Kit car industry and how to revive interest and sales
Discussion
Isn't the idea of a kit / scratch build to get away from "production car standards"?
A bloke picked me up to go and look at a job yesterday in his Hyundai. It had about fifty buttons on the steering wheel alone.
That compares with five switches, six if you count the key, on my scratch build.
\I/ My build ( & me )
A bloke picked me up to go and look at a job yesterday in his Hyundai. It had about fifty buttons on the steering wheel alone.
That compares with five switches, six if you count the key, on my scratch build.
\I/ My build ( & me )
OwenK said:
I think it still could be, in the form of body conversion panel kits onto decent modern (but relatively inexpensive) donors, with good aesthetically pleasing designs (maybe by design students etc rather than by the kit manufacturer himself).
The modified car bodykit market is bigger now than it ever was and some of them are pretty extensive and require serious surgery to fit - see rocket bunny wide arch kits et al.
It was my intention to start working on some projects in this sector - just because they're cars I wanted to build for myself if nothing else - but the expense and heartache of my last project and being let down by suppliers has really put me off attempting something even more ambitious.
I had in mind a modern sports/GT design resembling something along the lines of an F-Type crossed with a DB10. Donor car Nissan 350Z for relatively cheap powerful FR chassis with a great engine note and a fair selection of aftermarket parts. For £10k total you could have yourself something really unusual that looked at home next to £100k machines but without being a "wannabe" replica of anything in particular. I strongly feel that poor aesthetic design is the main thing keeping the current range of panel kits out of the public eye.
There are fresh new well balanced body designs out there, look at the Jakabi Abster and the Enigma, there are others too, some have a nod to the past but use modern running gear, grp that will not rust and engines that do not wheeze, much better to live with than an old classic. There were some great cars on display at Stonleigh this year from Tribute and Nubodi to name just 2. Please take a look at the current offerings.The modified car bodykit market is bigger now than it ever was and some of them are pretty extensive and require serious surgery to fit - see rocket bunny wide arch kits et al.
It was my intention to start working on some projects in this sector - just because they're cars I wanted to build for myself if nothing else - but the expense and heartache of my last project and being let down by suppliers has really put me off attempting something even more ambitious.
I had in mind a modern sports/GT design resembling something along the lines of an F-Type crossed with a DB10. Donor car Nissan 350Z for relatively cheap powerful FR chassis with a great engine note and a fair selection of aftermarket parts. For £10k total you could have yourself something really unusual that looked at home next to £100k machines but without being a "wannabe" replica of anything in particular. I strongly feel that poor aesthetic design is the main thing keeping the current range of panel kits out of the public eye.
Edited by OwenK on Wednesday 14th September 22:07
Edited by Stuart Mills on Thursday 15th September 09:28
Pistom said:
I do however believe that all this talk is fanciful dreaming.
"You've got to have a dream, If you don't have a dream, How you gonna have a dream come true"; Raymond Ian Burns 
Pistom said:
RIP kit car industry
/close thread! :/I never expected this thread to be the saviour of the Kit car industry but it's a good forum to discuss ideas.
Not quite the same but i built a mountain bike up from a 2nd hand frame (ebay) with new and used parts. It would have been more cost effective to have bought one from Halfords but I enjoyed the building of it, learning from mistakes made and had a bike I was proud of at the end of the build.
On a side note, have you caught 'B is for Build' on Youtube? He is rebuilding a rolled Lotus Evora. Again, probably (definitely) not the easiest option but he does it for the challenge. 130,000 followers too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g51IAahllzY link if interested.
SystemParanoia said:
It's the mid-engined coupe we've all been waiting for! 
Seriously though, can it be legal? It says they've passed SVA - I guess it counts as a motorcycle.
I love the way they make a feature of "all wheel braking"!
I'm oddly tempted!
I was curious and wrote on google trends kit car and see for yourself the results....
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=kit%20car
and it does make you think what people are researching on google and the main countries were kitcars are stil big and on another note, will this help in the future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALL6MuFWs1A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AlcRoqS65E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzy84Vb_Gxk
or not...
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=kit%20car
and it does make you think what people are researching on google and the main countries were kitcars are stil big and on another note, will this help in the future
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALL6MuFWs1A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AlcRoqS65E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzy84Vb_Gxk
or not...
Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 24th October 09:38
OwenK said:
I strongly feel that poor aesthetic design is the main thing keeping the current range of panel kits out of the public eye.
this is it in a nutshell.Edited by OwenK on Wednesday 14th September 22:07
Mr Mills is a chassis engineer and by all accounts the MEVS go quite nicely, but he realised that he cant design bodywork so doesnt put any on. sensible.
The Tribute psuedo-classics are nice, but their underpinnings are not exactly cutting edge track wonders. they are exercises in making things look pretty.
Perhaps Mr Mills should have a word with Mr Welch and see what they can come up with?
Isn't that called the MEV Replicar ?
That said, and refereeing to the thread on here about a small mid engine coupe, if you can take the MEV Rocket chassis, engineer it for the Audi longitudinal/transaxle engines (1.8T, VR6, 3.0l v6 or even the 4.2 v8) and clothe it in something like the Ginetta G12, I can see where you are coming from.
That said, and refereeing to the thread on here about a small mid engine coupe, if you can take the MEV Rocket chassis, engineer it for the Audi longitudinal/transaxle engines (1.8T, VR6, 3.0l v6 or even the 4.2 v8) and clothe it in something like the Ginetta G12, I can see where you are coming from.
Edited by ugg10 on Thursday 27th October 15:50
ugg10 said:
Isn't that called the MEV Replicar ?
That said, and refereeing to the thread on here about a small mid engine coupe, if you can take the MEV Rocket chassis, engineer it for the Audi longitudinal/transaxle engines (1.8T, VR6, 3.0l v6 or even the 4.2 v8) and clothe it in something like the Ginetta G12, I can see where you are coming from.
The bigger Audi engines mostly come with Quattro transaxles which rules out the single donor idea and adapter parts add extra cost to the build. The four pot NA engines are heavy, underpowered and have limited tuning compared to the Duratec and the easy torque of the turbos isn't for everyone. That said, and refereeing to the thread on here about a small mid engine coupe, if you can take the MEV Rocket chassis, engineer it for the Audi longitudinal/transaxle engines (1.8T, VR6, 3.0l v6 or even the 4.2 v8) and clothe it in something like the Ginetta G12, I can see where you are coming from.
Edited by ugg10 on Thursday 27th October 15:50
ugg10 said:
if you can take the MEV Rocket chassis, engineer it for the Audi longitudinal/transaxle engines (1.8T, VR6, 3.0l v6 or even the 4.2 v8) and clothe it in something like the Ginetta G12, I can see where you are coming from.
But unfortunately that's the kind of car that gets compared against a second hand BMW Z4 or Porsche Boxter and we're around in circles again for the reasons that kit cars aren't as popular as they were 
Only time I see kit cars about is on track around my area don't see many being used on the road at all. I own a exocet it was built to be road legal but I had a mx5 at the time which was just as enjoyable to use on the road as one its got a windscreen 2 its more comftable 3 its dry if it rains and 4 you don't look an idiot driving one and I'm not even one to think about image.
On the road a mx5 offers 95% the driving experience as the exocet but the exocet well mine is a totally different beast to a mx5 on track and so much quicker. Case in point in the sprint series my exocet is turbocharged 220bhp I run around 5s quicker roughly per meeting quicker than a similary spec turbo charged mx5. Track is the future for kit cars as that's the only place you can use them and cars now in general.
On the road a mx5 offers 95% the driving experience as the exocet but the exocet well mine is a totally different beast to a mx5 on track and so much quicker. Case in point in the sprint series my exocet is turbocharged 220bhp I run around 5s quicker roughly per meeting quicker than a similary spec turbo charged mx5. Track is the future for kit cars as that's the only place you can use them and cars now in general.
ugg10 said:
Isn't that called the MEV Replicar ?
yes, but....no, it's not the same. the replicar is a "replica", the tribute ones are "tributes": a bit more resolved to look a bit more modern. our appreciation of curves and lines has changed since the 60s, so the tribute cars look slightly better to our modern eyes. i mean in areas like where the body tucks under the car. in the 60s it was really underneath (Jag E type for example) and cars looked very tall. now we like stuff thats a bit more ground hugging - see what they did with the Growler... Edited by ugg10 on Thursday 27th October 15:50
subtle difference i admit!
If the original looks pretty much perfect & we've got used to seeing it that way & love it, then no replica or tribute or looky likey is going to get the thumbs up from most of those that loved the original.
However to the totally untrained & inexperienced eye of the general public they would look at either of the cars above & say "it's a Ferrari" particularly in instances where they have Ferrari badges & prancing horses on, the same goes for 355 & 360 "rep" MR2's
The simple fact of the matter is that Joe Public, on the whole, is not really very interested in cars (hence the only truly successful TV "Car Show" being the one with 3 daft blokes taking the wee out of each other for an hour or so), nor knowledgeable about them, other than looking lustfully at "Supercars", which is probably as much about a jealousy of lifestyle as the cars themselves. I have had a no. of people come up to me over the years & ask the question "is that a real F1 car" referring to the Furore, I have also been asked if it was a Formula 3000, 5000 or a Formula 3 car - I guess that about sums up the public knowledge
My take on this is very much live & let live, the Tribute on the MX5 underpinnings is a pretty little car & a lot more exotic looking than an MX5, & we might as well get used to it as there certainly aren't going to be too many new kitcars hitting the scene as time goes on, I see another one bit the dust last week as MK have apparently ceased trading, tho' I believe their fabricator is continuing the business in some way
However to the totally untrained & inexperienced eye of the general public they would look at either of the cars above & say "it's a Ferrari" particularly in instances where they have Ferrari badges & prancing horses on, the same goes for 355 & 360 "rep" MR2's
The simple fact of the matter is that Joe Public, on the whole, is not really very interested in cars (hence the only truly successful TV "Car Show" being the one with 3 daft blokes taking the wee out of each other for an hour or so), nor knowledgeable about them, other than looking lustfully at "Supercars", which is probably as much about a jealousy of lifestyle as the cars themselves. I have had a no. of people come up to me over the years & ask the question "is that a real F1 car" referring to the Furore, I have also been asked if it was a Formula 3000, 5000 or a Formula 3 car - I guess that about sums up the public knowledge
My take on this is very much live & let live, the Tribute on the MX5 underpinnings is a pretty little car & a lot more exotic looking than an MX5, & we might as well get used to it as there certainly aren't going to be too many new kitcars hitting the scene as time goes on, I see another one bit the dust last week as MK have apparently ceased trading, tho' I believe their fabricator is continuing the business in some way
Just wondering if the Kitcar Industry should consider and diversify into electric sportscars for enthusiasts ?....there have been a few attempts, but maybe the time is right now to move forward into switching the focus of the Kitcar industry in this new territory ? I have see some nice electric kitcars that have potential us production kits or turnkeys.
Eventhough if it's not a kitcar, we now have Morgan, who is going in production with its threewheeler in 2017, I could see a few threewheeler kitcar manufactures consider a similar option....
They just presented this new Chinese Supercar, designed and engineered by a team of global professionals .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPaUr4elS5E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN-qtYA5UGQ
Eventhough if it's not a kitcar, we now have Morgan, who is going in production with its threewheeler in 2017, I could see a few threewheeler kitcar manufactures consider a similar option....
They just presented this new Chinese Supercar, designed and engineered by a team of global professionals .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPaUr4elS5E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN-qtYA5UGQ
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 24th November 10:54
I looked at various options for motors, controllers and batteries last year. There isn't really a donor source for high power kit so you are looking at new, which is expensive. Not to mention playing around with power electronics and high dc voltage is outside most people's comfort zone.
We needed to replace a set of ups batteries at work and my boss asked about just buying and swapping them out ourselves. I told him that if he fancied working on a live 682 volt supply with me then yes. He paid the ups support company to come and do the job...
It is bad enough having a tank range of 90 miles in a seven, imagine having to wait for it to charge too.
What niche were you thinking of? I can imagine there might be a few people that would build a single seat commuter providing it was weather tight so they could use it instead of a thirsty v8 weekend car. The performance end would be very expensive, you could build a relatively light track day special with swap out battery packs I suppose. A few hundred kilos of car with half a dozen packs on a trailer or something.
We needed to replace a set of ups batteries at work and my boss asked about just buying and swapping them out ourselves. I told him that if he fancied working on a live 682 volt supply with me then yes. He paid the ups support company to come and do the job...
It is bad enough having a tank range of 90 miles in a seven, imagine having to wait for it to charge too.
What niche were you thinking of? I can imagine there might be a few people that would build a single seat commuter providing it was weather tight so they could use it instead of a thirsty v8 weekend car. The performance end would be very expensive, you could build a relatively light track day special with swap out battery packs I suppose. A few hundred kilos of car with half a dozen packs on a trailer or something.
that is true Tolec, the idea of a donor for an EV is possible but who wants a range to match a Prius. Using a second hand motor and batteries that have past their best is likely to create disappointment. An old fork lift motor and some lead acid milk float batteries is also unlikely to impress.
New EV gear is cheapish now, see electricmotorsport for example, far cheaper to buy a decent lithium set with an AC motor and controller than an eco boost engine/box/diff/management/exhaust/tank/pump/radiator etc.
No need to go quite as high as 682 volts either, actually one tenth of that, 72V being quite common.
The mistake that is made time and time again is the conversion of a tin top, too heavy and too many creature comforts we can manage without.
Kit cars are perfectly poised as realistic lightweight fun EV's.
Tesla use 7000 AA batteries under the floor but the car weighs 2 tons, and then they allow the owners to try and destroy the cells by giving drivers "insane mode". Now there is an idea!
New EV gear is cheapish now, see electricmotorsport for example, far cheaper to buy a decent lithium set with an AC motor and controller than an eco boost engine/box/diff/management/exhaust/tank/pump/radiator etc.
No need to go quite as high as 682 volts either, actually one tenth of that, 72V being quite common.
The mistake that is made time and time again is the conversion of a tin top, too heavy and too many creature comforts we can manage without.
Kit cars are perfectly poised as realistic lightweight fun EV's.
Tesla use 7000 AA batteries under the floor but the car weighs 2 tons, and then they allow the owners to try and destroy the cells by giving drivers "insane mode". Now there is an idea!
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