but perhaps the location isn't the best. It's too far from London, and doesn't have enough tarmac. Somewhere around the south section of the M25 might be better. Caterham perhaps....
Too far from London?Seriously?
According to my sat nav my wife and I did a round trip of 666 miles to get to and from Detling and I'm sure other people travelled as far or further. In fact I spoke to one guy who had come from Spain.
That part of Kent isn't particularly densely populated. Even Maidstone is only 75,000 people. Detling works great for the Kent agricultural show, which I've been to a few times, but I think that there are probably better locations in the south that would allow the show to do more, and have better access for more people. You're hardly likely to get the casual daytripper going from West London to Maidstone, which is why I think it might do better near the M25 around the Surrey/Kent border.
Furyblade_Lee said:
MX7, I live within hiking distance of Caterham and I can assure you there is nowhere around here big enough to host an event with live action!!
I wasn't being entirely serious about Caterham!Actually, would this work?
I am competing too at that Crystal Palace sprint with (against??!) Jeff, trust us we will be flying the flag for kitcars. And there could well be a club stand for SouthernKitCars planned, they definitely know how to fly the flag. But I don't think it wouldn't work as a general "kit car" show as the punters have paid to see the racing and I doubt would want to browse for hours away from the action. When I am sprinting the mini my Phoenix will be on the Sevenoaks Motor Club static stand so people can have a look if they want.
Furyblade_Lee said:
I am competing too at that Crystal Palace sprint with (against??!) Jeff, trust us we will be flying the flag for kitcars. And there could well be a club stand for SouthernKitCars planned, they definitely know how to fly the flag. But I don't think it wouldn't work as a general "kit car" show as the punters have paid to see the racing and I doubt would want to browse for hours away from the action. When I am sprinting the mini my Phoenix will be on the Sevenoaks Motor Club static stand so people can have a look if they want.
I mean have it as a show in it's own right at Crystal Palace instead of Detling.I was toying with the idea of going to Detling as my first show "with car", but the weather put a blocker on that one for me sadly as it's a bit of a trek to risk it.
And for me I think that the weather has a key part to play in a lot of the posts on here. As for any hobby where a vast majority of owners have open-top vehicles, the weather is always going to play a large part in on-day performance/enjoyment of the event.
I went to Stoneleigh last year and it was sunny all day and there were masses and masses of owners cars there and i fully enjoyed a full day looking at things. What was "officially" laid on was really good, but i probably went around that in a couple of hours and i expect iwould have taken that long even if there had been a bit more or less, as i like many others am not interested in _everything_ and we have an agenda. i.e. rummage on tool stalls, look at some kits we've read about, then gossip to people
And i found the same at Exeter, while the show was smaller and there were less owners cars, there was still a good turn out and i still had things to see and people to meet and i had a thoroughly good time. <size did not = <enjoyment well.... not for me anyway
So for me I'd disagree with a previous poster who wants "quality over quality" (nothing personal matey - I'm not that sort of person ) and I'd prefer a slightly larger number of geographically diverse events spread over the sunnier times of the year so we can mix and choose attendees from both the manufacturers and from the owners/builders and see no reason why even then there couldn't still be 'a' big show in the middle?
But this is just my 2p's worth and while i may disagree with other peoples opinions, i still respect them
I look fwd to possibly meeting some of you over "the season" ahead
Dave
And for me I think that the weather has a key part to play in a lot of the posts on here. As for any hobby where a vast majority of owners have open-top vehicles, the weather is always going to play a large part in on-day performance/enjoyment of the event.
I went to Stoneleigh last year and it was sunny all day and there were masses and masses of owners cars there and i fully enjoyed a full day looking at things. What was "officially" laid on was really good, but i probably went around that in a couple of hours and i expect iwould have taken that long even if there had been a bit more or less, as i like many others am not interested in _everything_ and we have an agenda. i.e. rummage on tool stalls, look at some kits we've read about, then gossip to people
And i found the same at Exeter, while the show was smaller and there were less owners cars, there was still a good turn out and i still had things to see and people to meet and i had a thoroughly good time. <size did not = <enjoyment well.... not for me anyway
So for me I'd disagree with a previous poster who wants "quality over quality" (nothing personal matey - I'm not that sort of person
) and I'd prefer a slightly larger number of geographically diverse events spread over the sunnier times of the year so we can mix and choose attendees from both the manufacturers and from the owners/builders and see no reason why even then there couldn't still be 'a' big show in the middle?But this is just my 2p's worth and while i may disagree with other peoples opinions, i still respect them
I look fwd to possibly meeting some of you over "the season" ahead
Dave
MX7 said:
I mean have it as a show in it's own right at Crystal Palace instead of Detling.
I don't think you appreciate the level of work or costs that go into the Sprint. This is not a 'showground' like Stoneleigh or Detling and has to have special dispensation from the council etc. Apart from anything else there is no large display hall.Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff