Kit car industry and how to revive interest and sales
Discussion
xRIEx said:
Erm, you seem to have forgotten stuff that happened a week and a half ago, nevermind 24 years.
Indeed.So far as the UK is concerned, the Maastricht Treaty is just about to be torn up.
And the fact that old Duttons and Novas are worth a small fortune in the Benelux countries should tell you something about how easy it is to register new UK-manufactured kit cars over there, even while we're still part of the Union.
Dear Sir
I surtenly have not forgotten this Brexit vote ;D
I was actually touring the UK to try to convince all my UK friends to vote Leave.
See my debate with Equus in another tread ;D
To start with virtually nothing will chance for the next two years regarding those kinds of treaties.
Secondly it will never be outlawed to set up a company abroad.
I have set up and helped to set up companies all over the world to import and export kit and classic cars.
And I have nearly 50 years experience in that field.
I surtenly have not forgotten this Brexit vote ;D
I was actually touring the UK to try to convince all my UK friends to vote Leave.
See my debate with Equus in another tread ;D
To start with virtually nothing will chance for the next two years regarding those kinds of treaties.
Secondly it will never be outlawed to set up a company abroad.
I have set up and helped to set up companies all over the world to import and export kit and classic cars.
And I have nearly 50 years experience in that field.
Dear Equus
Hold your horses ;D
Never sell the bear'skin before one has killed the beast;D
Article 50 first has to be invoked.
And I do not see this happening this year.
And what about if the leftish newlabour party wins the next election and does not invoke article 50 ??
Or if the next new prime minister and parliament ignore the result of the referendum ??
Anyway anyone having trouble registering a kitcar on the continent can always contact me via pierrevervaeke@hotmail.com
Have registered more than 50cars in the last 20years I can most surently help.
Hold your horses ;D
Never sell the bear'skin before one has killed the beast;D
Article 50 first has to be invoked.
And I do not see this happening this year.
And what about if the leftish newlabour party wins the next election and does not invoke article 50 ??
Or if the next new prime minister and parliament ignore the result of the referendum ??
Anyway anyone having trouble registering a kitcar on the continent can always contact me via pierrevervaeke@hotmail.com
Have registered more than 50cars in the last 20years I can most surently help.
pierrevervaeke said:
To start with virtually nothing will chance for the next two years regarding those kinds of treaties.
Secondly it will never be outlawed to set up a company abroad.
I have set up and helped to set up companies all over the world to import and export kit and classic cars.
And I have nearly 50 years experience in that field.
To start with: two years is nothing in the grand scheme of things - companies *should* have 5- and 10-year business plans in place; they now need to be working out what they're going to change in anticipation of the next two years.Secondly it will never be outlawed to set up a company abroad.
I have set up and helped to set up companies all over the world to import and export kit and classic cars.
And I have nearly 50 years experience in that field.
Secondly: it doesn't matter if you can set up a company abroad or not, it is how those foreign companies trade with domestic companies. If it is less beneficial to trade with foreign companies, then there's no point in your 'loopholes'.
Nearly 50 years experience: the UK has been in the EEC/EC/EU for the last 43 years, so the experience you have is not necessarily going to be directly relevant.
pierrevervaeke said:
... it will never be outlawed to set up a company abroad.
I have set up and helped to set up companies all over the world to import and export kit and classic cars.
And I have nearly 50 years experience in that field.
Dear Pierre (I can continue being a patronising cocksocket for as long as you can I have set up and helped to set up companies all over the world to import and export kit and classic cars.
And I have nearly 50 years experience in that field.
),And how many people do you think would be foolish enough to hand over ownership of their car to a small, and usually financially unstable, UK company in the hope that they can continue to enjoy it by leasing it back, in the current circumstances?
The fact that it will not be outlawed to set up a company abroad is meaningless. More relevantly, the terms on which UK registered cars can be used on European roads are very uncertain indeed at present.
A long time ago, I sold one of my old kit cars to a guy from Holland: he told me at the time that he would have to return the car to the UK once a year, to get it MOT'd. Hardly an appealing prospect or a minor inconvenience for most owners.
You tell us that you have purchased 36 kit cars over thirty years, under a much more favourable trading agreement than is likely to exist in a couple of years time.
Do you seriously consider that the potential for one or two extra sales per year is worth the cost and complexity of undertaking Europe-wide marketing and meeting EU legislative requirements for the average UK kit car company?
Westfield, as pretty much the biggest player in the market, have made that effort in the past and have profited precious little by it: I confidently predict that they'll withdraw from the European market shortly (if they don't withdraw from kit car manufacture altogether, first).
Any other UK kit manufacturer would need to be idiots of monumental proportions to even think about embarking on such a strategy at present.
pierrevervaeke said:
Article 50 first has to be invoked.
And I do not see this happening this year.
And what about if the leftish newlabour party wins the next election and does not invoke article 50 ??
Or if the next new prime minister and parliament ignore the result of the referendum ??.
Dear Pierre,And I do not see this happening this year.
And what about if the leftish newlabour party wins the next election and does not invoke article 50 ??
Or if the next new prime minister and parliament ignore the result of the referendum ??.
I sincerely hope that one of these things comes to pass; as you will have guessed from our previous discussions, I voted 'in' and am not at all happy at the prospect of leaving Europe. Whereas you seem to have changed your tune and are now hoping that we won't do the very same thing that just a few weeks ago you were imploring that we should:
pierrevervaeke said:
To all my british friends in the kitcar trade and the automotive business
And to all who it may concern
If you want to keep the NHS please vote for a Brexit
Because the EU is all about privatisation and liberalisation.
If you want to keep your state schools and colleges please vote for a Brexit
Because privatisation of the education system will sooner than later be on the EU agenda
And if you want to keep your agriculture/farms please vote for a Brexit because sooner or later this TTIP or another agreement just like it will put all our European farmers out of business simply because we can not and never will be able to compete with the big american corporations involved in agriculture and farming.
Do not forget EU burocrats are not elected.
And most of them serve on the board of the big boys.
In fact most of them are "Fin de carriere" "end of career" national politicians who have nothing to lose.
Why am I taking these points of view ?
Simply because I have first hand experience of EU working as an entrepreneur and also as a former kitcar builder/importer/exporter.
See Steve Holes excellent book A-Z of kitcars Cursor bottom of page 63
Anyone who wants to discuss these points of view further can always mail me at pierrevervaeke at hotmail.com
Would I be stupid enough to base a business strategy on the hope that we might remain, directly against the democratic wishes of the UK electorate?And to all who it may concern
If you want to keep the NHS please vote for a Brexit
Because the EU is all about privatisation and liberalisation.
If you want to keep your state schools and colleges please vote for a Brexit
Because privatisation of the education system will sooner than later be on the EU agenda
And if you want to keep your agriculture/farms please vote for a Brexit because sooner or later this TTIP or another agreement just like it will put all our European farmers out of business simply because we can not and never will be able to compete with the big american corporations involved in agriculture and farming.
Do not forget EU burocrats are not elected.
And most of them serve on the board of the big boys.
In fact most of them are "Fin de carriere" "end of career" national politicians who have nothing to lose.
Why am I taking these points of view ?
Simply because I have first hand experience of EU working as an entrepreneur and also as a former kitcar builder/importer/exporter.
See Steve Holes excellent book A-Z of kitcars Cursor bottom of page 63
Anyone who wants to discuss these points of view further can always mail me at pierrevervaeke at hotmail.com
Would I hell...
Dear Equus
No I have not at all changed my tune.
I am just following your newsbulletins/media which suggest that everything is still in the balance.
And rest assured I do understand and I respect why you have reasons to vote in.
But what about if the next governement whoever it is,was intelligent and clever enough to abolish company tax and introduce Land Value Tax instead.
And in the mean time turn the UK into the innovation/venture/finance capital of Europe/the world
An idea whose time has come.
Companies from all over the planet are in the starting blocks.
You aint seen nothing yet.
No I have not at all changed my tune.
I am just following your newsbulletins/media which suggest that everything is still in the balance.
And rest assured I do understand and I respect why you have reasons to vote in.
But what about if the next governement whoever it is,was intelligent and clever enough to abolish company tax and introduce Land Value Tax instead.
And in the mean time turn the UK into the innovation/venture/finance capital of Europe/the world
An idea whose time has come.
Companies from all over the planet are in the starting blocks.
You aint seen nothing yet.
Dear Sir
Let me tell you a fact of real life.
It is not politicians who set policies.
It is thinkthanks.
Politicians are just the salesmen and women the elite, the 1 percenters have put in place to make their fortune grow.
And here is another fact of life.
Do you know the difference between an intelligent lifeform and an idiot ?
A couple of million.
Let me tell you a fact of real life.
It is not politicians who set policies.
It is thinkthanks.
Politicians are just the salesmen and women the elite, the 1 percenters have put in place to make their fortune grow.
And here is another fact of life.
Do you know the difference between an intelligent lifeform and an idiot ?
A couple of million.
pierrevervaeke said:
But what about if the next governement whoever it is,was intelligent and clever enough to abolish company tax and introduce Land Value Tax instead.
Dear Pierre,Then our existing housing crisis would go supernova as a result of the ensuing shortage of development land, and the Government would go bankrupt as a result of lost revenue.
But what has that got to do with the revival of the kit car industry?
Utterly barking. Just smile and nod at the loony, guys... smile and nod...
Dear Equus
Yes I agree this political debate has nothing to do with the revival of the kitcar market.
But let me tell you something which does have something to do with the revival of the kitcar market.
You said that Westfield tryed cracking the European market ?
Well one of my friends send a letter to a respected kitcar company,he wrote them five letters each in another language asking for more information which was not available on the website.
Do you think he got a response ?
John Kox from www.daxbenelux.com sells a least a new dozen kits a year and a least a dozen secondhand cars a year mainly into Holland.
Image having a firstclass operation like that in every country in Europe ?
Yes I agree this political debate has nothing to do with the revival of the kitcar market.
But let me tell you something which does have something to do with the revival of the kitcar market.
You said that Westfield tryed cracking the European market ?
Well one of my friends send a letter to a respected kitcar company,he wrote them five letters each in another language asking for more information which was not available on the website.
Do you think he got a response ?
John Kox from www.daxbenelux.com sells a least a new dozen kits a year and a least a dozen secondhand cars a year mainly into Holland.
Image having a firstclass operation like that in every country in Europe ?
pierrevervaeke said:
Well one of my friends send a letter to a respected kitcar company,he wrote them five letters each in another language
Dear Pierre,Why doesn't it surprise me that he is one of your friends?
If some nutter wrote me five letters in five separate languages, I think I'd probably ignore them, too.
Tell him to try cutting the words out of newspapers (assuming he's allowed scissors) instead of using crayons, next time.
pierrevervaeke said:
Image having a firstclass operation like that in every country in Europe ?
Dear Pierre,Imagine the cost of establishing and managing a firstclass marketing operation in every country in Europe, for the sake of a dozen sales per year.
But I think we've acknowledged that we lack your 'imagination': sadly, most of us live in the real world.
Run along now; I'm sure it must be time for your evening medication?
smile and nod.... smile and nod
Dear Equus
John Kox started www.daxbenelux.com more than 25 years ago as a parttime business together with his sister.
And I respect him because through offering superior building advice and services he build the number one kitcar business in 200 miles around.
We became friends through bumping into each other on kitcar and motorshows etc.
His new showroom would put 99 percent of UK manufacturers to shame.
At no cost to the UK manufacturers he represents.
He is living proof that building and selling and registering kitcars on the continent is a very lucrative business.
John Kox started www.daxbenelux.com more than 25 years ago as a parttime business together with his sister.
And I respect him because through offering superior building advice and services he build the number one kitcar business in 200 miles around.
We became friends through bumping into each other on kitcar and motorshows etc.
His new showroom would put 99 percent of UK manufacturers to shame.
At no cost to the UK manufacturers he represents.
He is living proof that building and selling and registering kitcars on the continent is a very lucrative business.
pierrevervaeke said:
More than 250 satisfied clients can not be wrong.
Dear Pierre,Wow, as many as that in 25 years?
That's almost as many as Westfield sell in a year in the UK, (now that their market has collapsed).
Or is that just the satisfied clients?
It's to be hoped he has a stock of very comprehensive kits of the Rush, as by all accounts from people who are building them over here, supply of components from the factory is becoming problematical.
cymtriks said:
I'm genuinely sorry to post this, but I think the kit car market is dead.
Back in the days when Marcos and Ginetta were doing well there was a huge number of people that maintained their own cars. I'm not talking about just changing the oil, I'm talking about engine out jobs, the works. Mending things, as opposed to just buying a new one, was very common and extended to just about every kind of home appliance. Mechanical hobbies were much more common. In a society like that there are plenty of people that might want to build a kit car, especially if the mass manufacturers are concentrating on churning out Morris Marinas.
Today the situation is completely different. I recently spoke to a fifteen year old who wanted to be an engineer. I asked him if he could draw a cross section of a car engine, he hadn't a clue. Now at that age I could have drawn a basic cross section of a petrol engine, a steam engine, an electric motor, a jet engine and a rocket. Kids today just don't see that as engineering, to them engineering is an App. There are plenty of cars that are insanely fast by the standard that I grew up with. There are plenty of second hand sportscars as well.
Add to that the spiraling expectations. The generation coming into the market will be genuinely flummoxed by the very idea of a car not having air-con, a radio as standard, ABS and electric windows.
I just can't see kit cars being anything other than increasingly niche, to the point where they are effectively extinct.
I have to agree with you and feel that your analysis is valid also for continental Europe as the younger generations are less interested in getting their hands dirty than the older, eventhough I've found a few exeptions...maybe creating something simpler to put together might be an idea( IKEA idea...), but cars aren't' that simple !Back in the days when Marcos and Ginetta were doing well there was a huge number of people that maintained their own cars. I'm not talking about just changing the oil, I'm talking about engine out jobs, the works. Mending things, as opposed to just buying a new one, was very common and extended to just about every kind of home appliance. Mechanical hobbies were much more common. In a society like that there are plenty of people that might want to build a kit car, especially if the mass manufacturers are concentrating on churning out Morris Marinas.
Today the situation is completely different. I recently spoke to a fifteen year old who wanted to be an engineer. I asked him if he could draw a cross section of a car engine, he hadn't a clue. Now at that age I could have drawn a basic cross section of a petrol engine, a steam engine, an electric motor, a jet engine and a rocket. Kids today just don't see that as engineering, to them engineering is an App. There are plenty of cars that are insanely fast by the standard that I grew up with. There are plenty of second hand sportscars as well.
Add to that the spiraling expectations. The generation coming into the market will be genuinely flummoxed by the very idea of a car not having air-con, a radio as standard, ABS and electric windows.
I just can't see kit cars being anything other than increasingly niche, to the point where they are effectively extinct.
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