Kit car industry and how to revive interest and sales

[fuoriserie]

A retro inspired rebody on an new Mazda Mx5

[fuoriserie]

A retro inspired body conversion kit for the Mx5

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.p...

[Iwantoneofthose]

Maybe there needs to be more quality videos on the web. A number of KC promotional videos I've seen are just a drive by, filmed in the estate where they are built, probably on a Nokia 3310.

They say that 'a picture is worth a thousand words', but a well filmed and edited promo video could be worth many more.

[qdos]

Iwantoneofthose said:

Maybe there needs to be more quality videos on the web. A number of KC promotional videos I've seen are just a drive by, filmed in the estate where they are built, probably on a Nokia 3310.

They say that 'a picture is worth a thousand words', but a well filmed and edited promo video could be worth many more.

Here's 3 that made it onto the television late last year...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ps0W_F4CpA

[KDIcarmad]

fuoriserie said:

Images of the Hiroshi Mazda Mx5:

http://www.2000gt.net/Replicas/Hiroshi/Hiroshi.php

Edited by fuoriserie on Monday 23 April 08:22

I believe there were 2 or 3 open Toyota 2000 roadster build(converted, possible in the UK?). As Sean Connery would not fit inside the coupe, when making "You Only Live Twice". He never drives the car in the film as he was still to tall, it appears he still almost looking over the windscreen anyway. Please correct me if wrong on any of this. Still looks great, as would a coupe. I also believe the GT was build or designed by Yamaha and marketed by Toyota. The 2000GT is said to have inspired the Datsun 240, is there a Yamaha connection here as well? A MX5 240 any one?

[ColinM50]

fuoriserie said:

A retro inspired rebody on an new Mazda Mx5

That is a fabulous looking car and IMHO exactly what the kit car industry should be offering. Sadly though it seems it's not actually a kitcar, it's "just" a concept car and since the MX5 chassis is stretched by 8 inces I think, it would need an IVA tect too. Having said all that I'd definitely buy one if a sensible price.

[jason61c]

KDIcarmad said:

I believe there were 2 or 3 open Toyota 2000 roadster build(converted, possible in the UK?). As Sean Connery would not fit inside the coupe, when making "You Only Live Twice". He never drives the car in the film as he was still to tall, it appears he still almost looking over the windscreen anyway. Please correct me if wrong on any of this. Still looks great, as would a coupe. I also believe the GT was build or designed by Yamaha and marketed by Toyota. The 2000GT is said to have inspired the Datsun 240, is there a Yamaha connection here as well? A MX5 240 any one?

mx5 240!? That'd be horrid! Its too short and not wide enough too.

[fuoriserie]

ColinM50 said:

That is a fabulous looking car and IMHO exactly what the kit car industry should be offering. Sadly though it seems it's not actually a kitcar, it's "just" a concept car and since the MX5 chassis is stretched by 8 inces I think, it would need an IVA tect too. Having said all that I'd definitely buy one if a sensible price.

I actually think that you could have a retro inspired classic design, on the original mx5 chassis, and have a retro inspired roadster/coupe rebody.

Just for fun I will post my rough sketch on another thread...

[Steffan]

fuoriserie said:

ColinM50 said:

That is a fabulous looking car and IMHO exactly what the kit car industry should be offering. Sadly though it seems it's not actually a kitcar, it's "just" a concept car and since the MX5 chassis is stretched by 8 inces I think, it would need an IVA tect too. Having said all that I'd definitely buy one if a sensible price.

I actually think that you could have a retro inspired classic design, on the original mx5 chassis, and have a retro inspired roadster/coupe rebody.

Just for fun I will post my rough sketch on another thread...

Afternoon Italo good to see your ideas are still bubbling. Good, keep it up!

There are clear advantages to avoiding IVA and the more I see of these MX5 rebodies the more I think this has to be the way forward. The costs of IVA and the heartache and pressure of IVA is clearly having a detrimental effect on kit sales and kit completions.

Last time I checked Ebay out there were about twenty unfinished and part built kits all for sale for less than the costs of buying new kits in and several of these were reasonably built pretty well complete kits.

What would be builders must be careful to ensure is that there is sufficient chassis unaltered and retained from the original donor vehicle to properly obviate the need for IVA.

But with reasonable care and donor chassis retention no IVA requirement is genuinely achievable and a damned sight easier and cheaper to complete. Could well be the growth area for Kits currently.

[jason61c]

The problem I see with a rebody is that its not really full build. Lots of people buy kits for the thrill/challenge of building a whole car, not just putting a bodykit on a mx5/mr2 etc. Look how many people build a kit, use it for 3 months then sell on again to start another project.

[Steffan]

jason61c said:

The problem I see with a rebody is that its not really full build. Lots of people buy kits for the thrill/challenge of building a whole car, not just putting a bodykit on a mx5/mr2 etc. Look how many people build a kit, use it for 3 months then sell on again to start another project.

You are, of course, quite correct in your comments that Kit builders often keep cars for a very short time once built. I think the reasons are complex but probably reflect the driving desire present in many builders to have another go because, if you are a Kit builder, building the next car is half the fun.

Whether that would change with rebodies I do not know: but what is certain is that overall costs will be a LOT cheaper, without IVA and overall heartache lowered substantially.

Anything that helps Kit car makers to survive currently is good news for the industry. I am hopeful that non IVA kit cars will keep the pot boiling whist the economy recovers. Could be a while IMHO.

[KDIcarmad]

Are the MX5 and MR2's real the only car that are suitable for re-body?

What about a 3 or 1 series BMW, or a hot hatch GTI?

I know the reason, put simple no one want to be the first to do something different. Why take a risk, when you know MR2 MX based ones are selling? Simple to be different and find new buyer.

[SystemParanoia]

if more cars were body and chassis we'd have way more choice!

[Nikolai]

KDIcarmad said:

Are the MX5 and MR2's real the only car that are suitable for re-body?

What about a 3 or 1 series BMW, or a hot hatch GTI?

I know the reason, put simple no one want to be the first to do something different. Why take a risk, when you know MR2 MX based ones are selling? Simple to be different and find new buyer.

As I said before, the only donor suitable for a rebody is the MX5. Everything else including the MR2 can only be used as a donor for a proper chassis and body kit, or a panel kit.

Panel kits for a hot hatch - thats just a body kit.. are we making some effort to keep this dicussion of kit cars away from the tuning and modifying scene? No reason why a kit manufacturer shouldn't make bodykits for normal cars but this is a kit car thread i.e. making a donor look like something else.

On a side note, this RX7 from RE Amemiya is stunning in my opinion - essentially a panel kit, but in the theme of the donor car just.


I think it'd be virtually impossible to make a new looking design from a hot hatch shell. The reason the mk3 MR2 is good for a donor car is that aside from the wheelbase and strut top height, you can pretty much do anything with it style wise (for a mid-engined design) and the only thing you'd need to incorporate is the nicely raked windscreen which should suit most retro or new sports car designs as it is.

Edited by Nikolai on Monday 23 April 20:36

Edited by Nikolai on Monday 23 April 20:44

[Nikolai]

fuoriserie said:

A retro inspired rebody on an new Mazda Mx5

ps this is what the letters W,T and F were invented for

Edited by Nikolai on Monday 23 April 20:35

[Pat H]

SystemParanoia said:

if more cars were body and chassis we'd have way more choice!

Yep.

There are a couple of 4x4 kits that recycle rotten Discoverys on a modified original chassis.

Beetles and Triumphs are now emerging classics and are getting too valuable to chop up, but I suppose that old kits like the GP Spyder, the beach buggies and the Triumph based stuff like Spartans are more viable than they have been for decades.

[KDIcarmad]

Pat H said:

Yep.

There are a couple of 4x4 kits that recycle rotten Discoverys on a modified original chassis.

Beetles and Triumphs are now emerging classics and are getting too valuable to chop up, but I suppose that old kits like the GP Spyder, the beach buggies and the Triumph based stuff like Spartans are more viable than they have been for decades.

Beetles and Triumphs emerging classics! Both the VW 1303 (never called a Beetle by VW) and Triumph Herald and its relate car are classic and have been so for many years.

I was amazed when just a year or so ago a new Herald based kit was offered. Any modern hatch will out handle them and has the power to leave them at lights. I see only one reason for using them as a donor, to get round IVA. I feel this is moving away from how to revive interest.

Edited by KDIcarmad on Tuesday 24th April 11:41

[Steffan]

KDIcarmad said:

Pat H said:

Yep.

There are a couple of 4x4 kits that recycle rotten Discoverys on a modified original chassis.

Beetles and Triumphs are now emerging classics and are getting too valuable to chop up, but I suppose that old kits like the GP Spyder, the beach buggies and the Triumph based stuff like Spartans are more viable than they have been for decades.

Beetles and Triumphs emerging classics! Both the VW 1303 (never called a Beetle by VW) and Triumph Herald and its relate car are classic and have been so for many years.

I was amazed when just a year or so ago a new Herald based kit was offered. Any modern hatch will out handle them and has the power to leave them at lights. I see only one reason for using them as a donor, to get round IVA. I feel this is moving away from how to revive interest.

Edited by KDIcarmad on Tuesday 24th April 11:41

Absolutely spot on post KDIcarmid.

I was equally astounded that a Kit car project was offered based on a 50 year old Herald design last year. The tuck under tendencies of the transverse spring was always a real lash up and to base a kit on this now seems madness to me. The snap back on the Hearald is as bad as my Dutton V8 and I will not drive that without fully independent rear suspension and LSD.

As you rightly say this kit can only be to avoid IVA. And it does seem to have worked. Those kits are selling.

But the Stuart Mills, MEV X5 in all its finery, with three different bodystyles, and a host of alternative finishes, screens etc, offers vastly better mechanics and handling. Different league to a Triumph completely.

The MX5 donor offers Twin Cam power, independent suspension all round, modern Disc brakes and so on, in fact a wholly better donor mechanics complete.

If I can finish the current kit cars I have (ten! am I nuts or what??) I will definitely buy an MEV X5 which is IMO head and shoulders better than any other kit currently on offer.

[dmulally]

Steffan, you have more cars than ex wives...just!

One thing I think that would be important is for a manufacturer to embrace the IVA process. To give their customers some peace of mind. I can only speak for myself that I enjoy the build and after a couple of laps round the block and it is sent to the back of the shed for me. Knowing I could build a car that is likely to pass easier than a bare chassis and a pat on the back would be an incentive.

[Steffan]

dmulally said:

Steffan, you have more cars than ex wives...just!

One thing I think that would be important is for a manufacturer to embrace the IVA process. To give their customers some peace of mind. I can only speak for myself that I enjoy the build and after a couple of laps round the block and it is sent to the back of the shed for me. Knowing I could build a car that is likely to pass easier than a bare chassis and a pat on the back would be an incentive.

A lot more cars than wives. However I have to be honest and say the wives have given me an awful lot of fun. Good though Kit Cars are, a really friendly woman is much better.

Regrettably I am doubtful that the ex wives share my rosy view of our relationships. I had a brilliant time with every one. No sure about the reciprocation.

Oh well, onward and upward!